Curt McGirt Posted March 21 Posted March 21 (edited) I've definitely fallen way way way off the MMA bandwagon over the last decade+ having watched UFC since the beginning, but man did Dark Side of the Cage push that over the edge. I never knew about the War Machine stuff and that was literally the craziest shit ever. There's Dana grinning on camera saying "we won't have a women's division ever". There's known psycho Matt Hughes, who I believe admitted to torturing animals as a kid, going under the cage to pinpoint where the pins holding the ring up were so he could slam people on them. If you look at the rest of these assholes like Covington or Jon Jones it's clear they got a show as long-running as Dark Side of the Ring. Edited March 21 by Curt McGirt
Cobra Commander Posted March 21 Posted March 21 7 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: I never knew about the Warmaster stuff and that was literally the craziest shit ever I had to double check to make sure you weren't referring to War Machine (nah, you weren't)... so, is it possible that every MMA fighter using that sort of nickname is a bit out there (or worse)
supremebve Posted March 21 Posted March 21 11 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said: I propose that we buy a failing, uninsurable condo in Florida and then run Game of Death-style fight competitions in that sucker. We'd make so much money, folks. There have been multiple UFC PPV headliners who started out fighting in boatyards in Miami. This isn't even a new concept. 1
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21 Posted March 21 14 minutes ago, SirSmUgly said: I propose that we buy a failing, uninsurable condo in Florida and then run Game of Death-style fight competitions in that sucker. We'd make so much money, folks. It's easy to make fun of Florida, but literally Arizona or a tribal reservation in Arizona let HIV positive Tommy Morrison have a bout. Morrison had been HIV positive for 11 years at that point. This was only like 18 years ago. Florida has not had the regulatory issues even compared to like Texas where Bellator shopped to get Kimbo regulated when he was having his issues. Back when Dickie Cole was running Texas (the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation), a literal dead man could fight there. As well as Nevada has been ran/run, they've had countless issues over the last 30-40 years. Florida AFAIK only really had the Fallon Fox stuff and that was cause the MMA promotion Fallon Fox fought for was based in Dade County/south Florida. Even that is more philosophical issue that even being discussed to this very day and less to do with the actual state regulation. It was the first time a state had been confronted with that issue so it's hard to fault them for how it was handled. Florida, surprisingly, is probably one of the least problematic major commissions. The state just happens to be governed by a shithead. 1
supremebve Posted March 21 Posted March 21 15 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said: If you look at the rest of these assholes like Covington or Jon Jones it's clear they got a show as long-running as Dark Side of the Ring. The fact that these two were college roommates has always been one of the crazier MMA coincidences. I really wonder who else stayed in that room, because it has to have an aura of assholery that no amount of cleaning will ever remove. 1
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21 Posted March 21 4 minutes ago, supremebve said: The fact that these two were college roommates has always been one of the crazier MMA coincidences. I really wonder who else stayed in that room, because it has to have an aura of assholery that no amount of cleaning will ever remove. To be fair, they weren't those guys we know them as until MUCH, MUCH later. Colby fought in the UFC for what 2-3 years before he became the Colby Covington we know him as? This ain't the same as like say Jesse Reid, a boxing trainer of some renown thoughout the 80s and 90s, training BOTH Roger Mayweather back when was the Black Mamba AND Johnny Tapia who himself was fresh off his layoff and extended hiatus from being wild and cocaine binges. Reid must be some type of crazy motherfucker whisperer. That's incongruous with Reid being perhaps most famous for training Orlando Canizales, probably the least problematic fighter of all time and outside the ring was a park ranger.
SirSmUgly Posted March 21 Posted March 21 (edited) 58 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: It's easy to make fun of Florida, but literally Arizona or a tribal reservation in Arizona let HIV positive Tommy Morrison have a bout. Morrison had been HIV positive for 11 years at that point. This was only like 18 years ago. Florida has not had the regulatory issues even compared to like Texas where Bellator shopped to get Kimbo regulated when he was having his issues. Back when Dickie Cole was running Texas (the Texas Department of Licensing and Regulation), a literal dead man could fight there. As well as Nevada has been ran/run, they've had countless issues over the last 30-40 years. Florida AFAIK only really had the Fallon Fox stuff and that was cause the MMA promotion Fallon Fox fought for was based in Dade County/south Florida. Even that is more philosophical issue that even being discussed to this very day and less to do with the actual state regulation. It was the first time a state had been confronted with that issue so it's hard to fault them for how it was handled. Florida, surprisingly, is probably one of the least problematic major commissions. The state just happens to be governed by a shithead. Maricopa County is as Wild West as you can get. "I'll build it/run it/do it on tribal land" is a regular shady businessman approach down that way, whether it's realistic or not. Edited March 21 by SirSmUgly
Curt McGirt Posted March 21 Posted March 21 (edited) 43 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said: I had to double check to make sure you weren't referring to War Machine (nah, you weren't)... so, is it possible that every MMA fighter using that sort of nickname is a bit out there (or worse) Oh, crap. I would never want to besmirch the good name of the man who comes out to Bolt Thrower. My apologies. (And yes I was referring to War Machine. They gave him a whole episode because... well, he's a psycho who deserves to be under the jail.) Speaking of which, his match on that New Year's DREAM show against Hideki Suzuki is still a favorite. The announcers didn't even know how to call a powerbomb but Josh destroyed him with one. (This is also the show where Inoki came out as Jesus!) Edited March 21 by Curt McGirt
supremebve Posted March 21 Posted March 21 4 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: To be fair, they weren't those guys we know them as until MUCH, MUCH later. Colby fought in the UFC for what 2-3 years before he became the Colby Covington we know him as? Neither of those dudes would have been at Iowa Central Community College if they weren't both batshit fucking crazy. I know that Iowa Central is a great program at that level, but both Jones and Covington were better than JUCO wrestlers. It's like Antonio Brown going to Central Michigan. Talent of that level doesn't end up there without a story. 2
Zimbra Posted March 21 Posted March 21 16 minutes ago, supremebve said: Neither of those dudes would have been at Iowa Central Community College if they weren't both batshit fucking crazy. I know that Iowa Central is a great program at that level, but both Jones and Covington were better than JUCO wrestlers. It's like Antonio Brown going to Central Michigan. Talent of that level doesn't end up there without a story. Also how Stephen Jackson got drafted out of Butler County Junior College.
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21 Posted March 21 41 minutes ago, supremebve said: Neither of those dudes would have been at Iowa Central Community College if they weren't both batshit fucking crazy. I know that Iowa Central is a great program at that level, but both Jones and Covington were better than JUCO wrestlers. It's like Antonio Brown going to Central Michigan. Talent of that level doesn't end up there without a story. To be fair to AB, those dudes weren't in amateur wrestling what AB was in football or like Cam Newton going to Blinn after the stuff at Florida. Also, some of those JUCOs (IIRC Lassen is one of others) were like a farm system for the D1 level wrestling. It wasn't just guys with bad backgrounds. Anyway, the point remains: who knew Colby or Jon were like they were until EVERYONE found out? TBH they only way I knew slightly beforehand about Jon is third hand knowledge from sprewell rimz, who knew someone in the MMA media who was sort of familiar with Jon during his college days. That's it. Even with Jon, it's more a Tiger Woods thing where he was projecting one thing and it something entirely different. Colby? There was nary a peep about him prior to the MAGA parading stuff. And I doubt if Trump was a thing or if Chael hadn't drew up the formula, we would know in the first place. This version of the board goes back to what? 2014? Earlier? Search the board and see if anyone said anything about Colby Covington before 2016 and thereabouts. You won't find anything besides people talking about his potential as a prospect.
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21 Posted March 21 Also: Much of what Colby does seems to be an act, and I say that because you hardly ever hear from his coaches or training partners. I am not saying he's a good dude or anything, but like Daniel Valverde and Cesar Carneiro are pretty anonymous and MMA Masters sort of flies under the radar even though they've been a half decent gym for the best part of 15 years. They're probably best known before Colby as being the place where Amanda Nunes trained before she went to American Top Team. I believe that's also the place where she met her future wife, Nina Nunes (nee Ansaroff). It's not like trainers and training partners make money hand over fist. Moreover, there have been a bunch of guys who go gym to gym because people cannot fucking stand them. Granted, now that I think about it, Jon Jones save for a small stretch of time has always been with Jackson MMA after leaving Tamdan McCrory's gym in upstate NY where he's from and that was like 2008ish so YMMV on that take. Sidenote: Before there was Fighting Nerds, we had literal fighting nerds like Tamdan "The Barncat" McCrory and Dustin "McLovin" Hazlelett. Why are we outsourcing our good ole American nerdom to Brazil?
BobbyWhioux Posted March 21 Posted March 21 So...anyone still wanna talk about Davey Boy's suplex and what the actual point of him holding someone up there for so long was? (Monsoon & Ventura would put effort into establishing the idea that being upside down/bloodflow rushing to the brain was extra disorienting and uncomfortable and made the eventual landing rougher. So there was at least an attempt to rationalize the flourish)
Curt McGirt Posted March 21 Posted March 21 I always thought that was the reason, it was always explained as such. Whether it was Monsoon or somebody else I don't recall who I heard it from first.
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21 Posted March 21 You try to apply logic all the while later on in his career Davey Boy is doing flips just to show people he can do them.
supremebve Posted March 21 Posted March 21 53 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Also: Much of what Colby does seems to be an act, and I say that because you hardly ever hear from his coaches or training partners I don't remember who it was, but when I was listening to a bunch of MMA podcasts, an episode broke down Colby Covington's story. He's an ass. Apparently, he's been kicked out of schools, apartment complexes, and all types of other shit, because he kept getting in fights with people. For what it's worth, he was kicked out of American Top Team. Jon Jones has publicly said that Colby Covington is the worst human being he's ever met. I want to say that this is before the Dos Anjos fight when he was known, but not well known. And no conversation about moves that don't make sense based on already setting up a better move without talking about the Attitude Adjustment...on the Death Valley Driver board of all places.
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21 Posted March 21 The strangest stuff about Colby is the stuff with Kelsi Monroe. Mind you, this was during the height of the #MeToo movement. Bruh, I dunno if you want to be promoting that type of behavior. Thankfully, he just left that whole situation alone.
twiztor Posted March 21 Posted March 21 19 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said: You try to apply logic all the while later on in his career Davey Boy is doing flips just to show people he can do them. is DBS the Brian Cage of his generation? also, Colby's act is so transparent and one-note that it's so easy to brush off. At least with Chael, it was entertaining. That's not to say Colby's not a piece of shit (he is!), but him ratcheting up the MAGA nonsense out of the blue (err... red?) always just felt like an extreme example of pandering. 1
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21 Posted March 21 I stop short of saying Chael was entertaining especially seeing it in real time. But if you look at it as Chael doing an early heel Piper tribute act, I can see how someone can think of it as entertaining. I will say this though: Chael understanding the context of how promos work from being a wrestling fan allows his schtick to come off more polished. Colby also isn't a great speaker. He is a bit better than say a Henry Cejudo, but that is faint praise cause Henry is terrible and probably knows he is terrible. Colby is the equivalent of a guy in Danny Davis/Cornette era OVW or HWA or Deep South Wrestling under Jody Hamilton. Cejudo is that low level indie guy who probably shouldn't even be making a tape to send in for Tough Enough. He is that awful. 2
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21 Posted March 21 24 minutes ago, twiztor said: is DBS the Brian Cage of his generation? I am pretty sure there was a larger discussion here about this a couple years ago, but yes, he is. Guy who started out really small, got on the gas and got huge, and then a few years later returned as being even more gargantuan before drug testing forced him to at least look semi human. I watched the awesome, inaugural European title match between DBS and Owen last night, and you can tell he was motivated to show he wasn't the lazy stiff who needed to be carried that he had been at certain times during his latest stint in WWF. He always did the forward somersault flip when he was the showboating heel at the time, but in that match he was doing everything he had done much, much earlier in his career when he was smaller. It makes you wonder just like Scott Steiner during the early to mid 2000s before being that size slowed him down and injuries derailed him what his career would look like if Davey Boy could be a certain size and wrestle a style that was well ahead of its time. It seems like it was diminishing returns for the remaining part of his career after he left WWF in 1992 for the most part. 1
odessasteps Posted March 21 Posted March 21 It seems like a bunch of people did the long vertical suplex. Was Davey the guy who would also do knee bends while holding a guy in the vertical supLex position?
Elsalvajeloco Posted March 21 Posted March 21 5 minutes ago, odessasteps said: It seems like a bunch of people did the long vertical suplex. Was Davey the guy who would also do knee bends while holding a guy in the vertical supLex position? Oh, speaking of unsavory characters, did Michael Elgin steal that from him?
username Posted March 22 Posted March 22 12 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said: Also, speaking of good faith, if you had actually admitted, "you know what...I did tolerate a lot of this over the years prior to this...my bad" I would have never said anything to begin with. I feel like I literally said this in the post you are responding to, and looking back at my initial post while I named a specific thing I honestly don't get how one would read it as saying it's the only bad one... but fair enough. There was a lot of bad shit around UFC that I stomached for a long time, eventually it became too much for me, but I looked the other way for a while. I do honestly believe it is worse now, I did not consider that a particularly hot take.
BobbyWhioux Posted March 22 Posted March 22 6 hours ago, Curt McGirt said: I always thought that was the reason, it was always explained as such. Whether it was Monsoon or somebody else I don't recall who I heard it from first. I'd also have accepted the psychological attack of displaying that level of dominance/power superiority over your opponent (especially when Steiner adopted the move). Stunting on your opponent to humiliate them, like high stepping the last five yards into the endzone. (Or the first incarnation of The People's Elbow, really). But I don't recall hearing anyone take that angle with it. Alas. 1
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