AEW: Missed Opportunities.

[Leonidas]

I loved the Alien gimmick. I could imagine someone like Nigel completely buying into it explaining to Tony exactly which part of Alpha Centauri she comes from and Tony just deadpanning it all without being able to disprove her alien origins.

There's a number of people in AEW who really haven't "done much" in the last 5 years, Mox is right. Most of which mentioned already, but I think there is still time for that Johnny Hungie TNT title run, or Dark Order trios. Thing with trios is, they don't need to be held for long, give loads of people an opportunity for them.

Also Starks should've been a pillar, the guy has IT. Loved his matches with BD especially. It's a crime he hasn't been used in his peak for the past year. I bet he's chomping at the bit to actually wrestle and perform now.

[For Great Justice]

The Danhausen thing is strange, and I agree speaks to “something” happening that we don’t know about.

Like, Halloween is in 9 days - why isn’t this dude Svengoolie’ing an “AEW’s Spookiest Matches” bit on YouTube or something? It’s a layup. 

Edited October 22, 2024 by For Great Justice

[JLowe]

17 hours ago, Casey said:

AEWShop just released a Danhausen themed subscription mystery box. Diamond Select put out a statue of him just this month, so now he’s among Punk, Sting, Jericho, Mox and Danielson to get one.

Don't wanna book him, but they’re more than okay with making money off of him. I hope he’s getting the bag from all these different things.

I assume they’ve come to an agreement where they run out his contract so he doesn’t make a clean jump, but keep making and selling merch so he (and they) can both make money off it, and also letting him work indies and not burying him on TV. It’s pretty clear that he did SOMETHING to piss them off, but that they also see value in fulfilling his contract.

[BobbyWhioux]

Danhausen's Piper's Pit [Of Evil] really could've been a thing

[username]

5 hours ago, JLowe said:

It’s pretty clear that he did SOMETHING to piss them off, but that they also see value in fulfilling his contract.

At some point with as many people sent away to the phantom zone as there are we have to ask if maybe it actually is more of an AEW/Tony deal than all of them being jerks of some sort.

[mystman]

Since NXT is doing a show there in November, I think it was a huge missed opportunity for AEW not to run a show from the ECW Arena. 

[BEN!]

The lousy storytelling has been a problem forever.  Teams form, groups form, feuds start...they all just fade away rather than reach any kind of conclusion.

Darby Allin got his leg broken by Jay White and White was running around with Sting's bat.  Darby Allin comes back to set Jack Perry on fire and Jay White returns as a babyface to feud with Page who set Swerve's house on fire.

Which brings up the problem with stepping on their main angles.  Swerve got his house set on fire.  Jack Perry actually got set on fire and still won.  Danielson got bagged at the end of the last PPV.  Ospreay got stabbed in the head with a screwdriver underneath.

There's also always been a repetition problem with the show layout.

There was show in Miami where they did the babyface tries to get the heel to shake hands like three segments in a row.

Last Blood & Guts episode there was a run-in from behind on every segment out.

Feels like all the women debut the same.  Madison Rayne, Taya Valkyrie, Deonna Purrazzo, maybe Deeb too.  All debut as babyfaces.  Get beat by the champ immediately.  Then disappear and maybe come back as heels to do pretty much nothing.

Also, every show open, pop 30 grand worth of pyro, blah blah know what that means, and seemingly the first faces they show on camera are some old-ass white-haired white-bearded white guys scissoring.  Can't wait to watch something the lamest looking dudes around are super excited by.  I thought TK was big into CMLL.  Tell the cameramen to shoot one of the three women in the crowd instead.  Shit, plant some women in the crowd.  You got plenty backstage doing nothing.

I do enjoy when people make excuses for the ratings.  But there was a Kendrick Lamar concert on Juneteenth like AEW doesn't have the oldest whitest audience since Verne was running the Showboat.  I'm pretty sure the highest rated episode of Dynamite is still the first so whatever other sportsball or news event doesn't account for zero audience growth and houses that are half of what they were the previous year.

If Tony Khan weren't a coward Battle For The Belts would've been head up against a WWE TV show at some point.  Or get Collusion moved to Mondays next year to fill that Monday night cable wrestling vacuum and open up the weekends for house shows.

[Log]

10 hours ago, username said:

At some point with as many people sent away to the phantom zone as there are we have to ask if maybe it actually is more of an AEW/Tony deal than all of them being jerks of some sort.

There are probably a few wrestlers who have come in, some directly from WWE, and decided that they were going to call the shots for themselves from now on. Part of that is because that's what AEW was presented as to them. Come over here and get away from the oppressive micromanaging you're used to! But your ideas still have to be approved to be on tv, etc. If management isn't feeling it, you may get left in the cold. If you shoot down all of managements ideas for you, you may get left in the cold.

There are probably a few of them that maybe don't have the best ideas. Maybe some just have a different vision of what they should be doing than TK/AEW? Maybe a couple are jerks? Maybe Tony is being a jerk to some of them? Maybe some of them have only been presented with terrible ideas, so they're right in not going along with them?

I just don't think it's cut-and-dry one way or the other. Probably a combo.

[HarryArchieGus]

11 hours ago, BEN! said:

The lousy storytelling has been a problem forever.  Teams form, groups form, feuds start...they all just fade away rather than reach any kind of conclusion.

Darby Allin got his leg broken by Jay White and White was running around with Sting's bat.  Darby Allin comes back to set Jack Perry on fire and Jay White returns as a babyface to feud with Page who set Swerve's house on fire.

Which brings up the problem with stepping on their main angles.  Swerve got his house set on fire.  Jack Perry actually got set on fire and still won.  Danielson got bagged at the end of the last PPV.  Ospreay got stabbed in the head with a screwdriver underneath.

There's also always been a repetition problem with the show layout.

There was show in Miami where they did the babyface tries to get the heel to shake hands like three segments in a row.

Last Blood & Guts episode there was a run-in from behind on every segment out.

Feels like all the women debut the same.  Madison Rayne, Taya Valkyrie, Deonna Purrazzo, maybe Deeb too.  All debut as babyfaces.  Get beat by the champ immediately.  Then disappear and maybe come back as heels to do pretty much nothing.

Also, every show open, pop 30 grand worth of pyro, blah blah know what that means, and seemingly the first faces they show on camera are some old-ass white-haired white-bearded white guys scissoring.  Can't wait to watch something the lamest looking dudes around are super excited by.  I thought TK was big into CMLL.  Tell the cameramen to shoot one of the three women in the crowd instead.  Shit, plant some women in the crowd.  You got plenty backstage doing nothing.

I do enjoy when people make excuses for the ratings.  But there was a Kendrick Lamar concert on Juneteenth like AEW doesn't have the oldest whitest audience since Verne was running the Showboat.  I'm pretty sure the highest rated episode of Dynamite is still the first so whatever other sportsball or news event doesn't account for zero audience growth and houses that are half of what they were the previous year.

Some good points to be sure, but punctuating negatives with ratings is faulty. Ratings/Money isn't factored so simply by creative mishaps. Throughout WWE's current resurgence, AEW Dynamite has been most weeks the better quality show. It's interesting how all the best known wrestling critics have conflated Quality with Commerce. Does Billboard indicate the best music? Do Box Office receipts indicate the best movies? Each of the violent angles you pointed out above are pretty good reasons why families and more sensitive viewers don't watch AEW. That's certainly gonna cut into your attendance/TV numbers. WWE is currently succeeding with a product aimed to please the lowest common denominator while AEW is aimed at pleasing a wrestling audience. That's not at all to say their aren't plenty of follies and ways for AEW to improve. Promotionally speaking alone WWE is clearly the stronger company - it's the widest division between the two companies. No matter what the competition on Wednesday nights, AEW is battling for viewership against 6-10 hours of WWE programming every week. The ratings results for this 5 year old company versus the McDonalds of pro wrestling are pretty damn remarkable.. The contract AEW just signed for hundreds of millions of dollars pretty well proves that. 

I couldn't agree more on those opening crowd shots, but I don't agree the solution is to each week male gaze the women in the audience. Finding attractive looking ppl for occasional cut aways (if you must) is a no brainer and would certainly benefit the TV presentation. It's kind of astonishing that this production team would be so absent minded of this. 

Your complaint on women debuting the same over and over is a stretch. How did Mercedes and Mariah May debut? Rayne and Taya are lower card acts that you would inevitably use as enhancement. The booking strategy of using their bloom to put over a more important roster member is totally acceptable. Deeb isn't an example of your theory. Natural heel Deonna however, yeah, completely mishandled as a babyface. It was made worst by heel Champion Toni being the most over babyface in the Divison. 

I don't think the Blood n Guts 2024 booking is quite accurate, but the statement concerning repetition of the same stories is spot on. This has been an issue since day 1. The multitude of nightmare-ish collectives was perhaps our first example. That said, there's gonna be some lousy or incomplete storytelling when multiple TV shows run 52 weeks a year for 5 years. Teams/feuds starting/stopping is par for the course. I would suggest it's rarely without reason. injuries and egos being two often overlooked considerations. That said, your example of Darby and White is very good. White's aim on Hangman and Christian as more of a priority make enough sense to me. Jay wasn't around when Darby returned, so I don't see an issue with Darby taking a different target. I'd say there's a pretty good chance they come back to Darby/Jay at some point, but agreed that it's not clean storytelling. 

I find the whole 'missed opportunities' a bit tricky with the lack of behind the scenes transparency in wrestling and especially AEW. To me the biggest missed opportunity for AEW is (too often) not following up on characters/stories. Character-wise, a modicum of clarity of why a wrestler is no longer appearing week to week is a goddamn necessity. And a real true failure of the AEW creative process. I respect wanting not to disclose injury specifics, but again, understanding why said (especially pushed) person is not on television is an absolute necessity. The random disappearances are AEW's greatest weakness. Story-wise it took them nearly 5 years to start following up big angles/matches/events with packages etc. AEW has relied far too much on heavy lifting from Excalibur on commentary. It's a choice that has repeatedly failed to properly promote their stories. That said, I'm seeing a concerted effort of the last while, and it's a great push in the right direction.

Edited October 23, 2024 by HarryArchieGus

[Log]

31 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

It's interesting how all the best known wrestling critics have conflated Quality with Commerce. Does Billboard indicate the best music? Do Box Office receipts indicate the best movies?

This a million times!

Honestly, from a business standpoint, I'd say AEW's biggest missed opportunity has been marketing/promotion. I watch every week, and every time they've come near me, it's like I've stumbled on it accidentally after tickets were already on-sale.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

7 minutes ago, Log said:

This a million times!

Honestly, from a business standpoint, I'd say AEW's biggest missed opportunity has been marketing/promotion. I watch every week, and every time they've come near me, it's like I've stumbled on it accidentally after tickets were already on-sale.

Yeah, obviously the Punk stuff got a lot of play in this thread as the "biggest" miss but this really, really has to be up there. I'm going to Dynamite 5 miles from where I'm currently sitting in a couple weeks, and outside of TV I haven't heard a word about it, either from AEW itself or via local advertising. Meanwhile, WWE already has radio ads out for December shows in the area! Same for Grand Slam - the steady downsizing's been a real bummer.

[HarryArchieGus]

26 minutes ago, Log said:

This a million times!

Honestly, from a business standpoint, I'd say AEW's biggest missed opportunity has been marketing/promotion. I watch every week, and every time they've come near me, it's like I've stumbled on it accidentally after tickets were already on-sale.

This a million times x2. On top of that, not having the top guys on the show week to week, while featuring them on the paltry promotional materials (posters), has 'killed' so many towns. I've mentioned before, but I think Live Rampage/Dark Marathons and Colliison/ROH Marathons have exponentially hurt their attendance. A good reason to tape B shows in smaller venues. Further, having Wednesday crowds sleepwalk out after Rampage 'Main Events' isn't the lasting impression you wanna provide either. It's a small thing, but taping Rampage or the C show prior to Dynamite, and ending on either an exciting final Dynamite quarter hour or some kind of Dark match/appearance with top stars would no doubt provide at the very least a better closing memory. It's nice to think of how much stronger this company could be with some relatively small changes.

Edited October 23, 2024 by HarryArchieGus

[The Natural]

1 hour ago, Log said:

This a million times!

Honestly, from a business standpoint, I'd say AEW's biggest missed opportunity has been marketing/promotion. I watch every week, and every time they've come near me, it's like I've stumbled on it accidentally after tickets were already on-sale.

 

1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Yeah, obviously the Punk stuff got a lot of play in this thread as the "biggest" miss but this really, really has to be up there. I'm going to Dynamite 5 miles from where I'm currently sitting in a couple weeks, and outside of TV I haven't heard a word about it, either from AEW itself or via local advertising. Meanwhile, WWE already has radio ads out for December shows in the area! Same for Grand Slam - the steady downsizing's been a real bummer.

 

56 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

This a million times x2. On top of that, not having the top guys on the show week to week, while featuring them on the paltry promotional materials (posters), has 'killed' so many towns. I've mentioned before, but I think Live Rampage/Dark Marathons and Colliison/ROH Marathons have exponentially hurt their attendance. A good reason to tape B shows in smaller venues. Further, having Wednesday crowds sleepwalk out after Rampage 'Main Events' isn't the lasting impression you wanna provide either. It's a small thing, but taping Rampage or the C show prior to Dynamite, and ending on either an exciting final Dynamite quarter hour or some kind of Dark match/appearance with top stars would no doubt provide at the very least a better closing memory. It's nice to think of how much stronger this company could be with some relatively small changes.

In addition to this:

You run the risk of going to a show and not seeing your favourites which would put you off going again.

The merchandise at shows is by all accounts said to be shit.

Leaving money on the table there.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

16 minutes ago, The Natural said:

The merchandise at shows is by all accounts said to be shit.

This was definitely true at one time, but credit where it's due, they've upped their game tremendously in that area as of the last 2-3 cards I've attended - it used to be they might have a handful of shirts, a hat, and a hoodie, and that's it, but now they have all the usual trappings like replica belts, stickers, toys, keychains, etc. I got my better half a three pack of Willow friendship bracelets for 20 bucks last time, so that's a nice high margin item lol

[Zakk_Sabbath]

6 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Yeah, obviously the Punk stuff got a lot of play in this thread as the "biggest" miss but this really, really has to be up there. I'm going to Dynamite 5 miles from where I'm currently sitting in a couple weeks, and outside of TV I haven't heard a word about it, either from AEW itself or via local advertising. Meanwhile, WWE already has radio ads out for December shows in the area! Same for Grand Slam - the steady downsizing's been a real bummer.

Minor correction/addendum to the above: I just saw that I did get a Ticketmaster email about it, but it was listed third after Disturbed and whatever "Brooklyn Emo Night" is

[JLowe]

7 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Yeah, obviously the Punk stuff got a lot of play in this thread as the "biggest" miss but this really, really has to be up there. I'm going to Dynamite 5 miles from where I'm currently sitting in a couple weeks, and outside of TV I haven't heard a word about it, either from AEW itself or via local advertising. Meanwhile, WWE already has radio ads out for December shows in the area! Same for Grand Slam - the steady downsizing's been a real bummer.

The Philly Inquirer did a huge article about the most recent Raw in Philly and even mentioned how NXT was going to be at the former ECW “Arena” next month. Have never seen any mention of AEW even with the ROH tie-ins.

[twiztor]

1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

whatever "Brooklyn Emo Night" is

i am sorry i googled this.

[Nice Guy Eddie]

50 minutes ago, twiztor said:

i am sorry i googled this.

Eh, it sounds like fun if you're into emo and pop-punk. It's not my cup of tea, but to each their own. 

[BobbyWhioux]

8 minutes ago, Nice Guy Eddie said:

Eh, it sounds like fun if you're into emo and pop-punk. It's not my cup of tea, but to each their own. 

the right emo gimmick would have girls screaming at decibel levels not heard since prime Ricky Morton, speaking of missed opportunities.

(and indie rock elitist hipster snobs could so easily be their Midnightesque foils)

[Nice Guy Eddie]

6 minutes ago, BobbyWhioux said:

the right emo gimmick would have girls screaming at decibel levels not heard since prime Ricky Morton, speaking of missed opportunities.

(and indie rock elitist hipster snobs could so easily be their Midnightesque foils)

This gets me wondering if Jimmy Jacobs could have gotten his emo gimmick over as a face. 

[RazorbladeKiss87]

4 hours ago, BobbyWhioux said:

the right emo gimmick would have girls screaming at decibel levels not heard since prime Ricky Morton, speaking of missed opportunities.

(and indie rock elitist hipster snobs could so easily be their Midnightesque foils)

I'll be honest, a wrestling show that appealed to teenage girls right now would be insane. The girls at work are into such a weird variety of things. I let them control the speaker one night and the playlist went from "Mexican Radio" to Sexxy Red to Deftones to Grateful Dead and ended on 100 gecs.

[Death From Above]

On 10/17/2024 at 10:47 AM, The Natural said:

More should have been done with the Dark Order since the late great Mr Brodie Lee passed away. John Silver should have been a AEW TNT Champion and John S

Literally twice the Dark Order challeneged for the tag titles and pulled the same "This one is for Brodie" thing and lost anyway. At least the Bucks got that 400 day reign in, whew.

[BobbyWhioux]

17 hours ago, Death From Above said:

Literally twice the Dark Order challeneged for the tag titles and pulled the same "This one is for Brodie" thing and lost anyway. At least the Bucks got that 400 day reign in, whew.

Early on in AEW's history [back when we all thought Cody was doing the same thing], I remember thinking the Bucks were doing a clever job of getting in the ring and Hoganing it up whenever one of their fellow The Elite members would get a big [title] win and setting themselves up to be a great heel dragon for one of the young teams to slay.

Needless to say I eventually realized I was overestimating their self-awareness in these moments.

Edited October 24, 2024 by BobbyWhioux

[BobbyWhioux]

On 10/21/2024 at 11:24 AM, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I'll second this, though with the caveat that the resulting singles match between them was fucking tremendous and probably the best (or at least my favorite) of either's AEW catalogue. On a similar note, there was a period where Marina Shafir and Nyla Rose were really starting to gel as a team too, I thought they could've gone somewhere - and currently, the Deonna/Taya pairing is really grabbing my attention. Between ROH and AEW, you've got four women's singles belts, two sets of tag belts, and two sets of trios belts, but no women's Tag - make it make sense!!

There's no women's tag belts because the best women's tag team in the world was never signed by AEW and/or is still retired. 

 

[DreamBroken]

On 10/21/2024 at 1:35 PM, Technico Support said:

Also, related, Shaq never coming back for revenge is another miss.  He mysteriously disappeared from the ambulance and was never heard from again.

 

On 10/21/2024 at 2:02 PM, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Re: Shaq, here's a corporate synergy combo miss: they just announced Inside The NBA is coming back this season a couple days ago, and I thought they should've had him break the news on AEW TV by having an ambulance back into the arena and him getting out

Agreed.   Tony said it was Shaq's idea as he wanted an open ended cliffhanger to set up his eventual return and said it worked because people still talk about it 3+ years later.

As of a few months ago, Tony was still saying it will be a perfect entry point for when Shaq's ready to wrestle again