March 2025 Wrestling Discussion

[Dolfan in NYC]

27 minutes ago, Ramo2653 said:

Regarding the comedian guy pissing off a wrestler, I'd assume him making a crack at any of the LGBTQIA+ wrestlers might get someone worked up or making a joke about any of the wrestlers in relationships. Like I can't see Montez taking jokes about Bianca well, or Jimmy and Naomi, Kaiser is my wildcard. 15 to 20 years ago, Orton would probably be my #1.

But I'm sure he'll get a list of stuff that's off limits and he doesn't want to mess up his sweet Netflix money.

The main issue with that is, I'm sure he'll have a couple of drinks beforehand and well, may not be able to help himself.  Remember this is the same guy who decided Madison Square Garden would be a great place to make fun of Puerto Ricans.  

There's a WHOLE lot of stuff that can get mentioned...  hell, didn't this board have an entire thread dedicated to that?  

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 hour ago, FourPostMassacre said:

Have they started actually paying people their worth yet or are people still getting like 10-20k for ppv fights? 

UFC doesn't really work on the traditional PPV model anymore. So as of the ESPN deal that was signed several years ago, UFC gets paid a flat rate whether the shows do 100,000 buys or 1 million buys. I forgot the breakdown, but they (UFC) get a decent fee for every number show they run regardless of how many buys. I am guessing it was based on the average PPV buys prior to signing the deal. Because it's on ESPN+, the numbers are mainly internal. I stopped tracking PPV buyrates like pre-pandemic cause no one is really reporting them. 

I think the boxing may be the only entity that still uses the PPV points model of numbers given by PPV distributors, which are very few and far between compared to the 1990s and 2000s. Even with boxing, some of the bigger fights recently are being shown on multiple platforms from Netflix to DAZN or ESPN+ PPV due to co-promotion. So that pie would be divided a bunch of ways if that model was still being utilized. Now that Turki Alalshikh has a big hand in boxing, the PPV numbers are basically irrelevant as it's funded the same way even if the shows aren't purchased in significant numbers.

In the documents from the class action lawsuit that just got settled, all the stars IIRC got paid well. Even then, based on sort of the legacy some of those fights left in terms of historical significance, they might have been underpaid in hindsight. UFC is largely living off the legacy of a bunch of big fights from 2006-2018ish just like WWE's value now can be largely attributed to a bunch of stuff between 1997-2012. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

Wasn't the Tom Brady roast on Netflix?

I feel like if anyone is involved in roast, you probably should have a feeling about what's coming. They've been happening for the better part of 60 or 70 years. Just don't show up. Call in sick. Do whatever to not be there.

[Elsalvajeloco]

Also, I have yet to see a roast with just one roaster.

This would mean OTHER wrestlers are going to be roasting each other.

So yeah, I would be less fearful of the actual comedian and more worried about the people who have to see each other on a semi regular basis and aren't versed on writing material. Moreover, I don't remember a bunch of confrontations happening because of roasts. There has been a whole lot of sitting there looking silly while you get verbally abused for minutes on end. A whole bunch of that.

[Technico Support]

1 hour ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Turki Alalshikh

Thank you for spelling this for me.  I know zilch about boxing and every time I hear Meltzer say his name, I think it's "Turkey a la Sheik," a Suadi version of chicken a la king.

[Mister TV]

29 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Also, I have yet to see a roast with just one roaster.

This would mean OTHER wrestlers are going to be roasting each other.

So yeah, I would be less fearful of the actual comedian and more worried about the people who have to see each other on a semi regular basis and aren't versed on writing material. Moreover, I don't remember a bunch of confrontations happening because of roasts. There has been a whole lot of sitting there looking silly while you get verbally abused for minutes on end. A whole bunch of that.

You don't think they'd script out everything the wrestlers will say?

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Thank you for spelling this for me.  I know zilch about boxing and every time I hear Meltzer say his name, I think it's "Turkey a la Sheik," a Suadi version of chicken a la king.

That reminds me now that he is trying to start up the boxing league with Dana and already has did shows with UFC, how much of the Saudi shows for WWE does he have a hand in, if any? Or is that someone else?

[Technico Support]

3 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

That reminds me now that he is trying to start up the boxing league with Dana and already has did shows with UFC, how much of the Saudi shows for WWE does he have a hand in, if any? Or is that someone else?

Nevermind, I misread your question.

Edited March 19 by Technico Support

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 minutes ago, Mister TV said:

You don't think they'd script out everything the wrestlers will say?

So if they can do that, why not do that for Comedian man? Or is he shooting, brotha? Also, why have a roast in the first place? Then, it'd just be called Raw.

[Elsalvajeloco]

17 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Nevermind, I misread your question.

No worries. I haven't heard him directly associated with WWE but if the Saudi shows are also his doing, that would make him the most powerful figure in combat sports (real and choreographed). Now that said, he hasn't been able to wrangle Tank Davis and Canelo yet but that won't stop him from trying. Both have told him pretty much, "Fuck you", which is refreshing.

Edit - One minor correction: Canelo did recently relent last month and signed a deal with Riyadh Season. It totally slipped my mind cause the first fight of deal set for 5/3 is sort of a teaser and not all that significant relative to some of his recent fights. So that leaves Tank as the lone holdout of the few box office draws in boxing.

[The Comedian]

32 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

So if they can do that, why not do that for Comedian man?

I shoot from the hip son

[SovietShooter]

21 hours ago, SirSmUgly said:

Seems like a risky move considering their main audience is different in demographic from UFC's. But what the hell do I know?

At the risk of pissing some folks off...

The "WWE Universe" seems to be the same sort of slackjawed audience that will believe whatever bullshit they are fed, and then will live and die by that as gospel - akin to your typical Fox News watching conservative that votes for leopards to eat their face.  I'm not saying that all "wrestling fans" are necessarily like that in the broader sense, (or implying that AEW fans are sophisticated educated progressives) but the WWE demographic certainly seems to be. I mean, they chanted "thank you Vince" when his rape accusations surfaced.

[SirSmUgly]

27 minutes ago, SovietShooter said:

At the risk of pissing some folks off...

The "WWE Universe" seems to be the same sort of slackjawed audience that will believe whatever bullshit they are fed, and then will live and die by that as gospel - akin to your typical Fox News watching conservative that votes for leopards to eat their face.  I'm not saying that all "wrestling fans" are necessarily like that in the broader sense, (or implying that AEW fans are sophisticated educated progressives) but the WWE demographic certainly seems to be. I mean, they chanted "thank you Vince" when his rape accusations surfaced.

Fair, but they also booed Hogan.

I guess the point is, to quote the great Syko Sid Vicious, I don't know shit. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

I think it may be a little tougher to get a read on the fanbases given they're not exactly cult status. The UFC fanbase at your average show (at least stateside cause a country like Brazil is a goddamn tossup) is paying crazy ticket prices compared to your average sports fan. So yeah, when Trump and various acolytes roll in, those dopes are going to go crazy. However, at the same time, I remember Bill Burr and his wife Nia who are both huge UFC fans trending for the entire night on Twitter/X a couple MSG shows ago cause in the background of Trump walking in, you can clearly see Nia flipping him off. So you got several hundred people who don't even watch UFC saying on social media, "you need to control your bitch, man/you cuck!". However, a lot of the UFC fans who actually watch the product don't really give a shit cause most of them a very much apolitical or they love a certain group of people flipping their shit over nothing. 

I don't think you can necessarily judge WWE's fans off of Vince getting cheered and Hogan getting booed. You're going to get the best and worst of both worlds. 

[odessasteps]

Some People, especially anti WWE folks online, definitely want to paint their fanbase as cult like these days. Ironic, since if I would describe either fan base that way, it would be the other company. But I think that’s overemphasizing the rabid/radical minority. 

[SirSmUgly]

People are just too fuckin' online, which really is where the "mindless zombie fan" stuff originates.

Well, except for DVDVR. This place isn't just the exception online, it is better described as exceptional. 

[SovietShooter]

1 hour ago, SirSmUgly said:

People are just too fuckin' online, which really is where the "mindless zombie fan" stuff originates.

Information overload. So much is available so easily that nothing is processed and digested anymore. It all just goes in and goes out, nothing is retained. It's a big reason why memes are so popular, IMHO; The image is the setup and the text the punchline, and nothing needs to be explained. Quick and easy, accuracy be damned.

[username]

23 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Wait....so you been watching the last 20 years (TUF season 1 was early 2005) but the last 2-3 years was the final straw? Wouldn't that be the equivalent of hearing some guy say a racial epithet like few hundred times and then deciding not to support that particular business? Otherwise, that metaphor doesn't work.

You seem unfamiliar with the last straw metaphor so... yes, that's how it works? Things build up over time, eventually it becomes too much?

TBF to be technical the last straw would theoretically be a slight thing that tips things over the edge, while deciding "hitler was a solid guy, the holocaust wasn't real, he just wanted to purify Germany of the jews who were ruining it by making people gay" is an "eh, what're you gonna do?" kinda situation is really more of a last giant branch or heavy rock. That just doesn't roll off the tongue that well and I'm not sure people would get it without explanation though.
 

I will try to be better at metaphors in the future.

[bobholly138]

On 3/18/2025 at 10:42 AM, worldcupfever said:

My only ballpark rasslin show featured Honky Tonk Man squashing someone and a main event with like 8 face/heel turns in a one-on-one match.

Mine was a Global Force Wrestling show up near Jackson.

All I remember was Luke Hawx got mad at his son Perry cause Perry was talking to a few folks that had left/been asked to leave Wildkat.

[Niners Fan in CT]

What would be the biggest UFC fight they could put out there these days?  I'm very out of the loop, not that I was ever super in the loop.  I assume it's a fight with Jon Jones and someone? 

Edited March 20 by Niners Fan in CT

[Elsalvajeloco]

6 hours ago, username said:

You seem unfamiliar with the last straw metaphor so... yes, that's how it works? Things build up over time, eventually it becomes too much?

Things build over time? So what Dana said about Loretta Hunt and Cris Cyborg respectively wasn't enough? That was fine. Rogan joking about Cyborg cutting off her penis didn't strike you as offensive? Jeremy Stephens literally saying the N word on twitter (and subsequently keeping his job), wasn't enough? Dana saying he won't punish Ronda over calling Cris Cyborg an "it", that wasn't enough? The various Conor McGregor things when he was actually fighting wasn't enough. The whole Chael Sonnen's bigoted disrespect for the Brazil, no? Years later, when Chael Jr. aka Colby Covington came around and his various antics didn't draw your ire? Holly Holm's weird connection to the unsubstantiated right wing conspiracy theory of kids being used for mysterious human trafficking and potentially alluding to kids in drag shows (to be fair to Holly, it seems like she didn't want to delve too much into the latter). 

I am literally combing over stuff from the last 15 years, and it's just too many things to bring up. Sidenote: Apparently, the comedian guy was involved in some of the Cris Cyborg stuff, so the WWE found a gem of a human being for their roast.

But you're the person, if you go to the bar and whatever venue you're patronizing and someone calls a person the N-word once, that's enough for you? Really? Ok, then.

6 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

What would be the biggest UFC fight they could put out there these days?  I'm very out of the loop, not that I was ever super in the loop.  I assume it's a fight with Jon Jones and someone? 

It was potentially Jon Jones vs. either Francis Ngannou or Alex Pereira. Ngannou obviously no longer fights for the UFC. Ngannou is basically kinda semi retired from MMA cause the company he did sign with a couple years ago, he has only fought once and they seem to be financially not very stable based on buying Bellator and then subsequently falling out with most of those fighters after failing to meet contractual obligations. He also tragically lost a child right after the debacle with Anthony Joshua prior to returning to that one MMA fight. I cannot really fault him for fighting whenever he wants to. If he chose to never fight again for any promotion, I wouldn't blame him. Pereira fought a couple weekends ago and lost in a competitive fight, but didn't look all that impressive. So basically it's Jones vs. Tom Aspinall, who has been pleading to fight Jon for the last year plus. IMO, they don't really have this one big fight beyond that. They have a few compelling fights between former or current champions, but that's pretty much it. 

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

13 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

I think it may be a little tougher to get a read on the fanbases given they're not exactly cult status. The UFC fanbase at your average show (at least stateside cause a country like Brazil is a goddamn tossup) is paying crazy ticket prices compared to your average sports fan. So yeah, when Trump and various acolytes roll in, those dopes are going to go crazy. However, at the same time, I remember Bill Burr and his wife Nia who are both huge UFC fans trending for the entire night on Twitter/X a couple MSG shows ago cause in the background of Trump walking in, you can clearly see Nia flipping him off. So you got several hundred people who don't even watch UFC saying on social media, "you need to control your bitch, man/you cuck!". However, a lot of the UFC fans who actually watch the product don't really give a shit cause most of them a very much apolitical or they love a certain group of people flipping their shit over nothing. 

I don't think you can necessarily judge WWE's fans off of Vince getting cheered and Hogan getting booed. You're going to get the best and worst of both worlds. 

I think, by and large, there is an unwillingness to accept nuanced thoughts and conversations as part of today’s discourse, and it more often comes from people who want to present a morality judgement to a group of people as a whole.

I also think people put way too much stock into trying to triangulate one thought into another, that if one person likes X they must also support Y, and therefore they are a Bad Person. I’m not really comfortable painting people with that broad of a brush.

[NikoBaltimore]

I don't know how rational or irrational this will be about Hinthcliffe but I'll just put it in spoilers.  Mini rant incoming:

Spoiler

I can say a lot about Tony Hinthcliffe but with things veering a bit political already I don't want to say too much.  I would ask that if you're not sure who he is look him up because WWE using him really, really pisses me off.  I don't care if it's all scripted, I don't care about "hands off" topics.  I don't even care if people like Zayn and Heyman have funny ways to mock him.  They're using a piece of shit and with how things are this won't be the last time.  Again, I don't have issue with those watching it but fuck WWE.  They don't get a cent from me and if I watch anything from them it's all through not-legal methods anymore because fuck them.

Oh, and for the record once Colby Covington started with his bullshit that's when I cut UFC for good.  I was on my way out anyway due to losing interest in the PPVs but that sealed it for me.  I still hate that motherfucker.

 

Edited March 20 by NikoBaltimore

[(BP)]

The people who watch that standup comic have more in common with things I’ve picked up on my shoe than with me. I’m quite comfortable saying they’re bad. That doesn’t make me “good.” After all, I’ve spent much of my life trying to intellectualize and artistically defend professional wrestling, which is a trashy pastime that attracts the lowest common denominator. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

Here is where I don't think WWE "going the way of the UFC" or w/e is something that can be accomplished: first off, the reason why UFC is in the place it's at is largely unintentionally. At least, from the beginning it definitely wasn't intentional. UFC, just like WWE, could do things for years and it just fly under the radar cause it's that silly cagefighting stuff just like what people thought of pro wrestling. A lot of things had to coalesce for it to happen where UFC can be this vessel or trojan horse for right wing politics. Something happened in sports where the white male demo of a certain age was funneled into UFC. I am guessing a lot of it has to do with sports no longer being the picture of the all-American white guy who would quarterback a cornerstone collegiate program or NFL franchise. I know in boxing that there hasn't been a major white American contender of any consequence in a minute, especially not in the heavyweight division. The only one that comes to mind in any division is Caleb Plant, and he just happens to be married to a black woman, keeps to himself, and doesn't really cater to the bro-ish fanbase that UFC has adopted. All the rest are from the former Soviet Union or the UK/Ireland. So if a white guy from the U.S. is gonna to have a career in a gladiatorial endeavor, it's either MMA or bust really. And to be fair, judging by some of the crowds at past UFC shows, it seems like some of that has branched off into a Hispanic American crowd who may have conservative leanings as well cause the UFC wouldn't largely survive just off of money from one group. The audience is more diverse than one would think. Either way, the UFC has a fanbase that dedicated enough to stick with it during the worst of times and the best of times. That's the closest similarity between the UFC and WWE audiences. What happened with the UFC is the right mix of problematic people (either owning, promoting, or fighting for the UFC or slightly adjacent) along with Dana marching on stage at the RNC in 2016 to stump for him the FIRST time. Dana might not have known it then, but he forever changed how the UFC was viewed. And I know that wasn't his intention especially judging his comments after this past presidential election. He wants to be political, but somehow defer the responsibilities that being political brings. He cannot have it both ways and especially since he's not qualified to be in that role of speaking toward political interests. He doesn't get that "supporting a friend" brings a totally different cache of unintended consequences (both good and bad). He didn't understand he just made the UFC a refuge for nutjobs. This goes against some of the progress and steps they made over the last 10-15 years, whether it be giving more opportunities to minorities or openly supporting gay and lesbian fighters who are open about their sexuality. Granted, they still have issues largely revolving around pay and other rights for fighters. However, they had made progress in the other areas. In that way, you undo a lot of that progress because you're hiding under the facade of "free speech". 

The problem WWE would have is trying to be "everything to everyone" just like the UFC when clearly that's not feasible in today's world where politics are even more divisive and you ultimately have no real way or interest in promoting equality. There will be a time where WWE is tested, and the question is whether they will fail in some of the same ways that not just UFC but the NFL and other leagues (who are for profit) have done over the years.