AEW: Missed Opportunities.

[stuntmanc]

On 12/4/2024 at 11:38 AM, tbarrie said:

Umm. Am I an outlier in thinking both Jungle Boy vs Luchasaurus matches were really good?

I saw their cage match live, it was fn awesome.

[Ryback Hates Bullies]

19 hours ago, just drew said:

Idk if this is technically a "missed opportunity" or not, but a few posts above I think it was greggulator who talked about all the guys TK brought in in 2021-22. One of the big flaws I see in Tony Khan's approach to booking is that he thinks everyone loves wrestling as much as him, and that everyone watches wrestling as much as him. It felt like he signed the UE guys so he could have the UE in AEW, rather than because those guys all have something to offer. Maybe other than Bobby Fish. It feels like when Vince McMahon signed Marc Mero, thinking he was getting Johnny B. Badd. The UE wasn't going to work as well outside of nxt. Rehashing old storylines and referencing old rivalries isn't wrong, in and of itself. I've compared wrestling to legit sports before. Hitters don't forget pitchers who have hit them repeatedly, even when they change teams. Shit, Hunter Strickland once threw at Bryce Harper over a grudge from at least a full season before. The problem is when the entire presentation is built around stuff that people did in other promotions.  

I think the train of logic was to run UE against the Elite, but then Adam Cole got injured and the stuff with Punk happened etc. Agree it was a mistake bringing in Fish & O'Reilly - Strong is a great hand and obviously Adam Cole had something - the extent he has it now I'm less sure. Tbh one reason I think having weight classes is a great idea was that you could stick Cole in the two bottom divisions and get something useful out of him.

I sort of hope Kyle O'Reilly gets MJF's ring and he becomes Champagne Kyle or something, tbh I doubt it'll work any better than Cool Kyle but it might be fun wrestlecrap.

[SovietShooter]

21 minutes ago, Ryback Hates Bullies said:

I think the train of logic was to run UE against the Elite

I think TK & Bucks wanted Adam Cole from the jump, and were going to do whatever it took to get him when his contract was up - even if it meant signing all his buddies. And, if you're going to sign them all, might as well do a UE vs Elite feud.

Injuries totally derailed everything with Cole.  He main evented Wembley...so that proved TK has a lot of faith in him, but man, that seems like something that I'm a decade will be a trivia question.

[just drew]

I've said this before, but since it came up; it's worth noting that ticket sales actually slowed at Wembley once Cole was announced for the main event.

[The Natural]

4 hours ago, just drew said:

I've said this before, but since it came up; it's worth noting that ticket sales actually slowed at Wembley once Cole was announced for the main event.

I genuinely didn't know that.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

On 12/6/2024 at 7:27 AM, just drew said:

I've said this before, but since it came up; it's worth noting that ticket sales actually slowed at Wembley once Cole was announced for the main event.

And what would have boosted them other than Ospreay vs Max? This feels like just another one of your many I don’t like Adam Cole so nobody should posts. 

Especially after I’d been agreeing with a lot of your recent statements and complimenting you on some of them. 

Oh and look here’s a tweet with a real update after they announced the match you claim wasn’t drawing:

 

Edited December 7, 2024 by Just Adam Bay Bay

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Yeah I was gonna say tickets didn't move in as high of quantity after that match was announced as they had been before. But that's not due to the match being announced. That's due to them nearing capacity already by that point and not as many tickets left to be sold.

That's some agenda twisting of the facts. It's not like they announced the match in July and people stopped buying tickets. Tickets were nearly gone by the time the match was announced. So not a true data point.

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Yeah I was gonna say tickets didn't move in as high of quantity after that match was announced as they had been before. But that's not due to the match being announced. That's due to them nearing capacity already by that point and not as many tickets left to be sold.

That's some agenda twisting of the facts. It's not like they announced the match in July and people stopped buying tickets. Tickets were nearly gone by the time the match was announced. So not a true data point.

That would be like the last WWE I show I went to where they announced Brock was coming and it added like an extra thousand tickets to the bottom line. Now someone with an agenda would say hey Brock isn’t drawing he only added a thousand tickets. In reality those thousand tickets were the only ones left to be sold. 

Plus he’s acting like it wasn’t obvious Cole vs MJF wasn’t the main event all along. Clearly it sold tickets because it’s Wembley. 

For fairness I think @just drew should post the Wembley numbers from this year too, and show how Bryan Danielson and Swerve drew. And how it drew once they announced it. Because guess what they drew less and not a small amount less either. But I’m not going around disparaging Swerve over it as I like him too. 

Edited December 7, 2024 by Just Adam Bay Bay

[just drew]

9 hours ago, Just Adam Bay Bay said:

And what would have boosted them other than Ospreay vs Max? This feels like just another one of your many I don’t like Adam Cole so nobody should posts. 

Especially after I’d been agreeing with a lot of your recent statements and complimenting you on some of them. 

Oh and look here’s a tweet with a real update after they announced the match you claim wasn’t drawing:

 

You understand that I don't post what I do so you'll react to it, right? It's great that you agree with me some now, and I sure enjoy not having unhinged accusations leveled at me, but this is a discussion board. You can't take this stuff so personally. You don't see me throwing accusations out at people every time someone says something negative about Mox. Adam Cole was brought up, and not by me. Also, if Tony Khan really believed Adam Cole was a draw, he'd have announced the main event for Wembley last year months before he did. 

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

1 hour ago, just drew said:

You understand that I don't post what I do so you'll react to it, right? It's great that you agree with me some now, and I sure enjoy not having unhinged accusations leveled at me, but this is a discussion board. You can't take this stuff so personally. You don't see me throwing accusations out at people every time someone says something negative about Mox. Adam Cole was brought up, and not by me. Also, if Tony Khan really believed Adam Cole was a draw, he'd have announced the main event for Wembley last year months before he did. 

So basically you pulled numbers out of your ass so you’d get some attention? Good to know. And how far in advance did he announce this years Wembley main event? 

Which again and you’re deflecting from it drew a smaller crowd than Adam Cole vs MJF did too. I’m done arguing with you though, because you’re clearly unable to have a good faith discussion without trying to make excuses. Nobody cares who else brought up Adam Cole as they didn’t claim he wasn’t moving tickets to Wembley. That was all you.

[RazorbladeKiss87]

To me, Okada is kind of a missed oppertunity. I just don't think he's got the appeal he had before coming in. Comedy heel doesn't do it for me. I especially hate him just calling everyone a bitch. Part of that is a conditioning thing because that's a word I've seen men literally get stabbed over and yet in AEW it's "Oh, isn't he funny when he's calling everyone a bitch?" 

I've seen people say that you couldn't just do the Rainmaker style matches on tv every week and, yeah, that isn't smart. He doesn't wrestle every week now. Big Rainmaker matches on PPV and during C2 season. Basically the NJPW way of booking him. 

At this point I almost wish he'd signed to WWE, just to see what they would do with him. 

[AxB]

He can't do Rainmaker matches on TV every week because the shows are only 2 hours long and have to have commercial breaks in. If you have one guy going 40+ minutes on every show, the rest of the roster wouldn't be getting a look in.

Now he did come off as a bigger deal in AEW when he was still a guest from NJPW, but that's because he wasn't there for 50 weeks of the year, and him showing up was an event. Nobody's "It's a big deal they're here, because it's so rare" survives once they become a regular fulltime cast member.

[Technico Support]

I always got the impression that Okada is "coasting" of his own volition, not any kind of mismanagement.

Edited December 9, 2024 by Technico Support

[RazorbladeKiss87]

12 hours ago, AxB said:

He can't do Rainmaker matches on TV every week because the shows are only 2 hours long and have to have commercial breaks in. If you have one guy going 40+ minutes on every show, the rest of the roster wouldn't be getting a look in.

Now he did come off as a bigger deal in AEW when he was still a guest from NJPW, but that's because he wasn't there for 50 weeks of the year, and him showing up was an event. Nobody's "It's a big deal they're here, because it's so rare" survives once they become a regular fulltime cast member.

Yeah, I get that and that's my point. He doesn't need to be wrestling weekly. Okada matches should be announced in advance and presented as something you had better get to the arena to see in person because the tv show won't do it justice. Couple that with smaller buildings making crowds look hotter and things would be a little different. 

[RazorbladeKiss87]

9 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I always got the impression that Okada is "coasting" if his own volition, not any kind of mismanagement.

If he's not motivated and is coasting, that's a management issue to me. 

[just drew]

So, I've been checking out some WWE stuff, so no one gets mad when I talk about how shitty it is, and one thing AEW consistently misses out on is presentation. I'm watching Iron Survivor right now, and WWE is doing a fantastic job of making every second count. Their entrances are phenomenal, and honestly, miles ahead of the in-ring product. AEW could use a significant upgrade from what they're doing now.

[The Natural]

Said this before and will again, AEW really need to upload full matches and full shows on their YouTube channel. WWE and NJPW do.

Edited December 9, 2024 by The Natural

[Just Adam Bay Bay]

52 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Said this before and will again, AEW really need to upload full matches and full shows on their YouTube channel. WWE and NJPW do.

My guess is something with their contract with Warner Bros prevents that. Especially as Warner has whatever percentage of ownership they do in the company. I think they’d rather monetize it by having those things on Max once AEW comes on there next month. Not that I’m sure how many AEW fans would buy Max monthly just to watch that content, but for someone like me that already has Max I’ll watch old shows I enjoyed if they get uploaded.

[stuntmanc]

18 hours ago, just drew said:

So, I've been checking out some WWE stuff, so no one gets mad when I talk about how shitty it is, and one thing AEW consistently misses out on is presentation. I'm watching Iron Survivor right now, and WWE is doing a fantastic job of making every second count. Their entrances are phenomenal, and honestly, miles ahead of the in-ring product. AEW could use a significant upgrade from what they're doing now.

I had absolutely no idea what an Iron Survivor match was prior, as I don't regularly follow NXT much, but you're spot on.  The presentation on it was lights out and really dod a great job of conveying the rules and stakes.  

[RazorbladeKiss87]

On 12/8/2024 at 6:52 PM, just drew said:

So, I've been checking out some WWE stuff, so no one gets mad when I talk about how shitty it is, and one thing AEW consistently misses out on is presentation. I'm watching Iron Survivor right now, and WWE is doing a fantastic job of making every second count. Their entrances are phenomenal, and honestly, miles ahead of the in-ring product. AEW could use a significant upgrade from what they're doing now.

Could they though? Who is going to not watch AEW because it doesn't look like WWE? I would argue that those fans are probably just going to go to WWE anyway. 

Now, if you say they need a change that doesn't steer them more towards WWE's high gloss, I'd agree but I don't think trying to match WWE is the answer. 

[SovietShooter]

7 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

Who is going to not watch AEW because it doesn't look like WWE? I would argue that those fans are probably just going to go to WWE anyway. 

IMHO, this should be kept in mind when criticisms of AEW are discussed. 

If I like the way the burger joint down the street makes their burgers, and a new burger joint opens up copying their style and recipie, I am probably just going to continue eating at the place I already know and like.

[just drew]

8 hours ago, RazorbladeKiss87 said:

Could they though? Who is going to not watch AEW because it doesn't look like WWE? I would argue that those fans are probably just going to go to WWE anyway. 

Now, if you say they need a change that doesn't steer them more towards WWE's high gloss, I'd agree but I don't think trying to match WWE is the answer. 

I guess I don't think that that's where they need to be different from WWE. There's a difference between looking identical and looking equal. 

[The Natural]

Timeless Toni Storm vs. Mariah May not main eventing AEW Revolution 2025. Both earned that right as the best feud in AEW history and one of the best matches in company history as well. It would have been the first time women headlined a PPV. There's a more than likely chance you don't get a hot women's match to again. You also get the AEW Women's World Championship joining the AEW World Championship, AEW TNT Championship and AEW International Championship going on last. Instead we got an awful Jon Moxley vs. Cope main event.

Death Riders going so long. I'd say it's the worst thing in AEW history especially as it's the main event scene. Tony Khan should call an audible and concede defeat than double down on it. No shame in holding your hands up that you've got it wrong. This shit isn't going to end till AEW All In Texas. That's not till July and this started at AEW All Out in September 2024. Fuck.

[The Green Meanie]

55 minutes ago, The Natural said:

I'd say it's the worst thing in AEW history especially as it's the main event scene.

Normally, I'd agree, but I actually like the people involved. The Elite having a stranglehold on the first three and half years of the company's existence gets my vote.