AEW: Missed Opportunities.

[just drew]

On 10/23/2024 at 10:11 AM, HarryArchieGus said:

Some good points to be sure, but punctuating negatives with ratings is faulty. Ratings/Money isn't factored so simply by creative mishaps. Throughout WWE's current resurgence, AEW Dynamite has been most weeks the better quality show. It's interesting how all the best known wrestling critics have conflated Quality with Commerce. Does Billboard indicate the best music? Do Box Office receipts indicate the best movies? Each of the violent angles you pointed out above are pretty good reasons why families and more sensitive viewers don't watch AEW. That's certainly gonna cut into your attendance/TV numbers. WWE is currently succeeding with a product aimed to please the lowest common denominator while AEW is aimed at pleasing a wrestling audience. That's not at all to say their aren't plenty of follies and ways for AEW to improve. Promotionally speaking alone WWE is clearly the stronger company - it's the widest division between the two companies. No matter what the competition on Wednesday nights, AEW is battling for viewership against 6-10 hours of WWE programming every week. The ratings results for this 5 year old company versus the McDonalds of pro wrestling are pretty damn remarkable.. The contract AEW just signed for hundreds of millions of dollars pretty well proves that. 

I couldn't agree more on those opening crowd shots, but I don't agree the solution is to each week male gaze the women in the audience. Finding attractive looking ppl for occasional cut aways (if you must) is a no brainer and would certainly benefit the TV presentation. It's kind of astonishing that this production team would be so absent minded of this. 

Your complaint on women debuting the same over and over is a stretch. How did Mercedes and Mariah May debut? Rayne and Taya are lower card acts that you would inevitably use as enhancement. The booking strategy of using their bloom to put over a more important roster member is totally acceptable. Deeb isn't an example of your theory. Natural heel Deonna however, yeah, completely mishandled as a babyface. It was made worst by heel Champion Toni being the most over babyface in the Divison. 

I don't think the Blood n Guts 2024 booking is quite accurate, but the statement concerning repetition of the same stories is spot on. This has been an issue since day 1. The multitude of nightmare-ish collectives was perhaps our first example. That said, there's gonna be some lousy or incomplete storytelling when multiple TV shows run 52 weeks a year for 5 years. Teams/feuds starting/stopping is par for the course. I would suggest it's rarely without reason. injuries and egos being two often overlooked considerations. That said, your example of Darby and White is very good. White's aim on Hangman and Christian as more of a priority make enough sense to me. Jay wasn't around when Darby returned, so I don't see an issue with Darby taking a different target. I'd say there's a pretty good chance they come back to Darby/Jay at some point, but agreed that it's not clean storytelling. 

I find the whole 'missed opportunities' a bit tricky with the lack of behind the scenes transparency in wrestling and especially AEW. To me the biggest missed opportunity for AEW is (too often) not following up on characters/stories. Character-wise, a modicum of clarity of why a wrestler is no longer appearing week to week is a goddamn necessity. And a real true failure of the AEW creative process. I respect wanting not to disclose injury specifics, but again, understanding why said (especially pushed) person is not on television is an absolute necessity. The random disappearances are AEW's greatest weakness. Story-wise it took them nearly 5 years to start following up big angles/matches/events with packages etc. AEW has relied far too much on heavy lifting from Excalibur on commentary. It's a choice that has repeatedly failed to properly promote their stories. That said, I'm seeing a concerted effort of the last while, and it's a great push in the right direction.

Damn dude. Spot on. 

For the record, I have long maintained that AEW's biggest "missed opportunity" was not letting the Bucks leave when they had the chance. I'm no Punk fan, but a ratings breakdown of their segments should tell the tale as to who generates the revenue. The Bucks' interminably long runs with the tag title has cost the company Santana and Ortiz & CM Punk, and is about to end Private Party. I also want it known that I said the Bucks completely lacked self awareness a year ago, and everyone wanted my head. How much more do some of y'all need to see? 

AEW can still be a great company. I am of the belief that from week to week they present the best in-ring product of any company in America. If I were Tony Khan, I'd mimic the one smart thing Eric Bischoff ever did; sit down and make a list of every way I can be different from WWE. Get back into the business of fantastic tag team wrestling. The talent is in AEW to have the best women's division in America. Get it there. Lean on your veterans without rehashing shit that happened 20 years ago. You just got an ass-ton of money from WBD. Use this time to figure out what you are. It really is remarkable that AEW has been on worldwide TV this long in an age where WWE is synonymous with professional wrestling. Now it's time to start shoving back.

 

And also; Buddy Matthews better not fucking lose to that skinnyfat dork Adam Cole. Whew. Ok. Got it out of my system. ;).

[The Natural]

FTR vs. Young Bucks III should have been for all the tag team belts and FTR should have won winner takes all.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

17 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said:

There's no women's tag belts because the best women's tag team in the world was never signed by AEW and/or is still retired. 

 

I mean, technically Brie's made one on-screen appearance already

(I kid, I kid)

[Zakk_Sabbath]

14 hours ago, just drew said:

AEW can still be a great company. I am of the belief that from week to week they present the best in-ring product of any company in America. If I were Tony Khan, I'd mimic the one smart thing Eric Bischoff ever did; sit down and make a list of every way I can be different from WWE. Get back into the business of fantastic tag team wrestling. The talent is in AEW to have the best women's division in America. Get it there. Lean on your veterans without rehashing shit that happened 20 years ago. You just got an ass-ton of money from WBD. Use this time to figure out what you are. It really is remarkable that AEW has been on worldwide TV this long in an age where WWE is synonymous with professional wrestling. Now it's time to start shoving back.

I may disagree with your stance on the Elite guys (which is a total matter of personal taste, I wouldn't bust chops) but I cannot agree more with this particular passage, as well as @HarryArchieGus' post you're quoting. It's kind of a goofy example, but that differentiation you mention is a big reason why I was wild pissed off for that month or two we had LED screens everywhere and the Weds. graphics package had a very NXT 2.0 feel.

[RazorbladeKiss87]

4 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I mean, technically Brie's made one on-screen appearance already

(I kid, I kid)

To quote someone I dearly miss, "You got to be joking me!"

[stuntmanc]

23 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said:

There's no women's tag belts because the best women's tag team in the world was never signed by AEW and/or is still retired. 

 

I really miss The Iiconics.  If I could get a womans trio of them w/Chelsey Green it might be the most entertaining trio of all time.

[JLowe]

On 10/23/2024 at 7:37 PM, BobbyWhioux said:

the right emo gimmick would have girls screaming at decibel levels not heard since prime Ricky Morton, speaking of missed opportunities.

(and indie rock elitist hipster snobs could so easily be their Midnightesque foils)

More like pop-punk diehards who hate that shitty emo gets called pop-punk, but we’re all wimps.

[JLowe]

On 10/24/2024 at 6:22 PM, BobbyWhioux said:

There's no women's tag belts because the best women's tag team in the world was never signed by AEW and/or is still retired. 

 

The Jumping Bomb Angels?

[BobbyWhioux]

39 minutes ago, JLowe said:

More like pop-punk diehards who hate that shitty emo gets called pop-punk, but we’re all wimps.

as long as their Manager is a 50/50 split of Jim Cornette and Steve Albini

[Stefanie Sparkleface]

48 minutes ago, JLowe said:

The Jumping Bomb Angels?

Weird way to spell Las Cachorras Orientales but you do you.

[HarryArchieGus]

On 10/24/2024 at 12:04 AM, Death From Above said:

Literally twice the Dark Order challeneged for the tag titles and pulled the same "This one is for Brodie" thing and lost anyway. At least the Bucks got that 400 day reign in, whew.

I've completely forgotten this Dark Order dedication. Like how Steamer dedicated his WM4 loss to his son? I honestly thought the consistent quality of matches the Bucks were having justified the 400 days. I do love the Reynolds/SIlver team.  

On 10/24/2024 at 5:28 PM, BobbyWhioux said:

Early on in AEW's history [back when we all thought Cody was doing the same thing], I remember thinking the Bucks were doing a clever job of getting in the ring and Hoganing it up whenever one of their fellow The Elite members would get a big [title] win and setting themselves up to be a great heel dragon for one of the young teams to slay.

Needless to say I eventually realized I was overestimating their self-awareness in these moments.

Omega, Rhodes and the Jacksons should never have announced their 'Executive Vice President' status. It put an unnecessary focus on their win/loss records. I think it had a hand in running Rhodes out of the company. It seems somewhat clear the Jacksons and Omega won plenty of matches they would have preferred to have lost. They were all losing too many matches before Khan took the book after the Dark Order debacle. Tony has booked the Bucks strong because, love/hate em, they're over with a large part of the audience that buy PPVs and tickets. I include myself.  

[The Natural]

4 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

To quote someone I dearly miss, "You got to be joking me!"

I understand that reference!

[The Natural]

4 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

To quote someone I dearly miss, "You got to be joking me!"

 

3 hours ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

I really miss The Iiconics.  If I could get a womans trio of them w/Chelsey Green it might be the most entertaining trio of all time.

I still rewatch this promo to this day as it's hilarious for the corpsing:

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=7efz2cMmVDk&pp=ygUUaWNvbmljcyByb3lhbCBydW1ibGU%3D

[RazorbladeKiss87]

4 hours ago, StuntmanCrowley said:

I really miss The Iiconics.  If I could get a womans trio of them w/Chelsey Green it might be the most entertaining trio of all time.

Slot them into a Michinoku Pro or Osaka Pro comedy match and you'd probably have my favorite match bar none. 

[Technico Support]

12 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Like how Steamer dedicated his WM4 loss to his son?

I’ve never heard that, and it’s hilarious.  Did he hate that kid?  “I’ve had a long career against the greatest ever, but Richie, this meaningless loss against a washed up Greg Valentine is for you!”

[BobbyWhioux]

3 hours ago, Technico Support said:

I’ve never heard that, and it’s hilarious.  Did he hate that kid?  “I’ve had a long career against the greatest ever, but Richie, this meaningless loss against a washed up Greg Valentine is for you!”

Steamboat losing a match dedicated to his infant son has got to be the evolutionary ancestor to Vince's obsession with booking guys to lose in their hometown.

[AxB]

Davey Boy Smith dedicated a match in his hometown (home country, but you know how Americans are about thinking there's only one city in Britain) to his sister (who was dying of cancer) and lost.

[The Natural]

39 minutes ago, AxB said:

Davey Boy Smith dedicated a match in his hometown (home country, but you know how Americans are about thinking there's only one city in Britain) to his sister (who was dying of cancer) and lost.

WWF One Night Only 1997. I was so angry.

Edited October 27, 2024 by The Natural

[The Natural]

3 hours ago, AxB said:

Davey Boy Smith dedicated a match in his hometown (home country, but you know how Americans are about thinking there's only one city in Britain) to his sister (who was dying of cancer) and lost.

I think that's the best/worst example of a hometown babyface losing, his dying sister at ringside of cancer. Fuck cancer. Still pissed off. I watched the show as it went out and I've never watched it back for that reason.

Edited October 27, 2024 by The Natural

[Technico Support]

Getting religion later in life is truly wrestling's greatest hustle.

[HarryArchieGus]

 

On 10/27/2024 at 5:41 AM, AxB said:

Davey Boy Smith dedicated a match in his hometown (home country, but you know how Americans are about thinking there's only one city in Britain) to his sister (who was dying of cancer) and lost.

On 10/27/2024 at 6:20 AM, The Natural said:

WWF One Night Only 1997. I was so angry.

The Legacy of the Heartbreak Kid! 

On 10/25/2024 at 8:30 PM, Stefanie Sparkleface said:

Weird way to spell Las Cachorras Orientales but you do you.

This Shimoda/Mita team is blowing my goddamn mind! 

[ka-to]

On 10/28/2024 at 2:49 PM, HarryArchieGus said:

 

 

This Shimoda/Mita team is blowing my goddamn mind! 

You can double blow your mind with Dream Orca vs Tokyo Sweethearts. I started watching just after that time. I loved when I found some tapes of them. Tokyo Sweetheart (Toyota & Shimoda) vs. The Dream Orca (Yamada & Mita)

[Curt McGirt]

For those who didn't like how Danielson's Big Win ended: 

Tony could have always had him retire and... DO ANOTHER ENORMOUS TOURNAMENT. Maybe even... A NEW BELT?!

[twiztor]

On 10/25/2024 at 8:01 PM, HarryArchieGus said:

It seems somewhat clear the Jacksons and Omega won plenty of matches they would have preferred to have lost. They were all losing too many matches before Khan took the book after the Dark Order debacle. Tony has booked the Bucks strong because, love/hate em, they're over with a large part of the audience that buy PPVs and tickets. I include myself.  

i still maintain that Kenny & the Bucks had some sort of agreement that they would put over wrestlers for the first year and then move into their 'rightful' (YMMV) place at the top. It may not be true, but the Young Bucks won the tag belts almost exactly 1 year after Dynamite debuted, and Omega's World Title reign was shortly after that. 

[SovietShooter]

21 hours ago, twiztor said:

i still maintain that Kenny & the Bucks had some sort of agreement that they would put over wrestlers for the first year and then move into their 'rightful' (YMMV) place at the top.

I'd kinda throw Cody into this as well, with the whole "I will never challenge for the title" pledge. And it would not shock me if the fact that he said this out load and TK held him to it as the domino that led to Cody leaving.