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Wrestling Observer/Meltzer Ominbus Thread


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I knew there was a thread missing from the board. :>

 

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This is quite the week for the folks who are annoyed about the MMA coverage in the Observer.

 

The first US Wrestling news doesn't come until page 7.

 

3.5 pages on UFC PPV

1 page on NJPW G-1

1 page on MMA

1 page on NJPW ippv

1 page on NOAH

 

and then the Raw/SD/TNA TV ratings before the results section

 

 

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I don't want this to sound condescending, but maybe one of the reasons UFC gets so much more coverage than the Japanese wrestling promotions or other MMA companies is because Dave has more access to UFC stuff and is able to write more fulfilling pieces on UFC than the others. I haven't subscribed to the WON since 2007 or 2008 but really, what is there to report on with the Japanese promotions other than show recaps? I can't imagine he has the same inside/backstage info with those compared to WWE, TNA or UFC. I get that it's frustrating for those who don't care about MMA and feel it's taking up space that could be better used for other wrestling promotions, but maybe Dave really just doesn't have anything else to report.

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He is only been covering it for like 20 years and his coverage has varied based on the success of the sport. If the sport was at the pre-Zuffa purchase levels, I doubt he would consider working for MMAFighting and devote only a few paragraphs to it in the WO. But it's not and part of his living comes from covering it. Get the fuck over it. Goddamn.

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I agree. I have no issue with the UFC coverage and I'm a casual UFC fan at best. I just don't think that if there were less MMA coverage it'd lead to more non-WWE/TNA coverage. I think it's more likely there'd be smaller content/less amount of issues than more coverage devoted to Japan, Mexico or somewhere else.

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I don't want this to sound condescending, but maybe one of the reasons UFC gets so much more coverage than the Japanese wrestling promotions or other MMA companies is because Dave has more access to UFC stuff and is able to write more fulfilling pieces on UFC than the others. I haven't subscribed to the WON since 2007 or 2008 but really, what is there to report on with the Japanese promotions other than show recaps? I can't imagine he has the same inside/backstage info with those compared to WWE, TNA or UFC. I get that it's frustrating for those who don't care about MMA and feel it's taking up space that could be better used for other wrestling promotions, but maybe Dave really just doesn't have anything else to report.

There's more to report in Japan than USA. Remeber, USA has one major company, Japan has multiple. Japanese companies have dirt, future booking plans and buisness details just like WWE does. In some aspects, their dirt might even be better since they are tied up with the yakuza and have different laws there. You can't tell me you wouldn't like a paragraph devoted to whatever stupidity Antonio Inoki alone has come up with for the week.

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There's more to report in Japan than USA. Remeber, USA has one major company, Japan has multiple. Japanese companies have dirt, future booking plans and buisness details just like WWE does. In some aspects, their dirt might even be better since they are tied up with the yakuza and have different laws there. You can't tell me you wouldn't like a paragraph devoted to whatever stupidity Antonio Inoki alone has come up with for the week.

 

Zach?  Is that you?

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There's more to report in Japan than USA. Remeber, USA has one major company, Japan has multiple. Japanese companies have dirt, future booking plans and buisness details just like WWE does. In some aspects, their dirt might even be better since they are tied up with the yakuza and have different laws there. You can't tell me you wouldn't like a paragraph devoted to whatever stupidity Antonio Inoki alone has come up with for the week.

 

I'll ask again. Did anything in wrestling in the ENTIRE world happen that merited front page news? The answer is no. There was a Japanese PPV that had fucking GEDO in the main event and an announcement of G-1 participants. That might've literally been the biggest wrestling news of the week.

 

If you don't like it, stop buying and stop fucking whining about it.

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I knew there was a thread missing from the board. :>

 

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This is quite the week for the folks who are annoyed about the MMA coverage in the Observer.

 

The first US Wrestling news doesn't come until page 7.

 

3.5 pages on UFC PPV

1 page on NJPW G-1

1 page on MMA

1 page on NJPW ippv

1 page on NOAH

 

and then the Raw/SD/TNA TV ratings before the results section

 

Odessasteps kicking the new thread on the new forum with a hot start.

 

Pretty much have gone off MMA completely but even I didn't feel short changed by the issue and everything that Meltzer normally covers was covered to a sufficient degree. 

 

mookies last tally of the break down between MMA and Pro Wrestling in Observer:

Posted Image

 

 

What's the issue besides your personal ones, odessa?

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This is what I wrote originally (May 23 2013)

 

I went through the 59 issues that were published in 2012 and categorized the stories into major themes:

* Wrestling - dealing with Pro Wrestling Companies (i.e. WWE, TNA, ROH, DG, Mexico-CMLL/AAA, Puerto Rico-WWC, Japan-All Japan/New Japan/NOAH/DDT, ...) or Pro Wrestling Personalities (Linda McMahon runs for Senate, Hulk Hogan Sex tape, Ric Flair contract dispute)

* MMA - dealing with MMA Companies (UFC/Strikeforce, World Series of Fighting, Bellator, K-1...) or MMA Personalities (Overeem suspension, Nick Diaz drama, MMA career)

* Ratings - dealing with Television Companies and Ratings (weekly ratings, Nielsen/Twitter alliance, DirectTV dropping channels, etc.)

* Here and Now - Here and Now section (usually about pro wrestling, but covers many misc. topics)

* Results - weekly results from shows across the globe

* Other - Thank yous, Special Notes, Renewal information

* WO Award - Wrestling Observer Awards

* Olympics/NCAA - Coverage of Olympics Stars who joined Wrestling/MMA or NCAA Wrestling Tournament

* WO HOF - Wrestling Observer Hall of Fame

* Business - Business Comparisons, often between MMA & Pro Wrestling such as Top Cards or Google Popularity Rankings

* Polls - Vince Russo and Dave's Fax Machine love 'em. Use your thumbs!

Extended Biographies of people were counted towards either Pro Wrestling (Lou Albano, Brad Armstrong, Buddy Roberts, Cheif Jay Strongbow, Don Fields, Doug Furnas, Guy Larose, Hangman Bobby Jaggers, Hans Schmidt, Joe Blanchard, Alex Karras, Jerry Lawler, Mario Marino, Mick McManus, Mike Graham, Sam Muchnick, Ray Stevens, Bull Nakano, Ray Stevens, Red Bastien, Rip Hawk, Savannah Jack, Gus Sonnenberg, Woody Farmer, MS1, Miguel Alonso, Alfonso Morales) or MMA (Cung Le, Volk Han, Jeff Blatnick, Mike Bernardo, Fedor, Cro Cop).

Word Count for the big two categories - MMA and Pro-Wrestling Coverage (click for larger version with the other categories)

Posted Image

So, in most issues almost three-quarters of the coverage relates to Pro Wrestling and about a quarter is MMA. The only time that MMA got more coverage than Wrestling in an issue was on the week of a double-issue.

Wrestling Coverage was about: 49% WWE, 20% TNA, 10% Biographies with the remainder being Japanese Groups (about 10%), ROH (5%) and Lucha (4%).

MMA Coverage was 80% UFC, 14% Other MMA (inc. Bellator) and 3% Biographies.

So, excluding biographies, my count was about 582k words about WWE, 360k words about UFC, 239k words about TNA, 116k about Japanese Pro Wrestling.

Posted Image

I've looked at this before in 2010 and came up with very similar numbers in terms of a MMA/Wrestling split.

2010 (sample): WWE 48% / TNA 21% / UFC-WEC 31%

2012 (comprehensive): WWE 49% / TNA 20% / UFC-Strikeforce 30%

To Dave's question about using polls as a measuring stick for interest... I looked at # of total responses to PPVs:

Whether you use the 25th quartile, the average, the median or the 75th quartile - the ratio between the # of total responses for UFC/TNA/WWE is pretty similar. (Only major outlier is Wrestlemania which regularly does 2x or 3x the average number of poll response.)

TNA PPV poll will have about 72 responses, UFC PPV poll will have 137 response and WWE PPV poll will have 161 responses (if you exclude WM from the sample). (I decided to leave off Broadcast TV UFC polls from the sample.)

That would suggest readers are interested in 19% TNA coverage, 37% UFC coverage and 44% WWE coverage.

The implication from the polls alone would be that Dave is slightly overcovering WWE and undercovering UFC. However, given the huge spike for Wrestlemania, I think it's fair to assume that WWE coverage is still very important to his core readers - especially for the large number of people who read it weekly (like me) but don't respond to most monthly polls.

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I dont think i said dave was wrong. I just found it inyeresting that there was no WWE or TNA content until page 7.

I personally dont read the MMA stuff but i dont rhink ive evwe said it sohouldnt be there.

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I agree. I have no issue with the UFC coverage and I'm a casual UFC fan at best. I just don't think that if there were less MMA coverage it'd lead to more non-WWE/TNA coverage. I think it's more likely there'd be smaller content/less amount of issues than more coverage devoted to Japan, Mexico or somewhere else.

 

I think what you'd see is more historical pieces.  Aren't there still some backlogged HOF bios/obits that Dave never got around to?  Also, without MMA Dave would likely have more time to watch lucha and puro and indies and so naturally it would get more time devoted to it

 

Personally, I don't mind the MMA coverage either.  I'm a fan, and Dave is one of the more knowledgable reporters around who's been covering it as long as anyone

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I think what you'd see is more historical pieces.  Aren't there still some backlogged HOF bios/obits that Dave never got around to?  Also, without MMA Dave would likely have more time to watch lucha and puro and indies and so naturally it would get more time devoted to it

There are plenty of historical pieces about MMA that Dave could have written as well. There is always going to be something that cuts into the coverage of something else. If a big WWE story breaks or New Japan puts on a top notch iPPV, I doubt a story about UFC fight night bonuses would be the first or most detailed thing you see. However, the UFC is coming off the upset of the year and heading into another transition in their television programming. In addition, the biggest fight of the year was made. That's not even mentioning the UFC finalizing the rest of their PPVs for the year. I'd expect there to be coverage. 

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I dont think i said dave was wrong. I just found it inyeresting that there was no WWE or TNA content until page 7.I personally dont read the MMA stuff but i dont rhink ive evwe said it sohouldnt be there.

 

Ok

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Your call where you want to post them, just hope you still do. Welcome back.

 

Thanks alot. :)

 

891. "Devon pinned Bully Ray in 9:35 to keep the TV title. Devon was the one in the ring and called out Bubba. I guess that means he’s shooting when he uses his ECW name instead of his TNA name. Ray came out and refused to have a match with Devon because he said that “If you’re in the ring with me, you’re a star and I’m not making you a star anymore.” That makes the title seem so prestigious when the champion hands you a title shot but you’re a star and don’t want it." - (WON 2012-05-09)892. "[impact] opened with Bobby Roode out. He said he was the greatest champion in the history of the company and the most dominant, noting he’s two weeks away from setting the record as the longest reigning champion in TNA history, noting he’ll have held the title longer than A.J. Styles, Hardy, Kurt Angle or Sting. That’s like bragging about being the guy who had the longest run as Walter Mondale’s campaign director, or the guy who spent the most time overseeing the building of the Titanic, or the longest reigning TV producer of the XFL. He talked about how last week he embarrassed the competition when he left Mr. Anderson, Jeff Hardy and RVD laying at the end of the show. Even though he’s been around for 20 years, it wasn’t until the way Roode said “RVD” that it ever even occurred to me that RVD sounds like a disease you get banging sluts. Anderson, RVD and Hardy all came out and starting beating down Roode, until Hardy then attacked Anderson and the two matches were paired off. We had the pull-apart. When WWE agents run out in a pull apart, it looks like they just got out of a business meeting and look silly breaking up fights in suits and ties, even if it does look professional. When Al Snow, D-Lo Brown and Pat Kenney come out, it was like somebody rushed them out of the dart game at the local pub. It doesn’t look as professional, but if your job description entails breaking up fights with 200 pound sweaty guys, it probably makes sense to dress like they do." - (WON 2012-05-21)893. "Matt Morgan was supposed to wrestle Crimson for the last time ever. That’s what they said before their match at Lockdown as well. I know people think this is a forgettable feud, but this one is going to live forever. In 2040, when people are convicted of violent crimes and jails are overcrowded, they will instead have to confine them to house arrest watching an endless loop of Morgan vs. Crimson matches." - (WON 2012-05-21)894. "Christian pinned Hunico with the killswitch. Rhodes came out after the match and claimed that Christian had ruined the IC title. I guess getting a win on TV while holding the title is so unusual these days that it is construed as ruining it." - (WON 2012-05-21)895. "Then, in a segment that was mind blowing, Booker T was out there talking about his favorite moment of himself on Raw. He said the match with Buff Bagwell. The played clips of Scott Hudson announcing (in his first and last Raw appearance) that match in Tacoma that was so bad and received even worse that Vince did a 180 the next day, canceling every single plan he’d made and that poor Live Events department had to completely retool the entire schedule for the next few months and change all advertising. I’ll bet there was never a match in history, that cost more people their jobs in the industry because no match ever single-handedly changed the business like that one." - (WON 2012-06-18)896. "I don’t know what it is about John Belushi and wrestlers, but not only is there the famous Hulk Hogan story about doing choke with Belushi after WrestleMania II and Hulk doing so much even Belushi couldn’t keep up. Belushi was a brilliant comedian and actor and notorious heavy partier who died from an overdose of heroin and cocaine in 1982–four years before WrestleMania II, making that story ridiculous. But on the WWE’s Four Horseman DVD, Dusty Rhodes told a story about being in a club in New York City with Bette Middler and Belushi when the Horsemen came in and everyone blocked to them like they were the Rolling Stones. Of course, the Horseman didn’t even form until about four years after Belushi died." - (WON 2012-06-18)897. "The announcers were explaining how impressive Sandow was on the 1,000th episode of Raw. Wait a minute, he came out, got superkicked and then got pedigreed. We have different interpretations of the meaning of the word impressive." - (WON 2012-08-13)898. " Show came out and talked about how he’s from Miami, and Miami is a city of winners and ran down Dallas sports franchises. Cena, who is evidently a big fan of the local team in whatever city they are in, defended the honor of the city and laid Show out with the Attitude Adjustment." - (WON 2012-08-13)899. "Sheamus & Cena were backstage going over strategy. Well, actually Sheamus was talking and Cena was paying no attention like he was in his own world. You could have confused them for being married." - (WON 2012-09-24)900. "In July, Ultimate Warrior launched a new subscription only web site. For $20 per month, subscribers could pay to get his videos and motivational speeches. However, he only did two new videos in August and has since disappeared. Subscribers were very unhappy." - (WON 2012-10-02) 

And as always, the whole list of quotes can be find here: http://www.angelfire.com/al/sebbe/WON.html

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892. "[impact] opened with Bobby Roode out. He said he was the greatest champion in the history of the company and the most dominant, noting he’s two weeks away from setting the record as the longest reigning champion in TNA history, noting he’ll have held the title longer than A.J. Styles, Hardy, Kurt Angle or Sting. That’s like bragging about being the guy who had the longest run as Walter Mondale’s campaign director, or the guy who spent the most time overseeing the building of the Titanic, or the longest reigning TV producer of the XFL. He talked about how last week he embarrassed the competition when he left Mr. Anderson, Jeff Hardy and RVD laying at the end of the show. Even though he’s been around for 20 years, it wasn’t until the way Roode said “RVD” that it ever even occurred to me that RVD sounds like a disease you get banging sluts. Anderson, RVD and Hardy all came out and starting beating down Roode, until Hardy then attacked Anderson and the two matches were paired off. We had the pull-apart. When WWE agents run out in a pull apart, it looks like they just got out of a business meeting and look silly breaking up fights in suits and ties, even if it does look professional. When Al Snow, D-Lo Brown and Pat Kenney come out, it was like somebody rushed them out of the dart game at the local pub. It doesn’t look as professional, but if your job description entails breaking up fights with 200 pound sweaty guys, it probably makes sense to dress like they do." - (WON 2012-05-21)

 

So, is there an actual thing TNA didn't do right here? The whole "longest reigning TNA champion" deal did a lot to push Roode to the next level and get the belt over. It was one of the few good booking decisions that the company has ever made. And Meltzer shits all over it to make a reference to Walter Mondale's campaign directors? Epitome of old man yells at cloud.

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