NoFistsJustFlips
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Posts posted by NoFistsJustFlips
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I don't follow Stardom at all so a lot of this conversation is over my head. But I'm just curious why really the only two options that have been mentioned are sending a mid carder to job to Toni or sending a top star to job to Toni. Theoretically couldn't they send a top star and AEW agree to let them go over a non-champ woman? It's all moot because they have a big show that day and no one is available. But I don't see why having their top person come over and beat Britt or Ruby or something wouldn't have been a possibility. For this idea to work AEW can't have their people win every match.
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Let's use this as a jumping off point. Let's say they gave Cody the title at Mania. What's next? What keeps fans engaged? I know that's a hard question to answer with any true accuracy. But Cody gets a conquering hero promo on Raw hat gets interrupted. And we still probably end up getting the exact same story we got that night. Brock turns on him and we get Brock vs Cody as an extended feud with the title involved. Then what happens with The Bloodline? They probably still run their same story, but without the backdrop of The Bloodline being a device to keep the title on Roman. So it lacks a lot of that urgency it has now.
I just think (note this is a thought not trying to pass it off as a fact lol), that Cody wasn't going to be any better off for winning. The win is a nice feel good moment in the short term. But in the long term that would have taken some steam out of the most over story, and added really nothing to Cody's over-ness. It's all a guessing game. Cody is arguably the number one babyface in the company. Would a win transfer how over & how much of a draw Reigns is to Cody? I don't think so. Roman is still the guy, just with a little less steam.
Again that's business talk and not really storytelling as an art talk. If it was Cody's story, then a win there is the best artistic conclusion. But I'm of the opinion this is one long Roman story. So his story being ended by a new challenger that just happened to win The Royal Rumble and didn't actually have much of a personal issue or story with him, that is not the best artistic conclusion. But that is certainly up for debate.-
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If my post came off as one of those 'well Hogan is clearly the best worker ever because he made the most money' then I didn't relay my thought well. That's not how I was hoping to come off. And you're right Shartnado's post wasn't really a huge knock on Roman. So I may have went on a tangent that didn't really warrant that quote lol.
Opinions on artistic value and storytelling quality are valid things. I guess there's a lot of post that just read in my head more as questioning business decisions via the storytelling choices. Like LOTS of people slammed the Wrestlemania finish and how Roman holding the titles so long is a huge mistake and ruining the company. And when I read those ruining the company things it doesn't read as 'ruining my enjoyment of the art / story' it reads to me as coming from an opinion of business is tanking because of these choices are not the choices I wanted.
Could just be a me reading into things wrong thing. But there are a lot of posts I read that come off like that to me.-
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I get that women's tag teams are bare. That's a very true point. I'm just a fan of parity. If you make the women's tags one set that travels to all three brands, I'd like the men's tags to be the same. One set that travels to all three brands. Just make that how all the tag titles work in WWE. Single's titles get separate but equal titles on all three brands, tag titles get one set that travel between all the brands.
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4 hours ago, Octopus said:
@NoFistsJustFlips, I don’t agree with the necessity to feel that someone can not enjoy a booking decision when the business is doing well. Apologies if I’m misreading you.
I personal don’t mind Roman as super champion. I wish things were a tad different at different points, but he is good at what they want to do. With WWE in general, I can dip in and out.I'm not saying you have to like a booking decision just because it's doing good business. I mean to say everyone conflates their opinion with the right thing / the wrong thing to do business-wise. You can like or not like whatever stories are put in front of you. I just don't like to see when people say they are fucking up or this is the wrong thing to do. Say it's something you don't enjoy or don't like, but you can't say they are doing the wrong thing. Roman not defending the title a lot isn't them messing up. It's working. It's making Roman more of a draw. That's all. I'm just talking about the way it's relayed. Opinions are opinions, not facts.
The current fact are houses are up and ratings are up. Viewership is up. Profits are up. It's not really correct to say any decision they are making is wrong.-
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Oh. So they are unifying the NXT Women's Tags & WWE Women's Tags? I guess it might not end up as clean as I was hoping.
If the women's tags are a single set that can appear on every brand I hope they merge the men's WWE tag titles with the men's NXT tag titles so they are also a single set that can appear on every brand. Consistency and equality. Let every brand have a men's world, a women's world, and a men's mid card title. Then the men & women's tags are allowed on all 3 brands? Not totally ideal but at least better than it has been. That would cut it down to 11 total titles. Way better than the days we were up to like 21 in WWE at one time. -
I don't mean to pick on Shartnado here, but it's a good jumping off point. This talking point needs to go away.
Smackdown pulled 2.4 million total and a crazy 2.7 million I believe for Roman's segment last week. All the complaining about Roman is unwarranted. It's working. He has a big deal aura. He's surpassed Brock. He's at least on par with Cena as far as presentation and moving the needle. Ratings are up. Attendance is up. And it's because the top guy is being booked so strongly for once (and has very captivating stories happening for him and everyone in his orbit).
I get not enjoying the sameness of one person holding a title. But this is how you really make stars (when you don't have once in a generation performers like Rock & Austin). Roman holding the title this long is great for business. Creating a new title for the other brand isn't ideal but it's TV negotiating time and USA has bitched about not having a champion for a year now. I understand people wanting the shows to align more with what they personally like, but I just wish there was also a stated understanding of what they are doing is right for business, even if it's not your cup of tea.-
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That's you re-contextualizing the promo to fit your point of view.
The music & the lights comment was a word for word rip off of what Cole said in a promo with Karrion Cross in NXT. They give you the cool music & the lights to make you look like a big deal. All they do for me to make me look like a big deal is ring the freakin bell. It pretty much murdered Cross dead because it was true. It was all smoke & mirrors for him then his ring work was bland as can be. That comment was just a clever callback not some 4D chess shot at TK for bringing Cole in and how he can't draw an audience.
You're getting out of hand with all of this. Like & dislike whoever you want. Just please I ask that when conversing back and forth with us, keep your opinions rooted in reality. That's all. Because that's some looney tunes shit up there lol.-
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23 hours ago, tbarrie said:
Shane Douglas wouldn't. Matt is on the right track.
The guy who has a decade plus of exposure being the gravely voice heel yelling I'm gonna franchise your ass doesn't have too much of a character? The guy who wore leather Kengal hats isn't a character? The guy who screamed Dick Flair for years and years and years is a muted calming suit to push narratives forward without the air or threat of possible violence or interjecting himself into any stories?
Uh sorry, no. I'mma have to HARD disagree on that one.
I'm not saying he couldn't play the traditional WWE style GMs that get involved in stories. I'm saying specifically for the Jack Tunney role of a nobody that acts as a story device to move plot without he himself being part of the story he is 1,000% not qualified for that role. -
It's happening. Papa H is finally making it all make sense. The OCD tingle I feel is starting to fade. World & WWE Undisputed men's & women's titles (assuming that's what Rhea's title gets rebranded as). IC & US are already separated and properly branded. Now let's just get the men's & women's tags in the same boat. Each brand with 5 separate but equal championships. Bonus points for NXT already having the 5 matching counterparts.
I will even overlook the small weirdness of undisputed titles actually being disputed by the nature of have two equal titles (3 if you count NXT).-
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Yeah I can see a ripple effect where it makes JCP way healthier. The houses went down. They made panic moves. Some of that is alleviated if they run with Magnum and it works. He wasn't quite a Hogan level draw but he definitely surpasses Dusty as a draw I think. The chase run with Flair leading to Starrcade could have done record business. The hated over the top sexualized gaudy guy vs the man of the people heartthrob the women are dying to get with guy. It would have been an incredibly successful piece of business.
Ultimately it all comes down to if they burn their money buying UWF still. We saw how that played out without Magnum. Even with Magnum that would be doomed to fail. Are they confident enough with him as the guy that they don't need to make that move? Or does the hubris hit even harder and they think they're bullet proof with magnum and still crash and burn with that? It's kind of a two part question. Had Magnum been able to be crowned business is better, but if that UWF thing still happens it still all falls apart. -
5 hours ago, Technico Support said:
Great show with the exception of "great talker" MJF not being able to get a reaction without shit-talking the crowd. Dude literally entered the ring, insulted the fans and city, started cutting his promo, stopped to insult them some more, rinse, repeat. The guy has so little confidence in his character and ability that he has to keep going back to the cheap heat every time the crowd dies down a little. Contrast that with the fans booing Callis out of the building without him having to pull bush league insult comic shit.
Just my take on things but one of the best promo guys of all time (Ric Flair) would stop dead in his tracks to yell shut up fat boy at random fans mid promo. Or pick someone out of the crowd and talk about making their woman ride Space Mountain. I don't see a lot of difference between the format of Flair & MJF. MJF feels like a modern throwback / tribute to Flair in my opinion with his promos. Instead of Space Mountain and sexual stuff it's Generational Talent and Bidding War of 2024 as his go to content.
It will be interesting to see how his career develops in 10-20 years. If he has that same trajectory of the most hated heel of all time becoming beloved for his antics like what happened to Flair. I have a sense with the benefit of hindsight a lot of what we're seeing now will actually be held in high regard. And it's just recency bias / being a version of something we've already seen before that gets MJF hated upon in the current times. His delivery and ability to let the thoughts just flow so effortless are very under rated. Even if you don't care for the content.
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In my opinion it honestly has a lot more to do with segment placement / what is going with other shows on TV / what the trends are for weeks at a time than who is in one segment for one show. Ratings trends take a few weeks to really develop and I think people spend too much time micro analyzing each quarter hour when Nielsen is so imprecise with their measurements.
All that said, had to give drew a little bit of shit because of his size queen gimmick lol.-
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Any former worker would be too much of a character to be a modern Jack Tunney. You need like David Crockett. Or Jerry Jarrett if he were still alive. Someone who has no need for character and is just a bland suit to spouse exposition. I had considered BJ Whitmere, but even he gives an air of danger if you wold cross him. Has to be someone with really no TV history and minimal notoriety to make it work. Maybe Danny Cage that runs Monster Factory. Or Tony Chimmel or some such.
Even still, it's basically a lateral move because TK comes off as very nonthreatening like you would want out of an exposition character. -
18 hours ago, just drew said:
I'll again be interested to see how many viewers that segment loses, and who certain folks on here will shift the blame onto to avoid being honest with themselves about Adam Cole.
This segment scored the highest viewership and highest demo rating for this episode.
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It's not a blanket rule, it ebbs and flows. You can debut an Ishii or Suzuki and try to portray them as a big deal upon first viewing. But that's because there's no idea of who this is in a new viewer's mind. They haven't been on TV in the US so there's no negative stigma. Darren Young has a significant just another guy stigma from the way WWE used him. You'd need to feature him and build him to remove that negative stigma before he could be effective being portrayed as a big deal.
I realize you're being a little glib because what I said kind of paints your point of view as correct. But there are different goals to be accomplished. Are you trying to draw a rating by something being a big deal? Are you trying to have a good match to make someone look better to your audience? Are you trying to feature someone from a partner promotion to keep your political alliances strong? You can't just fit a one size fits all set of rules to every situation. If Collision was an established thing and AEW's goal was a good match for Punk or to make NJPW happy the Rosser idea works well. But if your goal is to make something feel like a big deal and special for your debut episode to drive viewers it doesn't work.-
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7 minutes ago, Dirty J. said:
Sounds like a sales pitch to me. I’m positive I’ve seen that head crank or some of the suplexes before. I’m not buying it whatever Uno said. WWE Yukes only started using motion captured moves a few years ago, some of these animations pre-date that. I’ve played countless of hours of WWE games since high school and college, I know I’m right.
You got me. My real name is Yukes Yukerson. I am here solely to shill this game. I started my account about 4 years before the game came out just for this moment, truly the best long con in the history of DVDR lol.
Maybe you're right. I haven't played any of the janky ass WWE games since Here Comes The Pain. Just going by what was said by a company representative
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10 hours ago, Dirty J. said:
I hate the fact that most animations are from the old WWE Yukes games. Looks lazy and feels so dated.
In one of his videos Uno said all the animations are hand crafted just like the AKI days, so I think you're mistaken. WWE Yukes games used motion capture. There's no motion capture at all in this one.
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Nothing says must see TV like a squash match against a guy who most recently on national TV in the US was a jobber managed by Bob Backlund. Terrible idea lol. I haven't caught any of his New Japan work and if you guys told me it's been really solid I would believe you. But that is just not a match that's going to drive viewership. You need something interesting and appealing, that's why they are announcing it ahead of time. They want to pop a good number for night one... here's this big must see TV event, please come watch.
Fred Rosser aint it.
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My money is on Punk vs Joe to create a buzz.
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Good. Now merge the two women's titles, make them a new title that looks like that, then introduce a women's world title for the other brand. Then do the same for the tag titles. Then do the same for the women's tag titles. Parity is almost in sight (yes I know they aren't doing any of that but a man can dream). World Titles & Universal Titles with no mention of what brand they "belong to" in the name would make draft stuff so much more logical.
Mostly a lateral move here. Realistically they weren't going to abandon that design, but I guess this at least cleans things up as to the appearance of only one world title per brand. Black strap is the way to go. Not 100% sold on the painted gold backing for the logo. But they did at least change the lettering to say Undisputed Champion now. Would have liked a little bit of actual gold in the backing with some flourishes or embossing of actual metal back there. As is, it's fine, if a bit lazy and mostly just a pallet swap.-
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Already pre ordered the FTRhausen version. This game looks like a blast to me. I dont care that the models arent ultra realistic or whatever. The game play looks fun and familiar and deep. Plus the mini games and the hands in the pockets and the skateboard stuff. Aiming for a FUN game vs an exact simulation is the way to my heart / wallet.
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For fuck's sake how can they end Honky Tonk's historic IC Title reign with NO BUILD? Ugh what an utter disgrace of a booking decision!!11!!!! They should have had Warrior calling him out with Honky Tonk dodging him for weeks with different excuses!
Lol just a little exaggerated but food for thought. Sometimes fans get stuck too deep in the conventional wisdom bubble. Just because things happen a certain way more often than not doesn't mean when something different happens it's bad. Jade's loss was actually one of the best bits of booking they've done. She didn't get destroyed. She didn't get ruined. She doesn't have the stink of failure on her for losing. Ryback was dead when he lost to Punk. Goldberg was mostly dead when he lost to Nash. Jade is still protected and can easily say it was a fluke and still move up the ladder due to the manor she lost. Stat also gets a giant shot in the arm right out of the return gate.
Wrestling needs surprises. This was a perfectly done one. It almost had the buzz of a surprise MITB cash in. It was just a great piece of business and a creative way to past Jade's streak and not turn her into just another person.-
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I totally disagree that AEW would be fine without The Elite. This isn't a Punk vs Elite take either, I highly enjoy all involved.
My thought process is AEW happened because a bunch of things lined up right. But the catalyst was All In. The backbone, the soul, the reality of what AEW would become was born out of that one moment. A moment Tony Khan wasn't involved in. It was Cody & The Bucks primarily. But also Kenny & Hangman. Those 5. So Cody is gone. If you lose Kenny & Hangman & The Bucks, that's it. You don't have that same backbone, that same soul of the movement that created this. What's left is still a very good promotion with very good workers. But what it essentially becomes is TK co-opting the movement without any of the main players left.
Sure if Punk comes back you have him. You have Mox. You have Danielson. You have Jericho. But the fire... the counter culture nature of needing this organic second home for wrestling is gone. WCW lost Lex & Flair & The Stieners at different points. But WCW was never without a king in the castle. SOMEONE out of Flair, Lex, The Stieners and Sting was always there. AEW without any of The Elite is very much the same thing to me. It's just an odd feeling that doesn't fit. And I think a lot of the fans that like AEW as a true alternative go back to a different alternative (likely New Japan).
It's just a weird house of cards that starts to fall when you lose the spark of what made this possible, in my opinion.-
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AEW - JUNE 2023
in ALL ELITE WRESTLING
Posted
You & I align on a lot of things but this is one I'm gonna have to differ with you on. TK is the boss. Punk could say he doesn't want to be champion all he wants, but if TK is set on it that is happening. Yes Danielson has said he doesn't wan to be champion. But Danielson also isn't a mega star that had sat out for almost a decade and was drawing big PPV numbers and selling lots of tickets. I love Danielson in all aspects of wrestling so this isn't a knock on him at all. It's just Punk has a higher price tag, was driving tons of revenue, and TK wanted him as the company center piece to get an ever better return on that investment.
Bryan signed a 3 year deal. By all reports he's loving AEW. But there's no guarantee he won't end up back in WWE. Before All Out Punk was a lifer who was going to be the center piece of the company forever going forward. So it's not really a fair situation to say well because Bryan didn't want the belt (and didn't get it) that Punk just didn't push hard enough. The truth is TK just doesn;t want Bryan to be champion right now. He did want Punk as champion. Their desires and lobbying efforts don't really factor into this at all. The booker man is gonna do what the booker man wants to do.