Double or Nothing V - 5/28/2023

[EVA]

2 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

 

Doing Taya that dirty not so much. You build to the match on the basis that she got cheated in the previous match as her finish was banned. It's legal here, and Jade kicks out of it at 2 anyway, pops up, hits the same move for a clean three. Meanwhile, she's gone by the time Stat has come out and beaten Jade. Total afterthought.

 

 

This doesn’t undermine the afterthoughtness of it all, but Taya was actually at ringside for the whole Stat/Jade thing. In one of the hardcam shots, you can see her in the far right corner while Stat is celebrating in the confetti. AWKWARD.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

2 hours ago, EVA said:

This doesn’t undermine the afterthoughtness of it all, but Taya was actually at ringside for the whole Stat/Jade thing. In one of the hardcam shots, you can see her in the far right corner while Stat is celebrating in the confetti. AWKWARD.

Damn, I missed that - painful to even read, so glad I did. It would've been nice if someone had the foresight to get a shot of her laying there looking forlorn while the confetti fell to use for a later package if she challenges again for either title, or for a 'Work my way back to #1 contender' series of matches

[The Natural]

 

Edited May 30, 2023 by The Natural

[The Natural]

This moment and match need talking up more. Dr. Britt Baker vs. Kris Statlander at AEW All Out 2021.

Edited May 30, 2023 by The Natural

[StuntmanCrowley]

49 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

Damn, I missed that - painful to even read, so glad I did. It would've been nice if someone had the foresight to get a shot of her laying there looking forlorn while the confetti fell to use for a later package if she challenges again for either title, or for a 'Work my way back to #1 contender' series of matches

I wouldn't be upset if we get a Taya/Stat series based around "I wore her down and you vultured the barely breathing carcass" idea

[HarryArchieGus]

Whoops, accidentally posted my show thoughts in the May thread. Sorry for the 2x post...

This was a difficult show to enjoy at times, but FFWD provided friendly service wherever needed. Hardys/Hook v Ethan Page/Gunns was good and solid on the pre-show. Ethan Page wrestled a nice match. Hook and the Gunns seem to be progressing. I get the arguments concerning Jeff Hardy, and whether he should even be wrestling. But he is, and I thought he worked hard here. I sensed the top rope misfire was deliberate, but perhaps I'm wrong. I read it as his doing the Omega rusty return deal. Maybe commentary just sold me on the idea? The Blackjack Battle Royal was not booked for me. The sheer volume of battle royals suggests Coach Tony is a fan of this concept. I joined this in progress right at the Final Five. Dustin’s Canadian Destroyer on Brian Cage was thrilling spot. The Final Four was terribly fun. Orangeman and Swerve were magic. I jump cut through Cole v Jericho and found nothing but tedious nonsense at each stop. I was happy to see Sabu, but the shitty brawl to open was stale and contrived. Truly ‘Bad Creative’ on the finish. FTR v Jarrett/Lethal provided a nice antidote to the previous. Each of the four players contributed terrifically. Karen Jarrett fucking rules! And Briscoe is a near perfect performer in whatever role he is given. The Ricky Starks promo featured the Bullets attack and an earnest FTR save. Bullets v FTR is a match I will be pleased to see. Wardlow v Christian was a nicely worked (ugh) 'Ladder Match'. I really, really dislike Ladder Matches. Wardlow playing the fool on the ladder with the patented nonsensical slow climb. The nonsensical slow climb being the main reason I Quite Dislike this overused match. All that said, Arn was awesome as usual. Can they bring back Tully already!? I was seemingly a higher voter than most on House of Black v Ass/claimed. I enjoyed the House's dominat victory. Kinda lame to have commentary react like the Acclaimed were surprise challengers. Jade v Taya was the best Jade match I can remember in awhile (including the better competitive squashes). Jade v Statlander was a nice surprise but felt a bit empty. It did provide a nice moment for the live crowd. Maxy v Sammy v Darby v Jacky was good. The Darby entrance was a fucking goofy. I don’t want to complain about the Sammy entrance, but I do worry about Sammy going Babyface and the Weird Vibes sure to follow. MJF’s Devil mask is pretty goddamn silly. The ‘Cosplay’ entrance costumes often featured on AEW PPV always look oafish to me. But somebody must be into them, right? I loved hearing Taz mention MJF’s love of Chris Candido on the Blonde Bombshell. I’d forgotten about that obvious comparison. Chris Candido was fucking awesome. A lot of good stuff in the 4 way. Some stuff cutesier than I care for. Four Ways are not really for me, but this was pretty good use of the multi-man single pin concept. That said, I really wish this company ran 3 and 4 ways as elimination matches. The Elite v BCC was ruined in the first section on first viewing by the rotten rendition of 'Wild Thing'. Holy fucking shit man! What was up with that singer’s face? Was it black face? A black face mask? Truly, truly awful! That easily topped Cody’s horrendous band entrance years back. I need a second spin of this Anarchy in the Arena - with the first portion on mute. It certainly picked up. I dug that exploding superkick. And the fucking Jacksons were dying for their art out there, even for all their relentless salty haters! A foot in thumbtacks is good hardcore to me. I can feel that pain. Superkicking that shithead singer would've been a bit better if the guitarist wasn't laughing like it was some sort of joke. I was very pleased to see Yuta get the pin. His earlier pin attempt on one of the Bucks with the bridging suplex was clearly a 3 before Hangman broke it up. Glad they finally pulled the trigger on the Takeshita turn and duo with Callis. It's time to start the countdown clock on the Golden Lovers reunion. Geez, this was certainly hit and miss. At least when AEW misses the mark they tend to learn something. 

 

[AverageKong]

Jade vs Taya was weird for me. I wasn't expecting the cleanest performance, but everything that bothered me with the actual match were those outside pieces they tried to throw in. Sterling taking the dive. The awkward timing in the Leyla leg grab spot.

When it was Jade and Taya slugging it out and slamming each other around... I was pretty entertained. Probably the most we've seen Jade give up in a match and the most we've seen her actually bump for an opponent. Jade didn't make Taya's shit look all that good, but bc Jade has been so protected, her leaving her feet is such a visual at this point that it made everything seem super impactful. Was not expecting her to spring up onto that rope like that and fly right into those knees. Hated the finish. 

Huge fan of Statlander and it was heartwarming to see her return to a good response. She is that off-beat, indy sweetheart that the AEW audience loves. Another big, strong girl that can probably do a lot of good for Jade in the ring. Stat is a workhorse and if she can stay healthy I think she's probably worthy of being a double champion at this point. It would be an interesting story vs The Outcasts and after being plagued by injuries she kinda needs that legitimacy to rectify her absence. 

 

[HarryArchieGus]

Hit the save on the previous page, nothing, hit it again, and, uh, apologies.

Edited May 30, 2023 by HarryArchieGus

[HarryArchieGus]

On 5/29/2023 at 7:19 PM, Matt D said:

• FTR vs Triple J had a good finishing stretch but maybe went a bit long before that. I wasn't feeling the drama. Also, Dax in opening stretches is problematic. He's just not hitting stuff like he did a couple of years ago and hopefully they end up as heels soon where he can let Dash do a lot of that and just grind down on people. Can't wait for the follow up to the guitar shot on Aubrey.
• I kind of feel like you guys are sleeping on Christian vs Wardlow. It was better than I was expecting given your talking and the gimmick. I would have rather seen a straight up match but they had some clever spots and it rationalized Christian staying in it. I though the finish with Wardlow catching Christian off the ladder right into the power bomb was tremendous. Just an all time ladder match finish and I'm not sure why it's not getting more love. Wardlow's dive should be in the opening of everything but then I feel like Jungle Boy's cage dive is forgotten so who knows.

Ugh, every time I see an AEWTV intro video (not a fan of any), I wish Tony's ECW fandom led him towards an opening worthy of the Extreme. Full of beautiful spots and moments. Fuck lightning bolts and making faces. 

Spot on with the FTR analysis. It seems to be an unresolved issue since their return. 

I wish I liked the ladder match. Christian is a brilliant performer, and made the most of the situation. I mostly liked what they did. I just need to figure out how to get passed guys slowly climbing the ladder and wasting time for no reason. 

Can we all band together like the old days and WILL ladder matches out of AEW Existence!

On 5/30/2023 at 7:06 AM, Matt D said:

I’m midway through the 4-way (just got through the tandem submissions) and my god is it ever terrible. The least organic thing imaginable. 

I liked the match, but found myself wanting to like it more than I actually liked it during some of those contrived stretches. 

I forgot to even comment on Toni v Jamie. Was there a reason why Britt and new friend Shida were nowhere to be found while the Outcasts kicked the shit out of Hayter? Was there a backstage skit or something I missed where they were laid out? Seems like something I may have FFWD passed.

Edited May 31, 2023 by HarryArchieGus

[Dog]

You'd think after what happened to Dante Martin that Tony would have pumped the brakes on all these ladder matches, even if it was just in a reactionary way. 

[odessasteps]

I can see the logic of trusting Christian to lay out a ladder match with drama but is also safe. You'd think he would not want to risk any/more head trauma at his age and history. 

[Matt D]

Luchasaurus was there to take some of the bumps, but Christian still took a few nasty ones. 

[elizium]

Nothing freaks me out more in wrestling than dive spots off the top of rickety ladders. The way the ladder was wobbling on Wardlow before the senton onto Luchasaurus could have gone very wrong. I love blood, I love big stupid deathmatch spots with guys jumping off balconies through panes of glass, but ladder spots scare the shit out of me.

Edited May 30, 2023 by elizium

[DreamBroken]

18 hours ago, username said:

I will go the other way and say that you basically waste a multi-year win streak not by having them lose to a surprise, but have it happen after they already wrestled a match. Can you imagine if Joe's win streak, or Goldberg's, or whoever's ended after they already wrestled a match and had to unexpectedly wrestle another with no preparation? Can you imagine if that was how Roman's reign were to end? I'll also note there's a reason most of the MITB winners got a pop when they won but weren't particularly successful as champs afterwards.

Agreed. Honky Tonk Man wasn't dominating every challenger in sight, not to mention having never lost ever.

It was a shitty cheap ass way for a "babyface" victory, without the crutch of the briefcase to excuse it.

[John E. Dynamite]

29 minutes ago, DreamBroken said:

Agreed. Honky Tonk Man wasn't dominating every challenger in sight, not to mention having never lost ever.

It was a shitty cheap ass way for a "babyface" victory, without the crutch of the briefcase to excuse it.

Joe, Goldberg, Roman, all World Champions having well-received reigns. This was for a midcard belt with people sick of the reign, and those are huge distinctions. Jade went Double or Nothing at Double or Nothing and paid for it. Thematic relevance trumps all.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

Was there one match on Double or Nothing 2023 that was a really good straight-up pro wrestling match with a clean, satisfying finish and without a bunch of (unnecessary) bells and whistles? I'd argue that there wasn't.

MAYBE the preshow match? "Really" good is a bit of a stretch... Ethan Page did some really good wrestling. I'd, personally, argue that at this point Jeff Hardy qualifies as an unnecessary bell and whistle.

I very much enjoyed the Blackjack Battle Royale, but in my opinion that was not a straight-up pro wrestling match.

I'm not trying to be controversial,but in my opinion Wizard vs Bay Bay was neither straight-up nor really good.

There was, of course, some good wrestling in the FTR match but it was a Jarrett match and as such it was non-stop prowrestling bullshit and there was virtually zero chance of a clean satisfying finish and we all knew that going in. It's not for me, but that's fine. I'm not arguing that there should be ZERO matches of this type on a PPV, just that it would be very nice to also get one clean straight-up pro wrestling match in addition.

Again, not trying to be controversial but ladder matches with biting are not straight up pro wrestling, as far as I'm concerned.

POSSIBLY if Hayter had been healthy her match would have been straightforward and hard-hitting... But probably it still would have been built around Saraya interfering. Regardless of circumstances, we didn't get our straight-up very good match here.

House Rules came pretty close, certainly there was really good wrestling going on. but probably you noticed some wildly unnecessary bells and whistles in the background of this one. 

If you consider Jade vs Taya and Jade vs Stat to be two separate things... MAYBE Jade vs Taya? But as a whole it seems to have left a significant number of people unsatisfied. Good wrestling, nice surprise, somewhat unsatisfying booking, in my opinion.

The Pillar Fight was, like the Jarrett match, never intended or expected to finish clean. It's the current  champ's deal, and that's fine. Certainly a very enjoyable match.

Anarchy was never meant to be straight-up, obviously. The Takeshita thing does not, in my book, qualify as a clean finish. Still enjoyed the hell out of it.

Again: Not asking for zero bells, zero whistles, zero bullshit, zero fuck finishes. Just wishing we could get ONE match where the wrestling was allowed to stand on its own and the finish was determined by actual wrestling. People used to complain that AEW gave us TOO MUCH of that! Possibly they are overreacting in the opposite direction now.

DoN 2019 had Cody vs Dustin. Bloody, but straight-up. Clean finish. Great story. 

2020 had Mox vs Brodie Lee, 2021 had Bucks vs Mox & Kingston and Shida vs Baker. Last Year we got Punk vs Hangman. Hopefully I am not misremembering and all of those had relatively clean finishes. Probably I'm misremembering, but... You get the idea.

 

 

Edited May 31, 2023 by Gordlow

[BrianS81177]

After waiting a couple of days and re-watching a few things:

Buy-in: Man the Hardys are looking rough. I think Jeff would be better off just not wrestling any more. He had a faraway look on his face like he didn't really wanna be there. Matt looks like he's in tremendous pain whenever he moves. I think Matt could still offer a little bit as a manager who interferes every now and then and only wrestles when he's forced to in storyline, but they need to not be so active anymore. Also this whole angle with Ethan Page and Matt feels like it's been going for like 2 years.

Battle Royal: as far as battle royals go, this one was pretty fun. I was hoping Starks or White would win it to give that feud something new to keep it from getting too stale but I have no problem with OC winning. Swerve is so great and is one of my absolute favorites to watch right now. The man needs a rocket attached to his back. I think I'm most glad they didn't do the tired "2 biggest guys in the match turn around and have a stare down while everyone else just stops and watches" bit because it's so played out. At this point I dunno what else you do with Orange though. Dude has beaten like 2/3 of the active male roster at this point.

Cole vs Jericho was such a mess. Adam Cole seems like a really good dude IRL and when he's in with smaller guys I like him a lot (like his stuff vs Orange or Jungle Boy). But I just don't buy him as an asskicker. This whole match just felt off. It was like they practiced and planned a bunch of stuff they wanted to but just could not get on the same page when it came time to do it. I still don't really get the point of Sabu being involved other than a nostalgia pop. Even then, RVD would have made more sense as he at least has a little history with Jericho and probably could have done a little more than Sabu's fall of the top rope. To be clear I don't wanna come across as shitting on Sabu too much. The fact that he's even walking upright considering everything he's done is amazing and good on him for getting a payday. I just don't think this angle was the right one to involve him in. JR was getting just awful during this too, making sure everyone knows that Cole and Britt aren't married. I'm a little surprised he didn't say "Living in sin".

I enjoyed the tag title match, but to be fair I am a total sucker for Jarrett's routine right now. It was an overbooked clusterfuck, but unlike the Cole/Jericho match it was a well done overbooked clusterfuck. I'm guessing this leads to Mark starting a feud with Jarrett trying to draw Lethal away from the dark side. Nice to see a little payoff with Jarrett/Lethal's repeated run ins with Aubrey Edwards get paid off. As long as Aubrey and Karen don't try and wrestle. Let Aubrey get someone to help Mark fight Jarrett and company but keep her out of the ring. I'm guessing FTR are moving on to be a part of the Starks vs Bullet Club gold story so maybe we see a new BC member soon?

I really wanted to like Wardlow vs Christian and while neither of them really did anything wrong, all the nonsense with Arn and Luchasaurus at the end really dragged it down for me. Christian can still work and bump his ass off and Wardlow's swanton off the ladder was a sight to see but Arn sucking on Luchasaurus' thumb for what felt like 5 minutes (I know he was supposed to be biting it but it didn't look that way) just took me out of it. Nice spot at the end with Wardlow catching Christian and powebombing him. If they had just kept it simple (have Arn hit Luchasaurus with a chair or something and put him down) I think the match might have felt better.

Women's title was what it was. Hopefully Hater can recover in time to have a rematch at Wembley with 65,000+ cheering her on.

I don't get why they didn't just announce Acclaimed vs HOB before hand. It was so obvious leading up to the PPV. Max's line about Buddy was tremendous. It was a decent enough match but it felt like it just easily could have been on the buy-in or main eventing Rampage. The special rules don't really add much to HOB's trios matches in my opinion. I feel like this would have better served with 4-5 weeks of build.

Jade vs Taya had no mystery to it at all. As much as I like Taya and really wanted to see her win, it's been so obvious for so long that they were saving Jade for Statlander that I knew she was winning. I was a little surprised by Stat coming out and doing the Hogan/Yoko quick surprise title switch. Statlander deserves it so much and I'm happy for her but I'm kinda torn. On the one hand, like I said Statlander deserves it but on the other hand I feel like snapping a 2 year undefeated streak should have been something that was built up as a big deal, not done as a surprise. Hopefully Taya doesn't get pushed aside as they could easily turn her heel and have her chase Statlander saying how she softened Jade up.

It cracked me up how everyone but Jungle Boy got a special entrance. Sammy got to announce the pregnancy, Darby had his video, MJF had the descending throne... Jack just walks out like always does. It was a fun match that made all 4 look good. I didn't think Jungle Boy or Sammy had any real shot but I thought they might pull the trigger on Darby. I'm good with the way MJF won though. Especially since I feel like you can use it to set up a Darby-MJF match with some high stakes. Maybe MJF makes Darby risk Sting's career or something.

Main event was.... eh? Fucking band played Wild Thing waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyy too long (Bucks should have super kicked them 4 or 5 minutes earlier). Too many missed shots. If they're going to do these wild all over the place brawls they should plan out ahead of time so the production truck knows who to follow. So many things that should have been a finish but weren't. Exploding Superkick should have put Mox out of the match for good, even though it did look cool. Matt's barefoot thumbtack landing was brutal to watch. Takeshita interfering at the end was a good idea in theory, but the crowd didn't seem to give a shit. Crowd didn't seem to give a shit about anything really. Might be time to take the PPVs to some other areas. A PPV from Arthur Ashe would be awesome.

All in all, a decent show but it felt like a really long episode of Dynamite and not a can't-miss event.

 

 

[S.K.o.S.]

14 hours ago, Matt D said:

I’m midway through the 4-way (just got through the tandem submissions) and my god is it ever terrible. The least organic thing imaginable. 

This might be the most I've ever agreed with you about a show. I also loved the ladder match!

I don't inherently hate spotfests, or cutesy contrived sequences.  I said on Twitter that I kept hearing "well the build's been bad, but these 4 will probably still have a great match." I might have enjoyed it more if people had been saying "they'll probably still have a great spotfest." Or like, maybe if this match hadn't been for the title, and it was the opener. My brain just can't process that they did THAT as the ppv world title match.

[Go2Sleep]

Normally AEW throws together the bottom 2/3 of a ppv card, but the in-ring action picks everything up. This time, they actually built every match (save the trios) for a month plus, but the in-ring action fell flat for most of the show. Didn't help that the crowd was dead for most of it. Hopefully AEW won't go back to Vegas for a while.

Jeff Hardy is totally washed. No idea where the angle with Ethan is going.

The battle royal was the one undercard match I thought was entertaining from start to finish. Bill was good in the hoss role, the teams worked together in sensible ways, a few different stories were featured, and Swerve is always ready when his number is called and delivers a great performance. I'm glad OC's streak didn't end in a battle royal, but I wouldn't mind if Swerve beat him in a proper singles match soon.

Cole and Jericho are really bad at pretending they hate each other. The Roddy/Jericho FCA match on Dynamite was 100x more hate-filled than this, and that was a semi comedy match. This was easily the lamest and least worthy unsanctioned match AEW has run. Britt's cameo was the only thing worth a damn. That finish was whatever the opposite of a masterclass is in worked punches.

FTR/JJJ feud has had great promo segments, but they oddly have no in-ring chemistry. Dax/Jarrett singles a few weeks back was underwhelming, and this was pretty boring too. At least Briscoe made his stand and the feud should be over.

Wardlow is oddly good at ladder matches, but Christian is clearly getting too old for them. Arn/Luchasaurus spot was the bad kind of cheesy.

The Trios match was way too long, and the first HOB match I can think of that actually dragged. The Dom shout-out was pretty good, though.

It sucks that Jamie Hayter is hurt and they had to run an identical angle to Christian/JB last year. Even with this quiet crowd, you could feel the pre-match sucking the air out of the arena. Also, Toni's great, but I would've liked to see one of the other two get the gold here if this was the angle.

The Jade angle made no sense. If they knew Stat was coming back, why didn't they blow off the heatless Taya feud sooner and actually build a real moment for Stat?

The Fatal 4 Way was really good in-ring stuff as expected, despite some mis-steps with the build. The finish was brilliant and silly at the same time. I don't know why they got cold feet on giving them the last spot.

AITA was fine. Kenny doing Captain America cosplay with the trash can lid was awesome and should've been given more time. Felt like Danielson was being a bit more cautious in this one. Matt Jackson definitely upped his hardcore cred with the barefoot tack spot. Even though it was cheap, I dig Wheeler getting the pin on Kenny at the end. Nice little rub for the guy who usually takes all Ls for the BCC.

 

[Shartnado]

OC survived!

I think I would have preferred a straight up singles match between Cole and Jericho, but I certainly don't prefer a continuation of any of that.

I slept through the end of the tag title match and everything but the ending of the ladder match, must revisit them later.

Toni wins! Hell of a fight by Hayter, though!

Will Taya turn now? Statlander!!! Finally, the TBS title becomes a real championship, not a vanity belt.

Trios match was excellent! Perfect use for Billy Gunn! The strong AND the weak link at the same time!

Holy Shit the 4-way Pillars Match! Fucking Epic!

Not drinking yet, so Anarchy can wait for now!

[AxB]

According to people who were in the building, the crowd was deafeningly loud all night.

[HarryArchieGus]

10 hours ago, Gordlow said:

Again: Not asking for zero bells, zero whistles, zero bullshit, zero fuck finishes. Just wishing we could get ONE match where the wrestling was allowed to stand on its own and the finish was determined by actual wrestling. People used to complain that AEW gave us TOO MUCH of that! Possibly they are overreacting in the opposite direction now.

Absolutely. Outside interference, beyond-logic-incompetent refs, and all thee 'bells et whistles' are being applied nonstop and ad nauseam. Seeing as the P(ay)PV reps the end of a cycle it shouldn't be a big ask for some straight up wrestling with a satisfying finish. 

[Dolphman 3000]

1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Absolutely. Outside interference, beyond-logic-incompetent refs, and all thee 'bells et whistles' are being applied nonstop and ad nauseam. Seeing as the P(ay)PV reps the end of a cycle it shouldn't be a big ask for some straight up wrestling with a satisfying finish. 

I feel like Will Washington having no experience in writing is going to bite them in the ass.

Tony's on the right track by wanting someone like Chris Kreski to plot out long-term storylines, but Kreski had a decade of television writing under his belt by the time he got to WWE. Washington has probably never even seen a storyboard.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Dolphman 3000

[Zimbra]

1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Absolutely. Outside interference, beyond-logic-incompetent refs, and all thee 'bells et whistles' are being applied nonstop and ad nauseam. Seeing as the P(ay)PV reps the end of a cycle it shouldn't be a big ask for some straight up wrestling with a satisfying finish. 

I really think AEW's insistence on having everything end on pinfall or submission has become counterproductive.  Having the occasional DQ or countout is fine and is preferable to making the refs and wrestlers look like jackasses.

[Jrag]

I watched the battle royal, four way and main event and they were all fun not great. No interest in anything else at the moment and honestly outside of OC there is no one doing must watch stuff right now. 
 

Happy to see Danielson taking it easy although I suppose he could have taken a few stupid bumps off camera with how often they were missing stuff.

Main event was probably the best thing on the show, but my god the blackface singer nonsense…. hard to recover from that. Tony needs a right hand man to tell him when something is awful he clearly doesn’t get it.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Jrag