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Ring of Honor - 2023

Matt D

By Matt D
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING

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NoFistsJustFlips

NoFistsJustFlips

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I do think there's some merit in the argument but it's just being stated poorly. I think the truth is the decline in AEW is an over saturation issue. Dynamite, Rampage, Battle of The Belts, Ring of Honor. There's a lot of TV being produced right now with no delineation or difference in presentations or identities. I don't like the brand split in WWE, but I also don't this quantity over quality like AEW is leaning into. AEW was strongest when they had just one flagship show and they tried to make it as awesome as possible every week.

Now things are trying to be threaded through multiple shows possibly with multiple week lags. It's just not as fun of a narrative to have to follow so many shows. ROH has mostly self contained narratives but it's messy because Claudio is also doing this other things with BCC. Lucha Bros are tag champs but also a trios with Vikingo now on the other shows. Any ROH performer can show up any given week on AEW and vice verse. Case in point Claudio vs Fenix is happening on Dynamite.

ROH was a smart purchase. The way it's being run currently is just not smart. The PPVs & subscriptions may be pulling in a technical profit (since ROH has no over head to pay out) but it is a net negative since it is helping drive down overall interest. TK is too beholden to what ROH once was to see what it could be. And I just don't think it's ever going to change.

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AxB

AxB

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AEW/ ROH has a huge roster. The more TV time they have to feature the wrestlers on it, the fewer people are sitting home while under contract.

Quantity vs Quality isn't neccesarily a "one goes up, one goes down" thing. You can crate a large quantity of high quality, if you have a lot of good people.

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HarryArchieGus

HarryArchieGus

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This era of ROH has been pretty consistently terrific. Sure, as has to be expected, it's not been without it's fumbles, and need for tweeks, but there's been so much great stuff. Man, what a treat for anybody catching up to be able to go thru this thread and read all of Dean's excellent reviews. 

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TheVileOne

TheVileOne

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Now that Dark and Elevation are gone, they are going to have to make the hard decision of making ROH the real AEW developmental and the home for guys they signed but have no ambition to consistently book in AEW, ie Josh Woods, Tony Nese, Serpentico, Mercedes Martinez, Luther, Dalton Castle, The Boys, and The Embassy.

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Dolphman 3000

Dolphman 3000

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4 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Now that Dark and Elevation are gone, they are going to have to make the hard decision of making ROH the real AEW developmental and the home for guys they signed but have no ambition to consistently book in AEW, ie Josh Woods, Tony Nese, Serpentico, Mercedes Martinez, Luther, Dalton Castle, The Boys, and The Embassy.

Meltzer's report yesterday said Rampage is going to become the new Dark, basically with younger talent - Dynamite/Rampage will tape Wednesdays and Collison/ROH will tape on Saturdays:

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/update-on-future-direction-of-aew-rampage

 

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porksweats

porksweats

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18 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Now that Dark and Elevation are gone, they are going to have to make the hard decision of making ROH the real AEW developmental and the home for guys they signed but have no ambition to consistently book in AEW, ie Josh Woods, Tony Nese, Serpentico, Mercedes Martinez, Luther, Dalton Castle, The Boys, and The Embassy.

ROH has really revitalized The Infantry!

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TheVileOne

TheVileOne

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3 hours ago, Dolphman 3000 said:

Meltzer's report yesterday said Rampage is going to become the new Dark, basically with younger talent - Dynamite/Rampage will tape Wednesdays and Collison/ROH will tape on Saturdays:

https://www.f4wonline.com/news/aew/update-on-future-direction-of-aew-rampage

 

Misguided with Rampage airing on TNT, but OK. 

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Octopus

Octopus

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With ROH having its own streaming service, it’s smart to keep it going with good matches and roughly it’s own brand (Athena being a badass). If WBD is happy enough with Rampage becoming more like Velocity with a marquee main event, especially with the addition of a CM Punk lead show on a different night, that’ll likely work out well enough. AEW’s Dark branded matches will become literal dark matches or a rise of house shows to give the young guys reps. It’s also likely we see less Dark talents’ contracts not being renewed. Annnnnd/Orrrrr make deals with local feds to be the AEW farm league.

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HarryArchieGus

HarryArchieGus

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So stoked for this next round of episodes. No spoilers, just the matches in the bubble below. An answer to the question @zendragon raised a page back. I've Bolded some hot and steamy bouts I'm most looking forward to.

Spoiler

Tag Team Match

Tag Team Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Tag Team Match
Singles Match
Fight Without Honor Tag Team Match

 

 

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JLowe

JLowe

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35 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

So stoked for this next round of episodes. No spoilers, just the matches in the bubble below. An answer to the question @zendragon raised a page back. I've Bolded some hot and steamy bouts I'm most looking forward to.

  Reveal hidden contents

Tag Team Match

Tag Team Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Singles Match
Tag Team Match
Singles Match
Fight Without Honor Tag Team Match

 

 

I feel like there a couple of excellent women’s matches not bolted but not a bad match on that whole list as far as I’m concerned!

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Matt D

Matt D

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Ok, night 2:

I would bold what I'm excited about but it's basically everything.

Spoiler

 

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AxB

AxB

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So Lady Frost wasn’t on the taping, but her husband was?

Spoiler

Victor Benjamin, AKA The Savage Gentleman 

 

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Matt D

Matt D

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I'm caught up. ROH on Tuesday morning commute works pretty well for me with Elevation gone but it doesn't work well for the discourse, so we'll see moving forward. I can foresee catching up on ROH on Friday/Saturday and then watching Collision/Rampage on Sunday-Tuesday but again, that doesn't help me be social. AEW as a Monday-Friday promotion worked a lot better for me than as a Wednesday-Saturday promotion. Ah well.

  • Moriarty has definitely been on a hot streak the last few months. I get that every pure rules match can't play into the rope breaks as a central narrative, but I always like it when it does. Moriarty's limb selling was good here and worked to set up the finish. I liked Bill more or less neutered through the rules; he came into play a couple of times but didn't want to take the risk to get involved as much as he did last time. I do hope we get a rubber match here.
  • Loved the Skyfall onto the belt after Athena's mask. Risk looked pretty good for someone with less than 50 matches.
  • Joe vs Daniels was by the numbers but I liked some of the little bits, whether it be Joe's respect for Daniels relative to almost everyone else or Daniels just having a problem getting Joe over with a lot of his offense. From a kayfabe strategy level, he should have been trying to set up the BME but couldn't get Joe down long enough for it. 
  • Claudio vs Eagles was very good, sleeper match of the week actually. This goes back to Claudio being the godking of bases. The ace of bases, if you will. He doesn't just catch stuff, but he unlocks things that would be otherwise impossible. The little sequence out of the giant swing attempt was so good and Eagles leaned in hard to his sniper thing with the leg targeting. The finish was gnarly too with Claudio just powering his way into the Ricola Bomb unconventionally because he had enough.
  • 10 man tag could have gone another minute or two but was a lot of fun for what we had. I loved Maria and Woods interacting on the way out and really liked the few seconds of Woods vs Grayson we got. Davari made Andretti's finisher look like a million bucks. Taven is a guy who I like more in a specific sequence than a whole match. The hands-in at the beginning and the hug at the end were prime AEW stuff that they should do more of. 
  • Vance had some pretty cool stuff in his squash. I liked the slingshot wheelbarrow suplex and loved the full nelson right into the discus lariat, just like how Kerry would sometimes do the claw into the discus punch. 
  • Skye and Robyn hit pretty hard (not a surprise). They really played up Robyn knowing Skye's offense and it worked for the match.
  • Cage vs Brock felt wonky at times. I'm not sure about Cage bumping for those back elbows and while I always appreciate someone really having to work for a bodyslam, the execution of the sequence needed a bit more work. That said, these are the sort of matches Brock needs to be having every week.
  • Not sure about Willow vs Steph either. Steph has size and presence but is still stumbling about a bit. I don't know if it was nerves or if Willow just wasn't the best opponent for her. I'd like to see her against someone smaller like Skye. 
  • Ian called La Casita correctly in the Angelico vs Kommander match which made me happy. Even Excalibur doesn't do that. I could have used 25% less Kommander rope-walking and 25% more Angelico doing weird submissions. SAP's He-Man theme is always a treat though.
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HarryArchieGus

HarryArchieGus

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Spoiler

Oh man, this second set of tapings has some real potential barnburners as well. I've again bolded my most anticipated, but so many interesting bouts throughout. Looking forward to Thursday evening(s).

 

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Matt D

Matt D

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People are excited for tonight's Dynamite, and I'm glad for that, but let's look at tomorrow's ROH show too:

  • Athena vs Skye Blue: I know that Skye has had a match or two against Jade and some against the Outcasts but this seems like her biggest match to date since it's one where she actually has a chance. She swings hard and throws that knee and Athena has been living, breathing, moving fireworks for the better part of a year. They've had a few weeks to build to it and it should be really good.
  • Samoa Joe vs Blake Christian: Blake feels like the absolute perfect Joe opponent and vice versa. He's a guy who is all about hanging in there and fighting against adversity and there's no adversity quite like Joe. I really hope we get Joe walking away from the flop not that I want to see Blake take that bump or anything but it'd be a great visual.
  • Sonny Kiss/JeevSK/Slim J/Josh Woods vs Dark Order: I really liked how Woods and Stu matched up last week. You want to see Slim J against any of these guys. And everyone else has interesting and unique elements to their act. Should be a fun, quick moving 8-person tag with some Righteous shenanigans to keep building that story.
  • Anthony Henry vs AR Fox: Two guys who haven't faced each other since 2019. Very natural pairing though. Convoluted spots made to look good.
  • Claudio/Wheeler vs Tracy Williams/Rhett Titus: One of those matches that would have been impossible a few years ago but feels like a natural matchup now. Wheeler's far enough down the hierarchy that Williams and Titus should be able to stay in it and keep it interesting.
  • Mark Briscoe vs Shane Taylor: they crossed paths in 2016-2020, usually in a tag or six man, but it's a pretty novel 2023 match up. Hard-hitting, character-driven, just a lot of fun.
  • Willie Mack vs Ninja Mack: What a no brainer if you're going to use these guys.
  • Righteous vs the Infantry: I haven't seen much of the Righteous in actual competition as opposed to just squashes and this is a good way to push them to the next step against a team that can get some stuff in but still get swept under.
  • Kyle Fletcher vs Tony Deppen: The random Fletcher fly in. A lot to like here, seeing Fletcher in a singles match, untethered from any story I can imagine, having him try to scale Deppen who isn't going to put up with his attitude lightly.
  • Embassy vs Lucky Ali/Adam Priest/Victor Benjamin: People like Benjamin right? I don't think he'll get much in here but if the Embassy squashes are all fun and high-impact.
  • Robyn Renegade vs Vertvixen: Robyn's had some good showings lately. I'm glad this one is in front of the studio audience instead of a pre-show crowd though.

 

Edited by Matt D
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AxB

AxB

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Adam Priest is really, really good. But you can really tell who his favourite wrestler is very easily. He might as well nickname himself “The Alabama Crippler”.

Wheeler Yuta and Tracy Williams were a regular tag team for a while. Their team name was Hot Wheels.

Yuta and Lee Moriarty, meanwhile, were collectively known as Rush Hour.

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DreamBroken

DreamBroken

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Athena vs Skye Blue! That was the match I was looking forward to since last week's announcement. Great stuff! Went in thinking Skye had no chance, but rooting for her anyway even though Athena's reign is incredible and should continue, but just expecting an awesome match. Delivered big time. Loved the tease of the steps early on, only for them to actually come in to play later on. Then when Skye kicked out at 1!! I was hooked in and totally bought the ensuing small package. Great submission struggle still had me thinking a rollup reversal was possible. Loved this. 

A welcome back to Universal, back to the full 2 hour episodes, even if the crowd seemed weirdly dead at times or to just be frozen in place.

Mark vs Shane Taylor was a super solid opener, good way to start the show. Fun BCC tag and a weekly Joe beating plus Mack vs Mack. Robyn Renegade vs Vertvixen was nice while it lasted but too short at just 3 minutes. Vert would be an awesome pickup as a regular in the future. AR Fox vs Anthony Henry was a standout as well with some real good near falls. Loved all of the post match with surprise FTR and Kingston appearances. 

Edited by DreamBroken
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Matt D

Matt D

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  • Taylor vs Briscoe was good. A big bomb throwing event with plenty of trash talking and cut offs (and things taking two tries) from two guys who are completely and utterly confident in who they are and what they do. It's a shame they're positioning Taylor to lose at all right now, but he's someone who can take losses. Plus, it took the escalation to the Jay Driller for Mark to get the win.
  • Unsurprisingly, Williams and Yuta worked really well. Claudio's a great character in here, berating Yuta, just coming in at will because he's the champ and what are people going to do about it? Finishing stretch had a real classic AJPW feel to it where you had to eliminate Claudio before you could somehow beat Yuta, and then Claudio managed it with the up and over to gain a numbers advantage and set off the beginning of the end.
  • The early layout of Joe vs Christian was so good, with Christian absolutely dogged at getting back to the leg no matter how much Joe pushed him off or swatted him away. Until he made one mistake too many and Joe squashed him. I could have honestly gone for another couple of minutes here with him going back to the leg one more time for hope. As it was, they did do a clever bit with Christian dodging the catch out of the corner. Good little match.
  • Infantry are a throwback tagteam, but they're a throwback to 1991 Global or 1993 WCW Syndi shows. They serve a purpose and they serve it well, but there's a roof. Got to love the hug of honor. I'm not sure everything was smooth here and the stuff that was rough wasn't rough in the good way. But you can get pretty far off of character and presence and standing out.
  • Vertvixen doing a basement flatliner one match after Vincent did it was unfortunate. Announcers protected Robyn well mentioning Vertvixen's superior experience. People were getting on the ref for the finish, but I thought it worked. We caught VV tapping but the ref wasn't around to see it yet, and then the foot tap wasn't certain and it just made Robyn look all the more vicious in victory frankly.
  • Beautiful bit from Nana as he said they were gooses and put the mask up. I like how they're setting up the matches for next week with these promo bits.
  • Speaking of Nana, Nigel with the line about his copyright "Can't have Prince Nana hawking my knock-off shirts on Canal Street." Anyway, Mack vs Mack was something I wanted without even having much of a sense of Ninja Mack. Ultimately, I thought Willie looked almost too good in the opening stuff. He seemed more agile than Ninja at times and that sort of neutered whatever would have made Ninja special. He ended up looking more like Shinobi/Avatar or Chris Champion or something, at least relatively. I imagine that's a small part of the charm but not the brunt of it. He capitalized on Willie's mistakes as the match went on but there weren't exactly a ton of them. So while this was probably what it should have been it was less than what it could have been and at the end of the day, it's up to the viewer to decide how they feel about that.

I'll hit the second half of the show at some point upcoming. Good first half overall though!

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HarryArchieGus

HarryArchieGus

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Fun show. I'm not the guy to be handing them out, but I think there were a few very solid Worldwide points on this show. Briscoe v Taylor was a terrific opener. Taylor's finisher feels a bit much to be hitting for a 2. Felt like overkill, which was kind of a running theme in this episode. Mark Briscoe can do no wrong in 2023, but almost did on that finish. Slipped passed near death on that Jay Driller. Claudio/Wheeler v ‘Hot Wheels’ was, to no surprise, a terrific tv tag. Titus is underrated, and such a good hand. 'Hot Sauce' has been a huge bright spot on these early episodes. Can he talk? If no, they oughta get him a manager and work him up the card. Yuta/Claudio with the win here are, I assume, the likely contenders for the tag title match earned on Wednesday. But... seeing a Hero match displayed on the front page of the ROH app has me curious what a Kings of Wrestling reunion might look like? Samoa Joe v Blake Christian looked great, but I was making dinner during and will need to take it for a second spin this weekend. Blake Christian has been another early bright spot. The Righteous v The Infantry felt a bit off. Smelt a bit funky. I dig the Righteous act, but their team game could use some polish. I thought Vincent looked kinda impressive in Impact, but he's been a bit of a lame duck on ROHTV. Dutch’s fucking gross tongue thing is memorable, but is it necessary to constantly be doing it? I'm rooting for the Righteous, but they need to pick it up. They've had some poor outings thus far. Robyn Renegade v Vertvixen was a solid developmental match. Vixen looked pretty good. Nice to see some new referees. This ref however didn't seem to be paying attention on the finish. Willie Mack vs Ninja Mack was pretty on point. Some nice offense, bumping, selling and a solid banging Power Bomb finish. Well done. I'm looking forward to seeing the Macks work as a tandem - as listed in the coming weeks. Cage/Kaun/Toa v Adam Priest/Lucky Ali,/Victor Benjamin. Who is this Adam Priest!? He looked fucking great. Benjamin looked alright here too. I'm okay with occasional squashes, but I think I've all seen enough Gates of Agony trying to look impressive. I dig Kaun, but he'd be far better off in a tandem with a more experienced partner. Toa needs to go and get some reps in. Kinda unbelievable how few bookings some of these greenhorns, clearly in need, are taking on the weekends. Does Toa just always want to be a deer in the headlights? Their backstage segment with Dalton Castle really could've used a second take. What a stinky piece of Wrestlecrap that was. Kyle Fletcher v Tony Deppen was Fuckin' Awesome! Tony Deppen is really good, and Fletcher's star is rising every time out. That was as good as anything on the show. AR Fox v Anthony Henry was good. Henry hit a lot of huge moves to little effect which ended up feeling pretty unnecessary. Fox is wonderful. There's some guys on this show who badly need some cosmetic changes - the Workhorsemen's teal and gold gear are right up there on that list. I guess it works okay for Henry, but Drake looks ridiculous. Weird FTR save. Not really into 'big' AEW stars like FTR and OC making saves with no build to anything further - at least not for over a month's worth of TV (or did I miss something?). Also, silly (dare I say 'a bit irritating') to have Kingston make the save, and then cut out before he grabs the mic. This show feels afraid of promos mixing things up. Dark Order v Sterling and Associates had some nice moments. Slim J is fucking awesome. Josh Woods seems ready to be elevated, but i back the further developmental play. Athena v Skye Blue was pretty solid. Skye continues to improve. Athena continues to be a star. This did feature some really weak looking moves - like a couple of brutally bad hurricunranas. That said, fun bout, hard fought. By shows end I was a bit exhausted with the match-match-match shit yet again. Still holding out hope that they get back to the nice mix of promos between bouts featured in those first few shows. Regardless, i had fun. Happy they're back at Universal, but uh...

15 hours ago, DreamBroken said:

A welcome back to Universal, back to the full 2 hour episodes, even if the crowd seemed weirdly dead at times or to just be frozen in place.

I suspect it isn't cost effective, but it sure would be great if they could do similar size venues in some of the better traditional ROH towns. Or wherever the great crowds can be found.

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Technico Support

Technico Support

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Oh shit, Riccaboni with a sweet, low key Razor Ramon reference!  “Claudio just told Bobby Cruise, ‘something happen to this belt, something gonna happen to you!’”  Love it.

Also, Tracy Williams needs different gear…I think “bald head, beard, black tights, black boots” needs to be retired.

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