May 2025 Wrestling Talk

[SovietShooter]

Back in the day, I had my fair share of creepy male fans that would send me msgs on AIM offering to purchase my used ring gear if I were to satisfy myself in it before I sent it out.

I don't think this creepy behavior has anything to do with Covid lockdowns or anything, but I do think it has to do with the proliferation of the Internet and other platforms, where kids can just stay at home all day staring at a device, and not have to make friends, or deal with people making fun of them. I think we can all agree that "bullying" is wrong, but there is some value in kids making fun of kids doing weird shit, so that they stop doing weird shit.

[Ramo2653]

21 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

I almost made a post a few weeks ago thanking everyone here for not being (at least outwardly) joshi perverts. I joined a discord server about wrestling because it seemed to focus more on worldwide stuff. The Japan section is all dudes just being weird. Not outwardly saying things but posting pictures constantly with no context and posting meet and greet photos with comments about how much bigger they are than the joshi and stuff. It all made me very skeeved out. I know this board had some questionable members at one point and some questionable subforums but I'm glad we've moved to the point we are now. 

I'm not saying liking women's wrestling is wrong. I appreciate the joshi thread here because I wouldn't know anything about joshi currently without it. 

DZ was notorious for just posting pictures of women wrestlers with no comments on the board. I assume a mod gave them a warning.

20 hours ago, odessasteps said:

the question is: is creepily obsessing over wrestling personalities better or worse than creepily obsessive over fictional characters (your superhero women, for example)? 

This makes me think about the Brie Larson tweet where she took a picture with a guy who had seen the Captain Marvel film some insane amount of times and she looked a little terrified in the picture.

But then we have Auska being harassed online and in person. And people finding Rhea Ripley's home address and sending her stuff. And the infamous Sasha/Mone airport fan picture.

In general about wrestling fans being a little off, most people I mention to that I watch wrestling are whatever about it, I have one friend that just hates wrestling and freaks out when I mention that I'm watching it. And a few that are fans so we can geek out about it.

I do remember meeting up with some friends who came into town for the yearly anime convention and I met up with them at night since they were having a hotel party and someone mentioned that I was a wrestling fan and a guy who looks like the stereotypical internet wrestling fan was talking to me and then tried to quiz me about wrestling and I just rattled off a bunch of wrestlers and matches and promotions and he kinda freaked out since he wasn't familiar with it. Like yeah bro just because you're watching NXT in 2015 doesn't make you the ultimate fan, try tape trading or looking for Megaupload links of DragonGate Infinity episodes before you try to quiz me. 

[AxB]

It's one of the things that is kind of unique to wrestling, the whole "Person who has only ever watched WWF/WWE and thinks that makes them knowledgeable". In most other fields, that can't really happen. If someone knows a lot about Taylor Swift, they don't think that means they know the entire history of popular music. If someone knows a lot about one NFL team, they don't consider themselves an expert on all sports internationally. But there is a class of obsessive WWE fan that thinks of themselves as a living encyclopedia of Pro-Wrestling, but would be utterly nonplussed at the suggestion that Io Shirai has a sister who also wrestles.

[Log]

I'm of the opinion that gatekeeping is not always a bad thing.

[Technico Support]

On the “loneliness epidemic” thing…I don’t know, man.  I think the male loneliness/incel (“male loneliness” taken to its extreme) thing and the apparent rise of mental illness and/or conspiracy culture, both of which are mentioned in this thread, are just things that always existed but were given greater voice and power by the rise of the internet.  Like, we always had sad guys angry because they couldn’t get a girlfriend and we always knew that kooky dude who wrote nutty letters to your local paper.  But now they have a megaphone and a way to gather, organize, and discuss their gripes, persecution complexes, and general anger at a system they perceive to be against them.  So this stuff just spreads because the hardcores infect the more normal but maybe slightly affected people in these circles.  And that’s not even taking into consideration the fuel that bad actors throw on the fire just to drive us all apart.  So yeah, I blame the Internet.  This is kind of a half-baked idea that I’ve been kicking around, so I apologize if it’s a little out there or not fully realized.

[supremebve]

16 minutes ago, AxB said:

It's one of the things that is kind of unique to wrestling, the whole "Person who has only ever watched WWF/WWE and thinks that makes them knowledgeable". In most other fields, that can't really happen. If someone knows a lot about Taylor Swift, they don't think that means they know the entire history of popular music. If someone knows a lot about one NFL team, they don't consider themselves an expert on all sports internationally. But there is a class of obsessive WWE fan that thinks of themselves as a living encyclopedia of Pro-Wrestling, but would be utterly nonplussed at the suggestion that Io Shirai has a sister who also wrestles.

I'm the kind of person who loves minutiae and I dive super deep into most of my interests.  I have a really hard time with what you are describing here.  I really have this issue when people want to talk about music, because we are probably not talking about the same things.  I'm much more interested in talking about the random song being sampled in your favorite current song than your favorite song.  Not that I don't listen to some current music, but I don't really have much to say about most of it.  My wrestling consumption is almost exclusively old ass matches from some place far the fuck away.  I watched Wrestlemania, but my thoughts were mostly about how I really wished it was more about the wrestling.  I don't want to be the guy shitting on people's happiness, but I honestly don't find it interesting to talk to the average fan of anything.  I'm not a better fan than anyone, but I'm a far different fan than most people.  

 

10 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

On the “loneliness epidemic” thing…I don’t know, man.  I think the male loneliness/incel (“male loneliness” taken to its extreme) thing and the apparent rise of mental illness and/or conspiracy culture, both of which are mentioned in this thread, are just things that always existed but were given greater voice and power by the rise of the internet.  Like, we always had sad guys angry because they couldn’t get a girlfriend and we always knew that kooky dude who wrote nutty letters to your local paper.  But now they have a megaphone and a way to gather, organize, and discuss their gripes, persecution complexes, and general anger at a system they perceive to be against them.  So this stuff just spreads because the hardcores infect the more normal but maybe slightly affected people in these circles.  And that’s not even taking into consideration the fuel that bad actors throw on the fire just to drive us all apart.  So yeah, I blame the Internet.  This is kind of a half-baked idea that I’ve been kicking around, so I apologize if it’s a little out there or not fully realized.

I agree with this, but I do feel like we have pretty much always viewed these people as fringe weirdos and ignored them, but now the fringe weirdos are now kind of in charge of a surprising amount of shit.

[Graham Crackers]

If we're sharing tales creepy wrestling fans in the wild I only have one because most of the wrestling fans I've encountered seemed normal enough. Fifteen or so years ago some friends and I were tabling at a comic book convention. I was sitting at the table working on a drawing of Rayo de Jalisco Jr. A guy walking past notices and is excited to talk about wrestling, which leads to him ranting about Hulk Hogan and Ultimate Warrior deserving to die because they're body guys who couldn't work. When a friend at the table said that the death penalty seemed a bit harsh for being bad at wrestling, this guy got visibly angry and doubled down on who in wrestling "deserved to die" and why.

[Hamhock]

44 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

So yeah, I blame the Internet.  This is kind of a half-baked idea that I’ve been kicking around, so I apologize if it’s a little out there or not fully realized.

No, I think you're on the right track - today's Internet is a terrible by-product of the original creation; for every site like this (and this truly is an exceptional discussion forum) there are a thousand loathsome counter-examples.

It's very depressing; I've spent literally my entire professional career in direct service of the Internet - for thirty years!

That's right, Dusty! My first job out of college was tech support for an ISP, and then ever since I've spent over a quarter-century producing/updating websites. That's hard times, daddy!

[zendragon]

6 hours ago, twiztor said:

the lockdowns only lasted for what? 5-6 months depending on circumstances? we're 5 years removed from that. i feel like this is something that people still point to (not singling you out @zendragon), while the vast majority of people, even younger, should have had the opportunity to move past this. i DO think the larger point is that younger people got REALLY used to not HAVING to go out, and their TikTok (and etc.) addiction only grew. 

i'm assuming this also plays into the so-called "loneliness epidemic" (i feel this is becoming too much of a catch-all also, but i digress). i haven't put a ton of thought into this, but when you get that immediate gratification of a dopamine hit every time someone hits that Like button, or when you're paying OnlyFans models for 1:1 interactions that seem genuine (despite being anything but), then i can see how you would feel like dating or maintaining IRL friendships or social gatherings are a lot of work for little reward. This is a major societal issue and the pandemic/lockdowns definitely fast-tracked it, but we're doing fuck all to neutralize it.

(i typed all this out and then realized that the monthly wrestling thread probably isn't the place for this)

Well the hardcore lockdowns yes, but then you also had a period (depending location) after that of social distancing and masking where things like concerts hadn't really started up. So even if the whole thing was 12-18 months that's a long time for teenager who's still developing.

one point to the "loneliness epidemic" is just how much a lot of us are working. I mean I don't have time to join a bowling league or play darts at the elks lodge.

5 hours ago, Mister TV said:

What would Vince have "bought out" from The Sheik? The Detroit territory stopped running shows in 1980 and I think hadn't run Cobo and lost TV in maybe 1977. 

They did have a meeting at one point. Its lost to history what was discussed, but we know Vince made offers to Verne and Ole so I'd guess maybe he wanted Sheik to be his guy in the area?

[Log]

23 minutes ago, supremebve said:

I don't want to be the guy shitting on people's happiness, but I honestly don't find it interesting to talk to the average fan of anything.  I'm not a better fan than anyone, but I'm a far different fan than most people. 

This is me, too. My tastes aren't obscure or even that interesting, but they're my tastes.

[supremebve]

10 minutes ago, zendragon said:

one point to the "loneliness epidemic" is just how much a lot of us are working. I mean I don't have time to join a bowling league or play darts at the elks lodge.

This is getting closer to the actual issue.  The loneliness epidemic isn't actually about loneliness, it's about lack of community.  Without getting into whether or not there is a God, there is a reason why religion has always been so widespread.  It is a shared experience among people who would normally be strangers.  Its also why gangs exist in almost every community that is marginalized.  People are social animals who need a feeling of belonging.  The issue isn't loneliness, it's people realizing that some of the places lonely people find community is giving voice to all types of problematic ideas.  We didn't get to the point where people are all of a sudden more accepting of fringe political ideas on accident.  We will always have people seeking community, but with the downfall of churches, social clubs, recreational sports, etc., more and more of these people are sitting in their home and being adopted by the darkest corners of the internet.  There is a guy on Instagram who talks about civil engineering and how building a country's infrastructure around cars is bad for almost every part of our society.   It means everything is a little further away, you don't really know your neighbors, walking takes longer and is more dangerous, businesses don't get random walk-ins from pedestrians, and there are fewer shared spaces where people congregate.  The loneliness epidemic in the United States is less about people being lonely and much more about our society disregarding the needs of the people within the society.  We're all connected by things that don't actually build connection.  We have all chosen sides on every issue without ever even considering the other side, because we probably don't even know those people.  We're all dug into our particular bunkers listening to our particular brand of propaganda.  It would probably be better if we all went outside and talked to real people, but every day that gets harder and harder to do.  

[Technico Support]

People don't even leave their houses to spend time in their communities, either.  Every community is now a "bedroom community."  I just got back from running for an hour and a half, mostly through residential areas, late afternoon, and I could count the number of people out and about on one hand.

Edited May 20, 2025 by Technico Support

[Ziggy]

11 hours ago, zendragon said:

Sabu wanted his Uncle but Vince said no. Makes me wonder if there's some truth to Vince not liking the Sheik after what ever happened when Vince offered to buy him out (and supposedly offered him a job like he did to Ole)

In Sheiks book that is brought up but according to Sabu,  Vince really wanted to sign him. Vince would have let him use The Sheik if that's what it took too get Sabu to sign but Sabu already had it in his mind he wasn't signing. Plus JJ Dillon was friends with The Sheik too. Im sure there was enough agents familiar with him and would have loved to have him on the road like they did Afa at the time.

Sabu and the Sheik as a package would have fit those early years of Raw more than the Iron Sheik. Sure Iron Sheik had more history with WWF but fans didn't want to see people from Rock n Wrestling era on TV in '93 - '94.

Other than Vince's weird obsession with having Backlund and Iron Sheik aligned, I don't see the point in using Iron Sheik at that time. 

I think having The Sheik with Sabu would have saved him from any type of cartoonishness that Vince would have added to his gimmick plus I don't even think Vince would have been able control him at times.

 

Edited May 20, 2025 by Ziggy

[Curt McGirt]

Bringing up Sheiky Baby brings up another big sticking point both of those guys probably had with Vince. 

[zendragon]

Sheiky baby is up there with Golddust and Jannetty for most times hired and fired though

[twiztor]

would Vince allow him to be called "the Sheik" tho? i mean, this is the guy that wouldn't allow Shane Helm on TV under that name because there was already a Shane. And worried that people might confuse Steve Austin with Steven Regal.

[SovietShooter]

37 minutes ago, twiztor said:

would Vince allow him to be called "the Sheik" tho?

FWIW, VKM had no issues forcing Iron Sheik to become Colonel Mustafa during the Gulf War, so I can see anything being on the table to a certain extent. I think the real question is if Sheik would be interested if he couldn't be "The Sheik”?  Maybe they compromise and he is something like the "Grand Sheik of Arabay" or something like that?

[odessasteps]

He also made the Iranian wrestling champion become an Iraqi. 

[username]

The Shiek was pushing 50 and way broken down when this had to have come up, at that point for one last big run/paycheck there is a good chance you could have called him anything not absurdly insulting and he'd have swallowed it. Given it is Vince there is at least a... 30% chance it wouldn't have been too insulting >_>

[Curt McGirt]

Funny, the next Dark Side episode is gonna be Muhammad Hassan.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

I've fallen way behind on DSOTR, mainly due to Yankees games. I need to do some kind of binge watch one of these days. 

[Curt McGirt]

Man you need to be careful with the Daffney one that just aired. I'm just saying. I cried through the whole thing. I also learned a ton of stuff and I'm really glad I watched it, but it's devastating. 

They replay a bunch of them every time there's a new one coming, so there's that.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

4 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

Man you need to be careful with the Daffney one that just aired. I'm just saying. I cried through the whole thing. I also learned a ton of stuff and I'm really glad I watched it, but it's devastating. 

They replay a bunch of them every time there's a new one coming, so there's that.

The Daffney episode comes on again at midnight, so I'll give it a shot. 

[zendragon]

Also they are OnDemand if you have Dish

[zendragon]

20 hours ago, SovietShooter said:

Back in the day, I had my fair share of creepy male fans that would send me msgs on AIM offering to purchase my used ring gear if I were to satisfy myself in it before I sent it out.

I don't think this creepy behavior has anything to do with Covid lockdowns or anything, but I do think it has to do with the proliferation of the Internet and other platforms, where kids can just stay at home all day staring at a device, and not have to make friends, or deal with people making fun of them. I think we can all agree that "bullying" is wrong, but there is some value in kids making fun of kids doing weird shit, so that they stop doing weird shit.

https://www.msnbc.com/all-in/watch/-your-body-my-choice-women-enraged-by-emboldened-maga-misogynists-223996485867

This is from after the election where Your Body, My Choice went viral. Chris Hayes talking about him being worried about his young son hearing this.

The other day I was listening to a podcast where a teen was creating deep fake nudes of classmates and posting them. One of the cops was quotes as saying he worried about this behavior being normalized. (he also mentioned having a young) I do think there are some societal issue with certain problematic behavior being normalized