NoFistsJustFlips

I dont have an issue with Hayter changing up her look and going with something she feels is more authentic to her. I just hope she understands picking something weird that doesn't resonate with the audience its hard to overcome. Like you rarely capture lightning in a bottle twice. She was over af and the crowd loved what she had been doing. Changing it was a risk. And one that seemingly isnt paying off.

My prediction for next week, The Hurt Syndicate say wait a second we said you needed a thumbs up from everyone in the group and you didn't get a thumbs up from everyone yet. Cedric Alexander's music hits, walks out onto the stage and does a thumbs down. Then they beat the absolute dog shit out of MJF. Which is leading is to... not totally sure. Hammerstone & Holiday showing up to redo their MLW group with MJF? Adam Cole accepting him back? MJF buying the services of two random monsters? Not sure where the end destination is. But I'd be surprised if we didn't get something similar to what I predicted for the next step at least.

This take is looney tunes. Mercedes is nowhere near a Hogan level politician. She also isnt her own booker. It's TK putting her over everyone. Gotta stop blaming the performers when they're booked strong like it's their own personal preference. If TK wanted her to llse she'd be losing (or off TV forever like Miro). Secondly, Hayter ruined her aura. Original run Hayter that was with Britt was supper over and having bangers and earned that Women's Title run. Now tho whoever this Scooby Doo lady is, it isnt it. She's still putting on excellent matches but her presentation is garbage. Its also a big clue of how TK views her that her big return after a year away on a huge show in her home country happened on the pre show. Hayter vs Toni would be a really good match. AEW has really good matches all the time. What they don't have often are big marquee matches that people haven't seen yet. Toni & Hayter has happened. Mercedes has never worked Toni in AEW or worked with the Timeless character at all. I think Mercedes vs Toni is the way to go.

The whole Hogan win at WM9 and loses back to Yoko at KOTR93 was done specifically as a way to heat up the European house shows that weren't selling well. You could run Yoko vs Bret second to last and Hogan beating Giant Gonzales on top if you want. But that doesn't help move the ticket sales without a heated up personal issue driving business.

Right. Doing the DQ win that they did is fine. He was saying Hogan should have been putting Yoko over. Or at least thats how I read the "put a guy over once... then beat him for months" thing. And that just doesn't work for a 90s house show. Especially an international one. Hogan losing a pinfall to Yoko does no good for anyone on an untelevised show. Just hurts the house next time around because fans left unhappy.

Speaking of Hogan, wonder how much he's getting paid to be the face of RAF. It's gonna die a spectacular death and Im sure that Izzy guy is gonna lose his ass. Amateur wrestling sells out stadiums for big college shows. But without the college tie in and friends and family of school age kids, no one is gonna pay to go watch that stuff. It's gonna be like the WBF. They're gonna pizzaz it up with spectacle and turn off the people that enjoy it. And the people they're trying to draw are already satisfied with MMA & Boxing. I bet they get a mid level deal with ESPN+ or somewhere similar for streaming rights. But that's not gonna be enough.

Why would you end your European shows in that era with a heel beating a mega face and sending everyone home angry? Even if Hogan has no stroke they're not booking Yoko pinning Hogan clean in every town in Europe for the only shows they got for the whole year. Just doesn't make any business sense. Like Hogan is an absolute garbage person. And handled business in a very slime way but surely even so you know Hogan wasn't the booker. He wasn't showing up to towns and forcing Vince to change the finishes. Dude does enough real like shit bag stuff, no need to attribute things he wasn't controlling to him.

I hope not. I dont see how these mini residencies are any different than TNA taping at the Impact Zone or NXT in front of the same audience. Not quite as bad because its just 3 or 4 weeks at a time vs all year.

They need to be careful with these residency deals. Drawing a crowd in the same city 6 or 7 times in a row can be dicey. Worked out okay in Arlington. Chicago especially is a city they have ran to death. Don't entirely understand the thought process unless its just a financial thing.

If Lev wasn't casted yet then he can't be there to tell Abby no when she's about to slice Dina's throat. So at the very least they aren't getting that far.

That's right I forget they still have to reconnect with Tommy and have him snipe Manny. And if they plan on telling the whole flashback with all the astronaut stuff its going to need a full episode for sure. Your ending point makes sense then. The shock of killing a pregnant woman. Ep 1 of S3 can start with Abby finding out and marching into the theater and end with Abby having Dina at knife point and Lev staying stop. Then ep 2 jumps into the Abby flashback and leads us back to that same point as the s3 ending point where she let's them go.

Seemingly the natural stopping point would be Abby killing Jesse and you leave the showdown with Ellie as your cliff hanger. But there's too much to get through I would think. Only way around it is if next week is only half flashback and half the lead up to the Mel & Owen confrontation. You start the finale with that confrontation and end with the Abby killing Jesse. But that seems pretty rushed when this show has been very good about it's pacing so far.

My take on this is besides the heel turn, this was always what was planned for his last year. Him vs Cody at Mania face vs face. Him warning in a gee shucks way that this was his last year and if no one beats him he's retiring as champ. And how he doesn't want that and the title means so much and him retiring it isn't what's best for wrestling history and all that. Then and now its all leading to Cody beating him in his last match and rescuing the title. It actually works much better now as a heel. And you ask who is it helping, well Cody of course when he gets the rub for retiring Cena and saving the title at the last minute. The problem with why it's gonna be a rough year is... Cena's body is shot. His body is basically a full body Matt Hardy jimmy legs. His movements are stiff and he's lost his athleticism. He can't bump properly. So the heel turn is also giving him some bells and whistles to hide how bad his body is betraying him. They're just lucky that crowds are so hot right now in a boom. The audience is having fun being able to boo and get invested in Cena's character so the matches don't matter that much. That main event was mechanically ugly yesterday but the crowd was so fucking into it. So ultimately it doesn't matter.

Fair point. I did have a second prong on my argument tho, being 6 matches isn't enough. Kevin showed the data that it hasn't been strictly 6 every week. It's been a mix of 4, 5, 6. But my point to that still stands, I would enjoy (and I think they would benefit from) some weeks having more matches. Sprinkling in episodes that have 7,8,9 or whatever. I'm not saying let's run all crash TV 3 minutes as the norm Russo style. I'm just saying I would enjoy a more varied show and think AEW would greatly benefit from sprinkling in a few episodes here and there that have higher match totals / feature more workers getting to wrestle.

Yes. In my opinion, of course. A work of art can still be an artistic expression even when using only one color. But for my enjoyment, I prefer art with many different colors and line weights, etc. I don't begrudge Bloodsport for existing by any means. But it's definitely not what I would consider exciting. And when you limit the tools in the toolbox you also limit widespread appeal. It can still be a cathartic artistic expression for you. But if your goal is to make money and grow beyond a niche idea (and I believe that to be AEW's goal), limiting your tools in the toolbox puts you at a disadvantage.

I'm so down with Zach Gowen working Dynamite. He's one of my favorite dudes in the business. Just such a nice guy and deserves his flowers and a dope showcase on national TV.

I should have done a better job aiming which comments were to which sentiment. That's on me. These are all just opinions. Even my side of it. But what ventures beyond opinions is blindly projecting that someone wants AEW to be more like WWE when they have a different opinion of what's best for AEW. (That wasn't you). As if WWE is the only place that's ever done short matches. Or convincing wins for guys they're heating up. That's pretty universal in the business over the last 40 years. Currently AEW is the promotion I enjoy most. But I am a pro wrestling fan. That doesn't have any ties to one singular promotion. And the people who tie their fandom to one specific company are, in my opinion, what's wrong with the discourse in wrestling right now. In short: I want more variety in my wrestling, and I want less toxic stans for one company acting like being a fan of anything else makes you less than.

Down on his luck DDP in 1995's losing streak turned around when he found The Diamond Cutter and led him to becoming one of the most popular dudes ever. So once at least. Can't think of another tho. The condescending tone from a few posters on this debate is a bummer. Worse are the shit talking WWE takes directed towards me. Where have I said WWE is my only point of reference and I want AEW to be more like WWE? My points of reference are successful periods in all national wrestling companies over the years. I mean Goldberg in WCW is what sparked this topic. The company being All Elite Wrestling and all of them being elite is some head cannon shit. If TNA does a sit down interview is that action? 'Their name is TOTAL NONSTOP ACTION. All they do is action!' To my recollection the everyone being elite take has not been used in marketing or branding for AEW ever. If they're all elite, then none of them are elite. The literal definition of elite is significantly exceptional, far above the norm. If the norm is elite then by definition elite is only average. My main thesis was Dynamite formating is stiff and they should add in some variety. Never in my wildest dreams did I think there would be a bunch takes fighting against that. A show of 6 15 minute matches is boring. A show of all tag matches is boring. A show of all death matches or all spotfests or all sports presentation is boring. Wrestling needs short matches long matches luchadores brawlers hosses tag teams fat dudes ripped dudes monsters wimps. Variety is a nessicary component. And I will dismiss the opinions of anyone who disagrees with that main point. The toxic ass tribalism in wrestling fandom these days is nuts. Having critical opinions of something you like doesn't mean you hate it and want to see it fail. Blind tribalism and fake positivity does not benefit anyone. That's how you end up with a Vince / yes man dynamic.

I cannot disagree more. 50 / 50 booking that tries to not make anyone look too bad ends up not making anyone look good. In that scenario a definitive loss to Hobbs in 5 minutes isn't going to hurt Yuta long term. Losses are a part of the business. You shouldn't have to make sure every single performer gets the same amount of offense in every match. That's how you end up with a roster full of middle of the road unover guys. There's a whole generation of fans that have grown up thinking someone is getting buried just because they took a definitive loss. That's just not true. Theres a lot of scenarios where you gain more with a loss than you do with a win. It's story telling. And even if the loss doesn't help you in the current moment, its easy to rehab people and get them back up the ladder when its their time. Tl,dr: if you protect everyone, then you're promoting no one. 50 / 50 booking is for lazy bookers that don't understand the nuance of the medium.

Good points. It's a weird era we're in where one company doesn't do house shows and the other very rarely does. My counter to the Goldberg thing would be well why did he ever have to go 15 minutes? Brock showed you can have a super top of the card money drawing monster that routinely only works 8-10 minute bomb fests. Like you've been saying, 3 ring circus. Not every character & not every performer should be smushed through the same mold. Should have a few Lesnar & Goldbergs bomb throwing hosses get runs on top. Should have a few Omega & Ospreys epic workrate guys that get runs on top. Should have a few Mox / Austin style brawlers that get runs on top. Just because you make it to the main event and win the world title doesn't mean they should make you wear a suit, do the slow plodding heel 2008 Jericho promos and have to go 20 minutes for every match. Variety is what keeps things fresh.

I promise its a genuine argument. I dont automatically attribute long matches to good matches. Theres tons of great workers in AEW who can tell awesome effective stories in 8 minutes. Some talent are actually better suited to it. I don't need these extended apron bump / outside the ring sequences is 4 matches on the same night just to artificially inflate times. I'm not saying I hate long matches. I still want long good quality work rate matches. I just don't want *every match* to be shoe horned into that mold. You referenced Rhyno vs Nick Wayne. Not gonna win any match of the year polls, but it served a better purpose for both guys than a 15 min match would have. For example, what makes Hobbs look better? A 15 minute 3 star match with Claudio? Or a 5 minute murking of Yuta where Hobbs gets to look dominant an explosive with power moves and flexing and not having to sell much of anything Goldberg style? I know my answer.

I saw an article about Willow today. It's mid May and Willow (a great worker & a great character that I think almost everyone agrees is a bright spot in AEW), has had only 4 matches in AEW this year. Is this what people want? This circles back to my criticism about low match counts on Dynamite. The people that enjoy the longer matches, are you okay with only seeing people you like wrestle like 10-15 times a year because of it?

Yeah maybe this era of wrestling just isn't for me. Because the random pairings and unknown match lengths are what I really enjoy. Like if a Dynamite was 6 straight tag matches that did a single heat and all had the same match structure that would be tedious af. (They haven't done that just demonstrating a point). To me that's what having all these long matches feel like. Monotonous. It's just the same thing over and over. Sure the quality of work is generally very good to great. But it's just too samey for me. Ideally, when two guys come out to have a match I want to have no idea how much time they have. Is this going to be a 6 minute hoss fight where dudes just throw bombs? Is this gonna be a heavy limb work match where someone's going to have to over come damage? Is this gonna be an 8 minute sprint with wild spots? I don't want to have the blueprint before the bell rings. And more than anything that's what Dynamite feels like it's been for awhile now. Most matches are the same formula. The same time. The moves change. But the content blurs together (for me).

Just to support my argument a bit here a video came up in my You Tube feed where Wrestle Me reviewed the Raw where HHH tore his quad. And my god the pacing and format was such a breath of fresh air. Shit happened. A lot of shit. So much shit. On the same show. It wasn't just a slow content churn like 2020s wrestling is. An Austin promo to start the show. A major Shane and Angle program starts with a medal ceremony angle. Undertaker messing with Austin is threaded through the show. Terri trying to seduce APA to protect her. Spike & Molly romance. And one of the best TV matches of all time is your main event. -Rhyno v Big Show -APA vs Saturn & Malenko -Matt Hardy vs XPac -Dudleys vs Holly's -Edge & Christian vs Eddie Guerrero & Jeff Hardy -Kane vs Kurt Angle -Benoit & Jericho vs HHH & Austin It's 7 matches but shit happens. There's varriety. There's story advancement. There's unpredictability. There's a fucking banger of a match in the main. That's what I look for in my wrestling TV. Give me some of that in 2020s wrestling. And if you disagree then we just aren't going to have nay common ground here.

I'll just have to withdraw my argument then because we're coming from two different places. I'm sorry longer doesn't mean better. That Fit Finley vs Eddie Guerrero match sounds fucking dope to me and it probably only had 8 minutes. Long matches for the sake of long matches is tedious (to me). I dont care if you run a 4 match Dynamite or a 6 match Dynamite if it's one week of a random rotation of variety and some weeks get 10 or 12 matches. If you want to run 4-6 matches a week cut your roster. It does no good as far as building sustained pushes and getting people hot if you see the average mid carder once in a four week span. I'm legitimately baffled there's people who enjoy a 4 match show and only seeing like 10 people out of a stacked roster that could support seeing way more talent. Including more women on a given show.