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Posted
1 hour ago, just drew said:

I’ll have my full thoughts on the show later, but for all the talk here about how the Death Riders have failed or whatever… I don’t see that discourse anywhere else online. I think some tweaks should be made, but it’s nowhere near as dire as some of y’all make it out to be. Also, Mox hasn’t gotten nearly as insufferable or as joy-crushing as that “Elite cosplaying as the nwo” nonsense we got 3-4 years ago…

To be fair, the crowd was also more dead for the bulk of that match then most the other matches. One could chalk it up partially to burn-out but AEW always has long ass events and if the crowd is into the main event they are still vocal. It just isn't an interesting storyline, both on the weekly TV and the PPVs anything Death Riders related tend to get the least reactions. Live crowd reactions aren't everything but since usually the biggest fans go to events live its not nothing either.

Also while I applaud you for having a curated timeline as I think everyone should, there are lots and lots of complaints on social media. I mean people complain about everything but to say there is no anti-DR discourse online just seems a bit too hyperbolic.

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Posted

I've reflected further, and I really think I'd have done Cope/Mox as the opener, particularly since there were no debuts/turns/anything of super serious shock value that took place post-match. Because this show was FuCKING AWESOME, and Cope and Mox could've been the greatest match of all time and it wouldn't have been able to follow the three matches before it. Page/MJF ruled. This was one of the few matchups w/AEW day one guys that they hadn't circled around to, and sometimes waiting pays off. This match had some serious bite to it. Felt dangerous. Really, really good shit. When MJF loses clean it means something, and they continue to build Hangman as a guy that means something to AEW.

Mercedes is just very much not my thing. Momo was good, but I just don't like her. Maybe it's my hangup. 

Swerve/Ricochet fornicated. I really thought Nana might turn on Swerve. I was also yelling at my tv for Nana to just run off with the robe, and it popped me when he finally tried it. Also, I hope one day to have as much fun doing anything as Leslie Jones had watching that match. Celebrity involvement, when done properly, can add a real sheen to a quality PPV like this one. Excited for Paul Walter Hauser to have a match in AEW, as that dude LOVES wrestling. He's doing Action Wrestling in my hometown soon. Big Boom AJ seems to be having a ball, and it was probably smart for AEW to lock him down before WWE got their hooks in him.

Toni/Mariah was wonderful and awful and all the things. What a fitting, hateful ending to the blood feud of the decade. This was the proper main event. No argument here. I loved the two of them just laying there afterward felt like the end of a slasher movie. Which is appropriate, because it fucking looked like the end of a slasher movie. 

Okada/King was good, but I'd love for Brody and Buddy to stop eating losses. 

I would've put Takeshita over, but I understand why they didn't. Ospreay/Fletcher was spectacular and insane. I already spoke on the main some. It did what it was supposed to do. Mox was right a few months ago when he said AEW was lousy with huge egos that kept folks from achieving at the highest level, and lo and behold, Christian's ego wouldn't allow him to pick a more advantageous situation to cash in. Swerve is white hot, and I'd probably put the title on him, but there was nothing wrong with this main event other than the two guys in it not working a style that would make it possible for them to follow the handful of matches previous. Top to bottom this was one of the best PPV's they've ever done.

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Posted
1 minute ago, just drew said:

I've reflected further, and I really think I'd have done Cope/Mox as the opener, particularly since there were no debuts/turns/anything of super serious shock value that took place post-match. Because this show was FuCKING AWESOME, and Cope and Mox could've been the greatest match of all time and it wouldn't have been able to follow the three matches before it. Page/MJF ruled. This was one of the few matchups w/AEW day one guys that they hadn't circled around to, and sometimes waiting pays off. This match had some serious bite to it. Felt dangerous. Really, really good shit. When MJF loses clean it means something, and they continue to build Hangman as a guy that means something to AEW.

I do agree with you that while I think upon looking back at a PPV later that match order isn't that big of a deal, if Mox/Cope opened the crowd would have been more into it just as they always are for openers and it wouldn't have had to follow some of the best matches of the year, all back to back. That would have been hard for anyone, particularly two wrestlers doing a more "traditional" style match, regardless how hot the angle was.

Posted
2 hours ago, The Natural said:

Timeless Toni Storm vs. Mariah May definitely should have gone on last. What a fucking spectacle that was. Pissed at Tony Khan for not making it the main event. Best women's match in AEW history and one of the best matches in AEW history as well. *****.

Been thinking about where this match places in my Best AEW Matches Ever:

10. MJF vs. Bryan Danielson. AEW Revolution, 5th March 2023. *****.

9. Bryan Danielson vs. Ricky Starks. AEW All Out, 3rd September 2023. *****.

8. Will Ospreay vs. Bryan Danielson. AEW Dynasty, 21st April 2024. *****.

7. Bryan Danielson vs. Swerve Strickland. AEW All In, 25th August 2024. *****.

6. Timeless Toni Storm vs. Mariah May. AEW Revolution, 9th March 2025. *****.

5. Adam Page/John Silver/Alex Reynolds vs. MJF/Santana/Ortiz. AEW Dynamite, 30th December 2020.

4. Sting/Darby Allin vs. Matthew Jackson/Nicholas Jackson. AEW Revolution, 3rd March 2024. *****.

3. Adam Page vs. Bryan Danielson. AEW Winter is Coming Dynamite, 15th December 2021. *****.

2. Kenny Omega vs. Bryan Danielson. AEW Grand Slam Dynamite, 22nd September 2021. *****.

1. Bryan Danielson vs. Zack Sabre Jr. AEW WrestleDream, 1st October 2023. *****.

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Posted

One good thing about having people over is even if the match is bleh it doesn't matter in real time.  Most people left and it was just one friend there for the main so we had a good time talking real life shit while laughing at how dumb Christian was.  So for that I can't say it was a waste of my time.  But if not for said friend I would have just turned it off after the cage match.

That aside the show plus Zero Hour were shittons of fun.  I was almost surprisingly highly entertained by the Big Boom tag match which had everybody around him doing their best to make him look good.  He's fine for what he does but Boom does have a pretty nice powerbomb.  All the other stuff was great with the obvious highlight being Toni/Mariah.  As soon as they went all Taipei Death Match I commented that at least two or three people I know are going fucking nuts over this.  This was validated by checking Discord in real time and seeing Curt lose his goddamn mind.  Man, that shit ruled.

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, just drew said:

I’ll have my full thoughts on the show later, but for all the talk here about how the Death Riders have failed or whatever… I don’t see that discourse anywhere else online. I think some tweaks should be made, but it’s nowhere near as dire as some of y’all make it out to be. Also, Mox hasn’t gotten nearly as insufferable or as joy-crushing as that “Elite cosplaying as the nwo” nonsense we got 3-4 years ago…

That Elite heel run was at least over with the audience. People didn’t head for the exits during Kenny main events.

Edited by EVA
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Posted

This was the first wrestling of any kind I'd watched for probably 6 months or so and, on the whole, I thought this was a great show. Here's some quick thoughts.

I only three-quarters paid attention to the pre-show while I was trying to engage with my family (to make up for not engaging with them at all during the main show, ha). Thought it was fine on the whole, standard pre-show stuff. I don't know who these Costco guys are and am probably grateful for that. Mark Briscoe is dismal. Orange deserves better than being involved in this. Appreciate them doing something different for the ROH title match. Tazz's _____ Jones thing is annoying as shit. In fact, Tazz was kind of annoying in general, at least until the more serious matches later on. I used to like him on commentary so don't know what happened there.

MJF-Hangman was great. Hangman is the best, the Pedro Pascal of pro wrestling, doing masculinity properly. The tombstone on the chair was a great spot and the angel's wings was sick. MJF is hammy but he's the right kind of hammy.

Good to see Mercedes is still one of the best wrestlers in the world. As far as matches go, I can't remember her ever having a badd on. Momo is pretty great too. The match had just the right amount of stiffness and struggle and grittiness. Keep that Mone train rolling.

If Hangman isn't the best, then Swerve definitely is. Man, I was glad they didn't split him and Nana up. That would have been a major bummer. Loved Leslie Jones at ringside. I haven't seen a Ricochet match in donkeys and never thought he was much good anyway, but at least he has a personality now. I enjoyed this.

Okada/King felt a bit flat overall. It was basically fine, but never really kicked into a higher gear. Not a fan of dog barking Brody.

The Outrunners are fucking garbage. Meme wrestling at its worst. Good on them for getting over but they should be strictly pre-show comedy guys. Speaking of, I'd never seen MxM before and thought their presentation was great. Anyway, this was the first bad match of the night.

Hollywood Ending was a literal masterpiece. They just nailed every element. In terms of trilogy enders we're talking Three Colours: Red or Through the Olive Trees levels of greatness. I literally had tears in my eyes by the end. Easy match of the night. The eventual Toni-Mercedes feud is going to be epic.

That was really the main event, because after that the show really fell off a cliff. Omega/Takeshita was, being generous, fine. I mean, basically like any Kenny match except Kenny seems to have lost something of that intangible quality that always made even his shittiest tendencies somewhat tolerable. I wonder if it's just the injuries and miles catching up with him.

The cage match, to paraphrase Stewart Lee, resided at the very apex of all that was absolute, patience-testing wank. Ospreay just is never going to get it and the fact that he's considered something like a generational talent or the next evolution of pro wrestling honestly makes me sad. Just really terrible instincts, like a child putting together a match. And Fletcher constantly licking at Ospreay's blood to show how sick he is, well, you wouldn't think there was an art to tasting another person's blood, but I guess there is. This match only highlighted what a masterpiece Toni and Mariah put together. The violence and emotion they managed to spin into a 12-minute match before getting out honestly put this to shame.

I appreciate that Mox and Cope just tried to work a basic match after the last two matches pretty much shot their load all over the ring, and thought it was fine for what it was, if a bit dull. Then all the bullshit kicked in and you sense the target was those great Attitude Era bullshit main events but it ended up being more late era WCW main event. Smart to end on Swerve because the crowd needed that sting in the tail. I thought for a minute they were gonna do a Wrestlemania 9 deal where Nana goaded Mox into defending against Swerve there and then and Swerve took the title. Probably a good thing they didn't though it would have been something.

So yeah, this was on course to be one of the best shows ever until the last, what, hour and a half, but it was still really good and well worth my $50.

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Posted

MJF vs Adam Page was pretty dope. I dug the really good and hard hitting stuff until that Angel's Wings, that looked a little too spicy. MJF's emoting was too much for me personally but I like that they are paying off the characters right the beginning of the company. Commentary let some of this match down, they didn't sell most near falls or submission attempts as anything serious. Considering Max tried to kill Hangman earlier in the week I thought there might be more to this but I guess a brutal face plant is enough.

Cage match started as a nice change of pace and got silly by the end. I enjoyed Will discovering the limits of the cage and adjusting on the fly, nice piece of in-ring storytelling there and it leads to Ospreay setting up his highspots with more logic. AEW has a habit of going overly hard in the early stages of a match so the wrestlers can get to the big spots and kick outs, this is the kind of match that deserved that pacing and I didn't think it was too long tbh. All the blood licking and weapons were corny and Mark Davis didn't need to be anywhere near this, aside from that the match had some great moments and I'm excited to see what Kyle can do next.

Posted (edited)
1 hour ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

This was the first wrestling of any kind I'd watched for probably 6 months or so and, on the whole, I thought this was a great show. Here's some quick thoughts.

I only three-quarters paid attention to the pre-show while I was trying to engage with my family (to make up for not engaging with them at all during the main show, ha). Thought it was fine on the whole, standard pre-show stuff. I don't know who these Costco guys are and am probably grateful for that. Mark Briscoe is dismal. Orange deserves better than being involved in this. Appreciate them doing something different for the ROH title match. Tazz's _____ Jones thing is annoying as shit. In fact, Tazz was kind of annoying in general, at least until the more serious matches later on. I used to like him on commentary so don't know what happened there.

MJF-Hangman was great. Hangman is the best, the Pedro Pascal of pro wrestling, doing masculinity properly. The tombstone on the chair was a great spot and the angel's wings was sick. MJF is hammy but he's the right kind of hammy.

Good to see Mercedes is still one of the best wrestlers in the world. As far as matches go, I can't remember her ever having a badd on. Momo is pretty great too. The match had just the right amount of stiffness and struggle and grittiness. Keep that Mone train rolling.

If Hangman isn't the best, then Swerve definitely is. Man, I was glad they didn't split him and Nana up. That would have been a major bummer. Loved Leslie Jones at ringside. I haven't seen a Ricochet match in donkeys and never thought he was much good anyway, but at least he has a personality now. I enjoyed this.

Okada/King felt a bit flat overall. It was basically fine, but never really kicked into a higher gear. Not a fan of dog barking Brody.

The Outrunners are fucking garbage. Meme wrestling at its worst. Good on them for getting over but they should be strictly pre-show comedy guys. Speaking of, I'd never seen MxM before and thought their presentation was great. Anyway, this was the first bad match of the night.

Hollywood Ending was a literal masterpiece. They just nailed every element. In terms of trilogy enders we're talking Three Colours: Red or Through the Olive Trees levels of greatness. I literally had tears in my eyes by the end. Easy match of the night. The eventual Toni-Mercedes feud is going to be epic.

That was really the main event, because after that the show really fell off a cliff. Omega/Takeshita was, being generous, fine. I mean, basically like any Kenny match except Kenny seems to have lost something of that intangible quality that always made even his shittiest tendencies somewhat tolerable. I wonder if it's just the injuries and miles catching up with him.

The cage match, to paraphrase Stewart Lee, resided at the very apex of all that was absolute, patience-testing wank. Ospreay just is never going to get it and the fact that he's considered something like a generational talent or the next evolution of pro wrestling honestly makes me sad. Just really terrible instincts, like a child putting together a match. And Fletcher constantly licking at Ospreay's blood to show how sick he is, well, you wouldn't think there was an art to tasting another person's blood, but I guess there is. This match only highlighted what a masterpiece Toni and Mariah put together. The violence and emotion they managed to spin into a 12-minute match before getting out honestly put this to shame.

I appreciate that Mox and Cope just tried to work a basic match after the last two matches pretty much shot their load all over the ring, and thought it was fine for what it was, if a bit dull. Then all the bullshit kicked in and you sense the target was those great Attitude Era bullshit main events but it ended up being more late era WCW main event. Smart to end on Swerve because the crowd needed that sting in the tail. I thought for a minute they were gonna do a Wrestlemania 9 deal where Nana goaded Mox into defending against Swerve there and then and Swerve took the title. Probably a good thing they didn't though it would have been something.

So yeah, this was on course to be one of the best shows ever until the last, what, hour and a half, but it was still really good and well worth my $50.

Adam! Welcome back, my friend. Great seeing you. Particularly with you on Mercedes Mone, Timeless Toni Storm/Mariah May and Will Ospreay/Kyle Fletcher. We'll never get Will Ospreay.

Edited by The Natural
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Posted

This show showed again how important the main event is as it's the last thing you see, you don't want to end on a downer. This did with Jon Moxley vs. Cope vs. Christian Cage. Strike when the iron's not and put your best feud in AEW history on last. Storm/May earned that and not just for equality among the sexes. This was like WrestleMania XXXV with Triple H and Randy Orton stinking the show on last when The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels couldn't be topped. Such a stupid decision of hubris that was. I remember Triple H in later years turning round to Randy Orton saying "We're fucked" after The Undertaker vs. Shawn Michaels. Refreshing honesty. You'd like to think Mox/Cope/Cage knew it was bad as well.

Posted
39 minutes ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

 Omega/Takeshita was, being generous, fine. I mean, basically like any Kenny match except Kenny seems to have lost something of that intangible quality that always made even his shittiest tendencies somewhat tolerable. I wonder if it's just the injuries and miles catching up with him.
 

Could you elaborate one what you mean by this being like “any Kenny match”? I feel like one of the things I liked most about it was how hard Kenny was working against a lot of his big match tendencies. He skipped a ton of his trademark stuff and really focused on selling his intesTINE (credit: Don Callis) and fighting for his life from underneath. I thought it was an incredibly brave and confident performance, going against the audience’s expectations in a very tough spot following the Toni/Mariah war.

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Posted
10 hours ago, Casey said:

At this point, I don't think they're waiting for Darby - I think they're waiting for their largest attended US show, at All In Texas.

They better start moving some tickets then. The first Arthur Ashe has like 21k, so far only 11k sold for All In. It *should* be their largest US audience, but it's not a guarentee.

3 hours ago, just drew said:

I’ll have my full thoughts on the show later, but for all the talk here about how the Death Riders have failed or whatever… I don’t see that discourse anywhere else online. I think some tweaks should be made, but it’s nowhere near as dire as some of y’all make it out to be. Also, Mox hasn’t gotten nearly as insufferable or as joy-crushing as that “Elite cosplaying as the nwo” nonsense we got 3-4 years ago…

This is the most actively delusional post I've ever seen on this board. The crowd let out an audible groan when Mox went over. 11k people all at once went ugh. That opening forearm exchange that was supposed to get a firey reaction from the crowd like the chop exchanges that go on forever and it got LITERAL silence.

I dont want to hear the crowd was burnt out either. That crowd was there all night for everything. No matter where you put that on the card that's the reaction you're getting. This run is killing AEW's main event scene. And when Swerve loses at Dynasty it's gonna be even worse.

That was AEW's worst ppv main event ever and by a wide margin. I actually called the exact finish in my group chat because I assumed stubborn ass TK wasn't moving off his plan. And I'm right. It's Darby and it's at All In. So we get a reverse Rollins so Mox can go over while Edge doesn't take the fall.

The pivot should be Swerve as champ leading to Swerve vs Hangman at All In. But it won't be. Your biggest stars working the hottest angle at the biggest show. But no, that's not what's been written in TK's notebook since September. So that's not what we're getting.

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Posted

In defense of the cage match, it was really big and really stupid and really everything the Hollywood Ending wasn't in all the worst ways, but if you can't enjoy a good hamburger then you're not much of a gourmand. Timeless Toni would call it a Z-movie to be parodied by the robots. She would be correct. But it was still fun as hell as an endless trainwreck. 

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Posted

Ranking the three Timeless Toni Storm vs. Mariah May matches:

3. Mariah May vs. Timeless Toni Storm. AEW All In, 25th August 2024. ****1/2.

2. Timeless Toni Storm vs. Mariah May. AEW Grand Slam Australia, 15th February 2025. ****3/4.

1. Timeless Toni Storm vs. Mariah May. AEW Revolution, 9th March 2025. *****.

Best feud in AEW history.

Posted
14 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Ranking the three Timeless Toni Storm vs. Mariah May matches:

3. Mariah May vs. Timeless Toni Storm. AEW All In, 25th August 2024. ****1/2.

2. Timeless Toni Storm vs. Mariah May. AEW Grand Slam Australia, 15th February 2025. ****3/4.

1. Timeless Toni Storm vs. Mariah May. AEW Revolution, 9th March 2025. *****.

Best feud in AEW history.

I’m curious to know since I haven’t seen last nights show yet, but if you’re ranking this as the top feud is Swerve and Hangman second best? Because to me that’s my number one, but I could see this replacing it. 

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Posted
Just now, Just Adam Bay Bay said:

I’m curious to know since I haven’t seen last nights show yet, but if you’re ranking this as the top feud is Swerve and Hangman second best? Because to me that’s my number one, but I could see this replacing it. 

Good question. I'm in the minority when it comes to Swerve Strickland vs. Hangman Adam Page's Texas Death Match and Hangman Adam Page vs. Swerve Strickland Lights Out Steel Cage match at All Out 2024. I hated the blood drinking spot in the former and hated the hypodermic needle to the cheek/steel chair shot to the head in the latter. I can admire the storytelling still. It's either second or third to CM Punk vs. MJF, real shame we never had the trilogy capper.

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Posted
25 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

They better start moving some tickets then. The first Arthur Ashe has like 21k, so far only 11k sold for All In. It *should* be their largest US audience, but it's not a guarentee.

This is the most actively delusional post I've ever seen on this board. The crowd let out an audible groan when Mox went over. 11k people all at once went ugh. That opening forearm exchange that was supposed to get a firey reaction from the crowd like the chop exchanges that go on forever and it got LITERAL silence.

I dont want to hear the crowd was burnt out either. That crowd was there all night for everything. No matter where you put that on the card that's the reaction you're getting. This run is killing AEW's main event scene. And when Swerve loses at Dynasty it's gonna be even worse.

That was AEW's worst ppv main event ever and by a wide margin. I actually called the exact finish in my group chat because I assumed stubborn ass TK wasn't moving off his plan. And I'm right. It's Darby and it's at All In. So we get a reverse Rollins so Mox can go over while Edge doesn't take the fall.

The pivot should be Swerve as champ leading to Swerve vs Hangman at All In. But it won't be. Your biggest stars working the hottest angle at the biggest show. But no, that's not what's been written in TK's notebook since September. So that's not what we're getting.

I mean, I’ll watch it again, but I didn’t hear anything close to that. Nowhere did I say that I find this DR thing enjoyable at this point. It could be, but the refusal to evolve the group at all is baffling to me. I just don’t see the great online outcry from all corners of fandom. Fwiw, I’m all for Swerve winning the title. I think he and Hangman are both better choices than waiting for Darby. I just don’t see Mox as some company killing presence.

Posted
19 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Good question. I'm in the minority when it comes to Swerve Strickland vs. Hangman Adam Page's Texas Death Match and Hangman Adam Page vs. Swerve Strickland Lights Out Steel Cage match at All Out 2024. I hated the blood drinking spot in the former and hated the hypodermic needle to the cheek/steel chair shot to the head in the latter. I can admire the storytelling still. It's either second or third to CM Punk vs. MJF, real shame we never had the trilogy capper.

My top 3 All Time AEW Feuds 

1.  Toni/Mariah

2. Swerve/Hangman

3.Punk/MJF.

 

Punk/MJF is the only time in Punks career I understood why people were fans of him to the level that they are.

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, stuntmanc said:

My top 3 All Time AEW Feuds 

1.  Toni/Mariah

2. Swerve/Hangman

3.Punk/MJF.

 

Punk/MJF is the only time in Punks career I understood why people were fans of him to the level that they are.

I'd go:

1. Timeless Toni Storm/Mariah May.

2. CM Punk/MJF.

3. Swerve Strickland/Hangman Adam Page.

I love the two CM Punk/MJF matches. Gave both *****. The AEW Dynamite match, 2nd February 2022 was the best of the two while the Dog Collar match at AEW Revolution, 6th March 2022 on my 37th birthday brought back something I never thought I'd see again: AFI's Miseria Cantare and Punk wearing long shorts like he used on the independents back in the day.

Edited by The Natural
Posted

Fuck Darby. I like the guy, but he’s not reliable and he’s nowhere near as over as Swerve or Hangman. Mox loses to Swerve and then you build to Swerve vs Hangman at All In where each guy has to confront their past and demons, how they’re not that person anymore but they’re still dangerous, Hangman especially has to fight hard to beat back the ultraviolent tendencies Swerve brought out in him. I mean sure, have Swerve defend against whoever at DoN and Forbidden Door, but build to Swerve vs Hangman for the title. Hell, you can still do Moxley vs Darby as a singles match.

This PPV fucking ruled until that main event. 12 million stars for Mariah vs Toni, Kenny vs Takeshita was a different kind of Kenny match than we’ve seen before, Brody vs Okada was fucking awesome because it’s the first time Okada has fought a monster like Brody and both guys were excellent, Ospreay vs Fletcher was one of the damnedest and wildest matches ever, and even when the main event was over you had Swerve bringing the crowd right back into it.

I had a good friend at the show where for $180 he was basically on the hard cam on the right hand side in a white Bills hoodie all night. He said the crowd was hot for everything except that main event and the main event was probably the worst thing on the show match wise. I texted him at one point that the ring crew should all get bonuses and he texted back laughing saying that it was hilarious for how fast they were struggling to change the canvas and clean everything up repeatedly. He also said no one was really leaving during the main so at least people stayed.

Also, lord, can we please get Leslie Jones in attendance for every PPV? She was awesome.

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Posted
2 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Also, lord, can we please get Leslie Jones in attendance for every PPV? She was awesome.

Yes. More Leslie Jones. Less douce bag actresses that expose the business on the mic for no reason.

I mean it's 2025 we all know. But no one stops a movie an hour in just to tell us it's scripted right before the ending. Why do these people have to make sure they prove they know it's scripted?

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