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AEW - MAY 2023

Dolfan in NYC
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JLowe

JLowe

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13 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

So who knows their shit and who does not?

I don’t know about wrestling, I kind of assume everyone is getting worked, it’s why I don’t really have an opinion until things are announce/happen. But in terms of football, the local sites are the place to go because they aren’t access based. National guys don’t know shit, they get a tip from their friends or people trying to make things happen. 

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StretchMediatedHypertrophy

StretchMediatedHypertrophy

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Posted (edited)

In all seriousness, giving up Omega and Page to WWE would probably be a mistake. Yeah they might work out, they might not - but that's not a chance I would take.

Edit: Oh yeah The Bucks. Hmmm WWE has the Usos, Owens/Zayn, New Day and Street Profits just below them. Not sure I would just give those matches to WWE but that's me.

I'll be quite honest, I'd run the Chicago building come what may, say fuck it run MJF vs Hangman & do the title change, Skye Blue vs Hayter, & Mad Man Pondo vs Moxley underneath.

Edited by SprintingFromAmerica
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Dolphman 3000

Dolphman 3000

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6 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

If we got a Bret appearance with him calling AEW a bunch of jam-up guys most of us would lose it.

I don't think Bret and Martha could co-exist in the same company at this point

He *might* agree to show up at Wembley if she's not there

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odessasteps

odessasteps

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1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

Gotta love them going aaaaaaaall the way from Calgary, back to... Newark.

If we got a Bret appearance with him calling AEW a bunch of jam-up guys most of us would lose it.

There’s a week inbetween those dates. In 1985, it would have been the next night.

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Krone

Krone

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If we took CM Punk off the table, is there anybody reasonable out there that could actually move tickets for AEW? You would think with their bolstered roster of top level talent that they have more than enough names sans Punk to draw pretty well but it seems like they don't and that makes me wonder why? You have Jericho, Moxley, Danielson, and even Jeff Hardy as big ex-WWE names that were main roster attractions who you think would be good enough. Add in some FTR, Adam Cole, Christian Cage, Miro, plus the AEW guys like Kenny, Bucks, Hangman, Darby, MJF, etc. you'd think they have enough bullets in their gun to draw fairly well right?

This is also me strictly looking at those Collision tickets, because if Punk isn't coming in all of those names are on the table to be on the show I'd imagine.

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Dolphman 3000

Dolphman 3000

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3 minutes ago, Krone said:

You have Jericho, Moxley, Danielson, and even Jeff Hardy as big ex-WWE names that were main roster attractions who you think would be good enough.

Are you asking why one of WWE's top draws in the past 20 years has been booked so poorly in AEW that he's an afterthought?

Danielson has always said he just goes along with booking and doesn't play politics - Punk calls his own shots and rarely loses matches, so he's still an attraction. Danielson has lost countless times in the past two years.

Now, you can say Danielson is an extremely generous person for putting over younger talent. But no one wants to pay to see him lose or go 50/50 with an unknown. He's just another guy now since Tony books everyone in AEW like that, save for MJF and Punk.

PWG booking makes good matches, it doesn't make good stars.

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Krone

Krone

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8 minutes ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Are you asking why one of WWE's top draws in the past 20 years has been booked so poorly in AEW that he's an afterthought?

Danielson has always said he just goes along with booking and doesn't play politics - Punk calls his own shots and rarely loses matches, so he's still an attraction. Danielson has lost countless times in the past two years.

Now, you can say Danielson is an extremely generous person for putting over younger talent. But no one wants to pay to see him lose or go 50/50 with an unknown. He's just another guy now since Tony books everyone in AEW like that, save for MJF and Punk.

PWG booking makes good matches, it doesn't make good stars.

I don't think it's that though. I'm looking at his cagematch and he's lost to all reasonable main event people with the exception of Daniel Garcia over a year ago. Even Cena lost to Kevin Federline at one point during his height, so I feel there is a time and place for people to lose in storyline.

I wonder if it's because you don't know who or what you're going to get. Us hardcores appreciate a ton of the talent, but maybe for someone less familiar with the show - if it's not a given you'll see Kenny, Danielson, Moxley, Jericho, etc. wrestle that week or even have a long winded promo or segment that kind of makes you think twice about buying a ticket. However that's their 5-6 match model coming into play. That's just me throwing thoughts at the wall. 

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Casey

Casey

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33 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

This was a good listen.

Darby vs Jeff Hardy: certified draw! 

And if I remember right, only four people have ever consistently asked him how the shows were drawing: Austin, Rock, Jericho and Punk. I think that’s right, I know it definitely included Jericho and Punk.

People want to rag on the “I’m trying to run a business” thing from the gripebomb, but it’s always been pretty clear he cares a lot (maybe too much) about wrestling and the company he’s working for when he’s fully invested.

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John from Cincinnati

John from Cincinnati

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, Casey said:

And if I remember right, only four people have ever consistently asked him how the shows were drawing: Austin, Rock, Jericho and Punk. I think that’s right, I know it definitely included Jericho and Punk.

People want to rag on the “I’m trying to run a business” thing from the gripebomb, but it’s always been pretty clear he cares a lot (maybe too much) about wrestling and the company he’s working for when he’s fully invested.

Cena was on the list, not Rock.

Was a little surprised not to hear Cody’s name as in the past he’s said he likes to get the numbers for every show. Maybe he has different sources for that info.

Edit: I may need to track that interview down, but I think Cody got into the habit on account of Cena doing it

Edited by John from Cincinnati
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Octopus

Octopus

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1 hour ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Are you asking why one of WWE's top draws in the past 20 years has been booked so poorly in AEW that he's an afterthought?

Danielson has always said he just goes along with booking and doesn't play politics - Punk calls his own shots and rarely loses matches, so he's still an attraction. Danielson has lost countless times in the past two years.

Now, you can say Danielson is an extremely generous person for putting over younger talent. But no one wants to pay to see him lose or go 50/50 with an unknown. He's just another guy now since Tony books everyone in AEW like that, save for MJF and Punk.

PWG booking makes good matches, it doesn't make good stars.

Lots of interesting points here. I do think Danielson can be a big deal still/ again. Just watching the Iron Man match and seeing the crowd going nuts late into a match like that was so unbelievable. I love the BCC when they’re stomping fools but maybe having him as a lone tweener bully he wouldn’t be an “afterthought”. Probably not too late once we get BCC implosion post Elite. 🤷🏻‍♂️

Or in the BCC - Elite shenanigans they announce Danielson v Omega for Quake by the Lake 2 and give me front row seats and it hits Rikidozan tv ratings levels.

1 hour ago, Casey said:

And if I remember right, only four people have ever consistently asked him how the shows were drawing: Austin, Rock, Jericho and Punk. I think that’s right, I know it definitely included Jericho and Punk.

People want to rag on the “I’m trying to run a business” thing from the gripebomb, but it’s always been pretty clear he cares a lot (maybe too much) about wrestling and the company he’s working for when he’s fully invested.

I remember Dax saying he asked about ticket sales/ buys of the ROH PPV they had the Briscoes dog collar match. I don’t remember the numbers but enough of a bump he brought it up at least.

 

1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

This was a good listen.

Darby vs Jeff Hardy: certified draw! 

It’s interesting to think of the specific announced matchups that bring people in. 
 

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Octopus

Octopus

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Side note. If the Elite were to leave and Punk were to stay, what percentage of the audience would leave?  We can measure the bump CM Punk adds. It would be interesting to see the other side of the Venn Diagram.

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Dolphman 3000

Dolphman 3000

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4 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Side note. If the Elite were to leave and Punk were to stay, what percentage of the audience would leave?  We can measure the bump CM Punk adds. It would be interesting to see the other side of the Venn Diagram.

Looking at how ROH's TV ratings and live attendance fell in 2019 after The Elite left is a pretty good indicator

But then again, a good part of that could be attributed to Cody, and new episodes of Being the Elite now don't even get a fraction of the views that they were getting 3-4 years ago

It seems Kenny singles matches still draw well on Dynamite, but the Bucks by themselves or paired with Kenny do poorly

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NoFistsJustFlips

NoFistsJustFlips

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1 hour ago, Curt McGirt said:

Ooof, I completely forgot about Martha's involvement with the Owen Cup. Yeah Bret ain't showing. 

I believe Bret is under a Legends deal now and can't appear even if he wanted to. Happened quite awhile ago too. Unless I'm having some sort of faulty memory here. But I'm pretty confident in this one.

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NoFistsJustFlips

NoFistsJustFlips

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2 hours ago, Krone said:

I wonder if it's because you don't know who or what you're going to get. Us hardcores appreciate a ton of the talent, but maybe for someone less familiar with the show - if it's not a given you'll see Kenny, Danielson, Moxley, Jericho, etc. wrestle that week or even have a long winded promo or segment that kind of makes you think twice about buying a ticket. However that's their 5-6 match model coming into play. That's just me throwing thoughts at the wall. 

I think you hit on some good points. The rigid formula they use for TV only allows for a certain amount of people making TV every week. It's hard for some casuals to invest in spending money when they only get to see big stars every two or three shows. Even taping Rampage & Dynamite together (and counting Dark & Elevation when they had it) how many performers were missing each week? I dislike how WWE makes everyone feel like a nobody because they're on 52 episodes of TV a year generally. But there has to be a happy medium between that and only seeing 8 Kenny Omega matches in a year or whatever.

Not only is Punk a draw, but it is virtually guaranteed he'd be on every week of Collision. And I think that would make for better sales than having to guess like the Wednesday night tapings. But without him, it's a crap shoot. Only 500 tickets out in Hamilton is disaster levels bad. But we'll see where things are after Wednesday. If it's United Center & Punk is back, things will pick up. If it's Daily's place and no Punk, I think TK is gonna have to try a different approach to get eyes on the show.

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Dolphman 3000

Dolphman 3000

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2 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

If it's Daily's place and no Punk, I think TK is gonna have to try a different approach to get eyes on the show.

They could do the 2008 Flair thing and book Sting in career-threatening matches every show for the next few months leading up to his actual retirement match

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JLowe

JLowe

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18 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I believe Bret is under a Legends deal now and can't appear even if he wanted to. Happened quite awhile ago too. Unless I'm having some sort of faulty memory here. But I'm pretty confident in this one.

I remember that as well, and I think it happened around the time that Punk came in and he and FTR were talking about him/paying in-ring tributes.

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Casey

Casey

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2 hours ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Looking at how ROH's TV ratings and live attendance fell in 2019 after The Elite left is a pretty good indicator

But then again, a good part of that could be attributed to Cody, and new episodes of Being the Elite now don't even get a fraction of the views that they were getting 3-4 years ago

It seems Kenny singles matches still draw well on Dynamite, but the Bucks by themselves or paired with Kenny do poorly

I feel like comparing 2019 ROH to 2023 AEW in this scenario just doesn’t work. They can lose the Elite and still be fine because they have other names that people will stick around for. 

The Elite were far and away the biggest draws/names for ROH at that time. The same can’t be said about them in AEW, not anymore. An argument could’ve been made pre-2021 probably, but just Mox by himself is a bigger “draw” or whatever than anyone ROH was left with after the Bucks, Omega, Cody and Hangman left.

Nobody was ever going to stick around when the top talent was like, Scrull and Bandido and Dalton Castle or whoever.

AEW have contingencies in place if they leave in the form of bigger star power. ROH didn’t. It’s that simple.

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