Reed Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 The FBI were keeping minor tabs on Oswald, but they were not closely studying the guy or anything like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jaedmc Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 This was started in the movie thread but I figured it had transcended film and deserved its own topic. Now let's talk about THE UMBRELLA MAN!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 What about Woody Harrelson's dad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I think we all remember where we were when she first showed up on MTV. We are talking about that right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.T. Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I remember where I was when Karen Duffy first showed up on MTV. Holy crap! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fat Spanish Waiter Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 CGB Spender must not be ruled out: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 It freaks me out that I was about to going into my senior year during the 25th anniversary of Kennedy's actual assasination, and now it's almost the 25th anniversary of Stone's JFK. And MTV Kennedy is my age somehow. Which means she was on MTV at the same time and age that I was sitting in AP History reading about the Mugwumps. That's the real American tragedy here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Is kennedy on the mount rushmore of " 90s nerd girls with glasses" along with ... Lisa Loeb ... And uh, two other people? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVA Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Oh, man. I was visiting my grandmother recently, so, of course, Fox News was on, and I was shocked to see Kennedy working as a correspondent of some sort. It just blew my mind. The signifiers of my youth culture are now working for the old white guy establishment. I'm old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
misanthrope304 Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 the "back and to the left" was where the shot came from, the shot of jfk's forehead exploding was an exit wound it came from behind. entrance gunshot wounds < exit gunshot wounds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piranesi Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Oh, man. I was visiting my grandmother recently, so, of course, Fox News was on, and I was shocked to see Kennedy working as a correspondent of some sort. It just blew my mind. The signifiers of my youth culture are now working for the old white guy establishment. I'm old. She jumped on the Right-Wing celebrity welfare train awhile ago. We've lost so many that way. Randee of the Redwoods is running a gay conversion camp. And I can't even watch COACH...not even for Shelley Fabares...and she's innocent in all this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Antacular Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 I recently found my Fresh Fruit for Rotting Vegetables framed album cover from college. Jello > Ted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Taking out who-shot-who-from-where and all that stuff, here's my issue with the conspiracy issue: Everyone would have had to have been in on it. The Dallas Police (to fuck with the evidence and frame Oswald), the FBI, the coroners, LBJ, the secret service (to mess with the route and leave him virtually a sitting duck), the Warren commission, the CIA. Heck, JFK was the one who told the Secret Service to keep a distance. Maybe he was in on it too! But despite this somehow being the least secret conspiracy ever, in fifty years no credible person as ever admitted to anything. And I mean credible people, not "Hey, on his deathbed my dad said he was part of the plan to murder Kennedy, now give me a book deal." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LooseCannon Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Here's what really happened: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Never mind conspiracies, not enough attention is paid to Abraham Zapruder's film making career. Oh, sure. "The JFK Assassination" gets all the credit, but what about his classic "Son's 26th Birthday Party" or "The Cat Knocking Something Over"??? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 the "back and to the left" was where the shot came from, the shot of jfk's forehead exploding was an exit wound it came from behind. entrance gunshot wounds < exit gunshot wounds.Every doctor in Dallas said the big wound was in the back of the head and identified the front as the direction from which the fatal shot came.And here's where we arrive at a problem - the autopsy photos show an intact back of the head - something no doctor in Dallas saw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 25, 2013 Share Posted November 25, 2013 Come on, if this was any other murder case, it would be open and shut. - Even if he did it, and had he lived, I can't see Oswald getting convicted - with a truly impartial jury, that is. Every major piece of evidence had easy "reasonable doubt" attached to it. Start with the fact that the entire autopsy was illegal, thanks to the Secret Service stealing JFK's body. The gun? The cops said it was a Mauser. The bullets at the scene? They were found lined up neatly. The palm print? It was found by the FBI - but only after they visited a funeral home in the middle of the night. And so on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qi14A20MJbE A very good documentary that presents the anti-conspiracy argument very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reed Posted November 25, 2013 Author Share Posted November 25, 2013 Come on, if this was any other murder case, it would be open and shut. - Even if he did it, and had he lived, I can't see Oswald getting convicted - with a truly impartial jury, that is. Every major piece of evidence had easy "reasonable doubt" attached to it. Start with the fact that the entire autopsy was illegal, thanks to the Secret Service stealing JFK's body. The gun? The cops said it was a Mauser. The bullets at the scene? They were found lined up neatly. The palm print? It was found by the FBI - but only after they visited a funeral home in the middle of the night. And so on. Vincent Bugliosi explains the 53 pieces of evidence against Oswald. In what world can you have 53 pieces of evidence against you in a murder and walk off scot free? Maybe if he had the Casey Anthony jury... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Sorrow Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Never mind conspiracies, not enough attention is paid to Abraham Zapruder's film making career. Oh, sure. "The JFK Assassination" gets all the credit, but what about his classic "Son's 26th Birthday Party" or "The Cat Knocking Something Over"??? Haha, that's awesome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
muhammedboehm Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 Vincent Bugliosi explains the 53 pieces of evidence against Oswald. In what world can you have 53 pieces of evidence against you in a murder and walk off scot free? Maybe if he had the Casey Anthony jury... Did you even watch the video? I did. If those 53 points are the best anybody can do, Oswald walks. Every. Single. Time. I mean, seriously, one of the "53 pieces of evidence" is that Oswald didn't read the paper that morning. I thought it would be fun to go through the 53 points one by one and see what, if any, value they had and how easily refuted or, at the very least, have reasonable doubt cast on them. So here ya go: 1) Lee Oswald broke his usual routine and visited Marina on the night before the assassination, obviously to get his rifle First half of this statement is true, second half isn't proven or proveable. 2) Oswald told Frazier his package contained curtain rods which were never found or needed This is true but proves nothing. 3) Oswald told Wesley Frazier he was coming to Irving on Thursday night to pick up curtain rods and that he won't be going back on Friday So what? This isn't evidence of anything. 4) "It was quite unusual that Lee did not want to talk about President Kennedy being in Dallas that particular evening" said Marina Oswald. That was quite peculiar. Again, not evidence of anything. 5) Oswald left behind his wedding ring and $170, believed to be virtually all of his money, for Marina, demonstrating that he realized he might never see her again. This looks bad, to be sure. 6) Before Oswald got into Frazier's car that Friday morning, the day of the assassination, he placed a long, bulky package on the rear seat, telling Frazier it contained the curtain rods7) Wesley Frazier said that on the way to work on the morning of the assassination, he noticed that for the very first time, Oswald did not bring his lunch 8) For the first time ever, Oswald walked quickly 50ft ahead of Frazier all the way into the building These three leave out the key point about the "package" Oswald brought - that he carried it with one end in his palm and the other in his armpit, something that would be physically impossible with a disassembled rifle. Of course, Jack Edwin Dougherty testified that he saw Oswald arrive and that he wasn't carrying anything at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 9) Every morning, Oswald would read the previous morning's edition of the Dallas Morning News. On the morning of the assassination, for the first time, he did not do this. This is evidence how?10) Oswald was trying to create the false impression that he knew nothing about the President's visit This doesn't even rate as a separate bullet point, let alone "evidence".11) Howard Brennan, sitting on a short concrete wall directly across the street from the sixth-floor window, looked up and actually saw Oswald in the window holding his rifle First, Brennan couldn't identify Oswald in a lineup.Second, photographs show Brenna looking away from the TSBD.Third, I've been to Dealey Plaza. It isn't even possible to look from the ground across the street, up into the sixth floor window and actually see enough of a face to make any kind of identification at all.12) Kennedy's assassin was at the subject sixth-floor window Even if true, this isn't evidence against Oswald. And there's a lot of evidence that contradicts this statement.13) Oswald slipped up and placed himself on the sixth floor at the time of the assassination, the only employee who placed himself on the sixth floor or was placed there by anyone else He didn't do this and the video doesn't back up this assertion.In fact, there are multiple witnesses that place Oswald on the first floor at 11:50am.14) Oswald heard the shots and the screaming and all the commotion outside. If he were innocent, what is the likelihood that he would have proceeded to go, as he claims, up to the second floor, to get himself a Coke? Entirely possible he didn't hear anything at all if he was up on the second floor. Likely? No. Possible? Yes.15) Though Oswald was probably more politically orented than all 13 other warehousemen at the Book Depository Building put together, he had no interest in seeing or discussing JFK and unbelievably Oswald said he was in the lunchroom Again, this is proof of nothing, even if true.16) At a roll call for warehouse employees, only Lee Harvey Oswald and Charles Givens were not present; Givens was located shortly thereafter True. Of course, he'd already been seen by a cop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 17) Instead of waiting at the bus stop at Houston & Elm for his Beckley bus, Oswald walked past the bus stop in a frenzied flight from the scene of where he had done something terrible. This is an inflammatory statement that's proof of nothing, not evidence. 18) Oswald got off after just a few blocks because of the traffic, again demonstrating he was in flight from the scene of a crime. Or he simply recognized that the bus wasn't moving and he could walk faster and didn't feel like being on a hot bus that wasn't moving. 19) William Whaley, Taxi Drive "I wonder what the hell is the uproar?" Oswald said nothing! Maybe Oswald didn't hear him. Maybe he just didn't feel like talking. Still evidence of nothing. 20) Instead of getting out of the cab in front of his residence, Oswald has the cab driver, William Whaley, drive right past it. Weird but not exactly proof of anything. 21) Oswald entered his rooming house "walking unusually fast...he was all but running", around 1pm. Weird but not exactly proof of anything. 22) When police later asked him why he picked up his revolver, he lamely answered, "You know how boys do when they have a gun, they just carry it" And we have this quote from where? The extensive recordings of Oswald's interrogation that don't exist? 23) Oswald changed his trousers. So Oswald changed his clothing in the middle of the day, after the assassination. Looks bad, but not proof of anything 24) Oswald killed Tippit Even if true, which is very definitely in doubt, this proves nothing concerning whether Oswald shot JFK or not. 25) The shoe store manager saw a man enter the recessed area of the store off the sidewalk and stand with his back to the street. After the sirens grew fainter, the man looked over his shoulder, turned around, and walked up the street toward the Texas Theater. This doesn't have much, if any, value. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tabe Posted November 26, 2013 Share Posted November 26, 2013 26) The cashier at the theater said that Oswald had "ducked" into the theater without buying a ticket So what? 27) When the lead officer told Oswald to stand up, Oswald rose and said "Well, it is all over now". What else could he possibly have meant by these words other than he knew the police had been in pursuit of him and were there to arrest him? Yep, this looks bad. 28) If Oswald hadn't just murdered Kennedy and Tippit, not only wouldn't he have been likely to have a loaded revolver on him, there wouldn't have been any reason for him to draw that revolver on the arresting officer and strike him Perhaps he was worried about whoever it was that came by his house before he got home and honked their horn for him? 29) After Oswald's arrest at the Texas Theater, he refused to give even his name to the Dallas police officers who captured him And yet somehow we have multiple quotes from Oswald about stuff he supposedly said. This means nothing. Not talking to the police isn't evidence of anything! 30) It's clear Oswald is making some type of statement by his clenched-fist salute So? 31) Oswald refused to take a lie detector test So? 32) When Marina visited Lee in jail, she knew he was guilty. Marina could see it in his eyes and Lee wasn't his usual demanding self, even saying he was being treated alright. How the heck is this evidence of anything? 33) We know that Oswald not only owned but possessed the subject rifle The rifle the police identified as a Mauser? 34) Firearms identification experts from the Warren Commission and HSCA concluded that two large bullet fragments found in the presidential limousine were parts of a bullet fired from Oswald's Carcano rifle to the exclusion of all other weapons That evidence has been refuted: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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