Jump to content
DVDVR Message Board

NoFistsJustFlips

Members
  • Posts

    545
  • Joined

  • Last visited

Posts posted by NoFistsJustFlips

  1. I didn't see the segment but isn't it possible that the wrestlers aren't the ones getting worked into a shoot here? I mean they're working each other at the next ppv. My first instinct when you hear about fights or arguments is work, especially if they are working each other soon. Couldn't this just be some good old fashion working the boys shit to give them some juice for the match at Survivor Series?

    Our justice system in the US is innocent until proven guilty. So I've always leaned on it's a work until proven that it's not.

  2. 4 hours ago, olythegreat89 said:

    Great question! If Curt doesn't hurt his back he probably becomes WWF Champion in the early-mid 90s. He probably feuds with Bret, Bulldog and Piper throughout 91 into 92 over the IC title. He still teams up with Flair when he joins in 91. And maybe instead of Flair beating Savage in the fall of 92 for the title before quickly dropping it to Bret, maybe Savage drops the title to Perfect. Then the roles are reversed going into 93 with Perfect being the heel champ with Heenan by his side and Flair being the babyface but Perfect still beats Flair in the loser leaves town match on Raw in early 93.

    A healthy Perfect being champ in the mid 90s would've been great.

    I'm a huge fan of Hennig and the Mr Perfect character. But the chances he becomes WWF Champion are slim and none. WWF is a babyface territory. They rarely do the heel champ with the face chase in that era. With the steroid trial they moved to lets juiced up body types, sure. But timeline-wise it's either Hennig or Yokozuna. And I just don't see Hennig getting the nod. Yoko had the freak show attraction feel, and the only kind of size they were allowed to have at the time. I would have loved Mr Perfect vs Bret Hart title matches. But pure wrestling on top was not what Vince's instincts liked to book.

    I think he gets a quick program with Bret. He probably gets the Rumble 93 match over Razor if he's still a heel. But he was destined to turn face and feud with Flair regardless of being in a manager role or a partner role. He's one of my favorites ever, but he just didn't have what Vince wanted out of a top star in the era. I mean even during the character's peak, he didn't even get a real tv match with Hogan. Smashed the title and his manager gets the match against Hogan? Shows a lack of faith in him on top.

    • Like 3
  3. Why yes of coarse Toney got kicked out for throwing a punch. Makes total sense, he was the only weapon still on the field. This was a rough one. I sense Joe Judge is the kind of coach that's going top sit Toney for a game or two as punishment for getting ejected too.

    Browns had a really smart play at the end there to give them a chance. Game clock would have ran down to a game winning filed goal so they dragged Eckler in for a TD when he was trying to avoid scoring. All a moot point because they didn't get the job done. But I appreciate the high level thinking in getting themselves a chance.

  4. Giants game is cursed today. Barkley sprains his ankle, or breaks it, or tears ankle ligaments or whatever by just stepping on someone else's foot when a play was over. Daniel Jones looked like he was so concussed he burst an ear drum and his equilibrium left town. Stumbling and bumbling to the point they carted him off. Just terrible injury luck today. I'm thankful I had already given up on them being able to stay in contention.

    So Mike Glennon still gets a paycheck in the NFL, who knew?

  5. I do find value in watching the show, but your mileage will vary on how much reality BS you can sit through. For instance I thought it was super interesting to hear Cody throw out a buy rate prediction for DON. And his guess being a fairly low guess was a little surprising while QT went higher (and ended up being pretty close to dead on). But yeah not a fan of the creative editing that's a staple of reality TV. They mentioned it being the first show back with a crowd and show a legitimate shot of someone walking through the entrance that night then cut to a crowd shot clearly in a much fuller indoor arena... not Daily's Place.

    • Like 2
  6. 1 hour ago, tbarrie said:

    I've encountered this theory before, but I don't know. I suspect if you went through 'Mania history, you wouldn't find many examples where the opening match was clearly the second biggest. If you want to actually do it, I'd be interested to read it though.

    Yeah I didn't explain myself well on this one. I'm speaking from my experience wrestling / running events. That's how I view it. If I'm not in the main let me open that sucker up. The crowd is always hot for an opener. It's the same philosophy I use when laying out a card. I do think it's a factor in how WWE books it's cards as well, but I didn't mean to say it's a trend that's an absolute that we can actually track. But I mean Wrestlemania 10 & 30 definitely use that formula. Bret vs Owen & Bryan vs Triple H were hot openers that rivaled the main events in importance. Tito vs The executioner at Wrestlemania 1 not so much lol.

    • Like 1
  7. 12 hours ago, tbarrie said:

    Didn't Seth and Brock curtain-jerk 'Mania the same year Bryan and Kofi rivalled Becky-Rhonda as the match with the most buzz? I'll give you Big E being secondary to Roman, but I don't see the argument for Kofi being a secondary champion.

    You use curtain jerk as if it's a negative here. The two most important matches on a show are the opener and the closer. The women main evented. The second best slot was the opener. Bryan vs Kofi went on later in the show but that doesn't make it more important. Smackdown was still on USA and still the B show at the time. (Kofi losing the title in a squash was the first Fox Smackdown). So no, Kofi vs Bryan was not the top men's title match at Mania. The champion of the A show was Lesnar. His match with Seth was promoted as a bigger deal. Bryan vs Kofi was clearly what the fans cared more about. But it was not positioned as the top title.

    This is all subjective tho so if you disagree I understand. But it's pretty clear to me at least Lesnar as Universal champ was "the man" at the time.

  8. 1 hour ago, TheVileOne said:

    He really needs to stop doing this shit. It's not a surprise or huge announcement if you say it's coming ahead of time.

    I get the frustration. It's universally agreed that most of these announcements are not what we as wrestling fans actually consider major or big. But you have to start viewing these as promotion for a TV show. There's a segment booked where we are going to learn something new. No it's probably not going to be a major announcement. But it's how you have to promote the segment. You make a graphic and push a segment with enthusiasm to generate interest. There's not really a way to say it that satisfies TNT if it's properly down played. Tony Kahn will talk? Tony Kahn announces some new information? Like TNT want things to be hyped and promoted and treated as big to generate interest and viewership from their non wrestling minded, TV oriented perspective.

    Just giving a different perspective. You're not wrong tho.

    • Like 1
  9. 3 hours ago, Eoae said:

    So was this year's draft the last chance for the NXT veterans?  I feel like if Grimes, O'Reilly, KUSHIDA, etc. had any chance of getting a call-up, it was going to be this week.  Instead, only a couple wrestlers got promoted and the rest of them probably have months of jobs for rookie to look forward to, followed by being released or their contract expiring.  

    On the one hand, that makes sense given how the situation has changed.  On the other hand, I'm finding I care even less about the NXT veterans since they're probably only around to give the new class some work.  So far, 2.0 is making for boring tv for me.  Most of the new faces aren't catching my interest.

    Really thought Gonzalez would get drafted.  Wonder what that means?  I don't have much of an opinion about her, but her size makes her an obvious prospect and SDL could probably use her.  If she's not ready now, when will she be?  I don't think jobbing to Mandy Rose is going to get her closer to a call-up.

    I'm hoping the new format is just going through growing pains and will be a better tv product before too long, but I'm skeptical given WWE's track record at fixing its issues.  They've thrown too many people on tv with next to no introduction.  A couple weeks of promos for most people to introduce us to the characters wouldn't have been a bad idea.

    I tend to agree with every thing you wrote here. I checked out of the show already. I do think Bron Breakker is a gem and going to make them a bazillion dollars. But I also think that would still be the case had nxt stayed how it was and he came in through that system. The new presentation, tons of cookie cutter people debuting, the new nxt isn't for me. And that's okay.

    But I do wonder if some of those veterans still have a shot. They tend to do a draft in October then a "shake up" gimmick after Wrestlemania. So some of those guys still have a chance. Grimes sticks out to me. He'll probably put some new guys over for a while, go off of nxt for a minute, then show up on one of those shows after Mania. The same could happen for Dunn or Gonzales. I think O'Riley & Kushida are screwed tho. Gargano is already gone lol. He will show up somewhere new in January. Maybe AEW, maybe ROH, maybe MLW, maybe Impact. I have a hunch GCW is getting ready to take the next step and get a TV deal and he could help them out with star power. He's got a lot of options.

  10. 3 hours ago, Matt D said:

    Acclaimed vs Delaney/Cheech: I'd say more a case of missed opportunities than anything else. You want to see Delaney up against a guy like Archer right? that would have been true ten years ago at least. He had a good flurry but a guy on his level shouldn't be doing jumping springboard cutters. Cheech is another guy you'd probably like to see get mauled (I mean 15 years ago, right?). Caster could have done more with the rap considering who was in there. Kingston had some matches with Cheech in 05-06 and you kind of wish he'd been on commentary for this. It was obvious Tony had no idea who they were but that's ok. I like the Acclaimed in theory but you still get the sense they're putting it together. Both of them have around 200 matches on Cagematch despite being wrestling since 2015-6 and they'd just really benefit from House Shows.

    Colin & Cheech are one of the best teams in the entire world right now. If all you're familiar with of Colin is his ECW run 15 years ago that's not accurate to go off of for today. If anything working The Acclaimed, Colin & Cheech had to take their foot off the gas a whole lot. A showcase match with Santana & Ortiz would have been killer. I've seen them work Private Party & The Lucha Brothers and both matches knocked it out of the park. I get that this is just Elevation and you may not be familiar with their most recent work. But neither one of these guys should be looked at as an enhancement guy to bump around for a monster. They are much more valuable than that.

    • Like 5
  11. 2 hours ago, Craig H said:

    While both SD and Raw have gotten worse than they were when the brand split was first brought back, if you didn't have a brand split, then you never get Kofi or Big E with a run on top.

    We still haven't had them have a run on top. Big E is the secondary champion because Roman is obviously the top guy right now. Kofi was the secondary champion because the Seth / Brock match was clearly the number one spot. The brand split just waters everything down and makes everything mean less. You merge the brands and make one world championship and Kofi or Big E get a run with that, then you can say they had a run on top. As it is now by your definition can you really say Jinder Mahal & Jack Swagger had a "run on top"?

     

    2 hours ago, Craig H said:

    The major problem with Raw and SD and WWE in general is the problem that has existed for nearly 20 years. There's too many rematches, there's nothing to look forward to, Vince has completely forgotten how to effectively use enhancement talent/jobbers in lieu of, I don't know, re-running Big E vs Apollo Crews for the 14th time, and the writing is almost entirely terrible.

    Totally agree with you here. Which is why having a pool of 100 options for Crews to work vs only having 30 options is a way to not run rematches into the ground. You expand the roster and you automatically freshen up the potential options. That's not to say it would change the shows, because rematch to death is a crutch they will use regardless if there's 10 guys or 1,000 guys to pick from.

    Everyone is entitled to their opinion. I'm just of the opinion that the brand split sucks. As a kid in the 80s having Hogan be a champ on one show and Savage being the champ on another show would have been farrrr less entertaining than them getting to work with each other. That's the lens I'm viewing it through. Sure Jake & Piper & Dibiase would have had "runs on top" but the quality would have been much worse than what we got. Merging the roster would cut the championships in half and instantly make the top titles way more important again.

    • Like 1
  12. 3 hours ago, AxB said:

    "I got yelled at by Austin Aries for doing a headlock takeover that way. He told me you should always post and go down on one knee before you flip them over. Someone said hbk and Bret don't do that and he said "they're doing it wrong"

    Austin Ares is a dipshit, no argument there. But he's actually right in this instance. It's not that what Bret & Hennig did was wrong by any means, it's that they know what they're doing enough to deviate from the basics and keep each other safe. Bret & Curt probably worked each other 10,000 times and knew they could ramp it up and go harder than just the basics. But if I were in a match with a dude I've never worked with before (presumably like his scenario) and they guy did a headlock takeover like that without giving me a heads up in the back to know how to better protect myself, I'd be a little mad too.

    Wrestling is all about protecting your opponent. The way they do the headlock in the clip is not the safe way to do one. Which is okay they are both pros from wrestling families that know how to protect themselves and keep each other safe. But I have no idea who that worker is that tweeted that, but safe to say he ain't no Hennig or Hart. So I would not be happy with him taking liberties with me like that. Ares did a shit job of explaining *why* he was mad in this case. But he wasn't wrong.

    • Like 4
  13. Probably entering old man yelling at clouds territory but here's how you insert some internal logic into the draft and make it actually fun to watch in a few easy steps.


    1. Rebrand the titles. Get rid of the Raw & Smackdown names from titles. Universal for one set, World for the other. Then you pair the titles in value. World men's & Universal men's in one group, United States & Intercontinental in another, Universal & World Tags, Universal women's & World women's title. 24/7 & Women's Tag Team Titles are co branded. So you can pick the champion but the title isn't exclusive to your show. (I mean I would scrap the 24/7 title, and make a second set of Women's Tags to be brand specific but trying to make this as realistic as possible to the current state of WWE).

    2. Title parity. You say right off the bat champions are eligible to be drafted, but once a champion is drafted their counter part is automatically on the other show. So you can switch any title you want, but both shows stay even. Say Raw gets the first pick and picks Universal Champion Roman Reigns, then World Champion Big E is automatically on Smackdown without Fox needing to use a pick on him. (This also helps alleviate some of the ego problems of getting drafted lower than you think you should).

    3. Make it a shoot. We always hear about the network execs being upset about so and so being on the other show. Let them legit make the picks. Realism sells. And it's not like WWE booking is so hyper specific that it actually matters. Let the execs make the picks. Give them some agency over what their shows look like. You can't tell me with the haphazard way they currently do it that this would be too erratic. Let them make the picks and you write new stories going forward starting with the season premiere each year. That would actually be exciting to watch.

    4. Give them power to make trades during the year. If Fox really likes how Bailey looks when she returns but she's on Raw, let Fox make an offer of their people to USA. If they agree allow the switches. I mean it's all a work anyways. WWE should be able to take any situation and write their way out of it if that happens.


    Yes I know there's zero percent chance it would happen. But it's really not that hard to have an internal structure that puts real world logic into the draft each year.

    • Like 1
  14. 14 minutes ago, Eoae said:

    Did I read that only half of each roster is eligible to be drafted?  That's an... interesting... change.  Did they specify who decides which roster members to protect and which to make eligible to be drafted?  Coin flip?  Guess a number?

    I'm assuming we're not supposed to believe that an actual person (network exec?) selected half the roster to be protected and somehow decided to leave both Roman Reigns and Big E - the heavyweight champions - unprotected.  I mean, in kayfabe terms, that's sort of idiotic.  Smackdown could have protected Big E or Roman, then used their first pick to draft the other.  Then, they could have used their first pick to draft the other.

    It's not half the roster to be protected tho. It's been some form of this since the move to Fox. They designate half the people you're allowed to pick from on Night 1 and then the other half can be picked from on Night 2. In the past they've listed who can be drafter which night ahead of time, this year they didn't. They do this so USA doesn't get screwed. Because kayfabe wise if you let everyone be eligible off the bat then logically all the big stars are gone on night one.

    Now that doesn't hold up as making sense when Austin Theory & Madcat Moss or whatever are getting picked before actual big names. Like sure maybe Becky & Seth are not eligible until Monday. But there's gotta be 30 or more people that someone would draft before Theory & Moss that are supposed to be eligible night one. But WWE gonna WWE. Internal logic went out the window decades ago.

     

    20 minutes ago, Eoae said:

    A worked draft is really a sort of ridiculous proposition.  I know the idea is that we're going to tune in to see who is changing shows (lol), but the reality is that not that much changes and the draft picks tend to be nonsensical.

    Yes. This. There's no logical reason champions of a brand should be able to be drafted. They do this every year and it insults our intelligence, but we're supposed to believe "The Raw Women's Championship" is now a Smackdown title? Obviously she will drop it to a Raw person, or they'll just trade titles like New Day & Street Profits did last year. So dumb. Hate the lack of internal logic WWE has.

  15. From the September thread:

    16 hours ago, eikerir said:

    It’s definitely been individual entrances every two minutes in the past, which means the match can end before everyone’s in the match.

    16 hours ago, AxB said:

    That's what Tony Khan said on Busted Open. That it's timed intervals, but it can end at any time.

     

    Wait for real? My mistake then.

    I wish TK would give up on the deck of cards bullshit. Casino Battle Royals are always bad. We're two years in and they still can't get the production right for them. No one cares about what suit people draw. All the entrances are missed because of the person ahead of them hitting their hot spot. Just keep the surprise entrant element and scrap this concept man. Especially bad for a ladder match that can end before everyone has entered.
     

    • Like 2
  16. 32 minutes ago, caley said:

    I wish there was somebody honest enough and senior enough to write a history of how WCW conceived a big debut named the Yeti and ended up with a guy in a mummy costume doing THAT. Like how many committees or writers or focus groups or whatever did it go through where the Yeti (Presumably at SOME point, a big furry monster-type character) ended up being a bandage-wrapped mummy?! And presumably SOMEONE told him to do the double-bearhug and presumably SOMEONE told him to shake as he applied it because I can't believe these were the actual wrestler's decisions. I would watch an entire documentary about what happened that night.

    And just when I think we've seen the most bizarre wrestling clip ever...a new contender emerges. Why did Piper go THERE?! He could have bitten him on the upper outside thigh, or even more on the cheek but he's...right in there.

    As I remember it The Yeti was originally envisioned as Giant Gonzalez in a white fur version of his WWE bodysuit. Hogan had just got done doing a run of Baywatch with him and wanted him to be a monster of the week. But his health was failing at the time and it didn't workout. So Ron Reise took the spot but the outfit they had made didn't fit him at all. So they went with the pivot to the cheap mummy look. That then turned into a giant ninja. How an abominable snowman can be both a mummy and a ninja is beyond me... but '95 WCW is gonna '95 WCW.

    • Like 1
    • Thanks 1
  17. 3 hours ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

    I forget the Casino Ladder Match has individual entrances.

    Unless the match ends before the Joker comes out, I think this gimmick match might be a little too out there.

    They don't do the Casino Battle Royal timed entrances in this. It's just a ladder match. All 5 dudes enter before the match starts. It's just there's one surprise entrant. Which was Ethan Page last time they did this. And Brian Cage before him. Dare they go Cage, Page, Page as the jokers? lol

  18. Three games into a 17 game season and I have accepted The Giants are out of playoff contention already. While yes, after tonight they will only be two games back from first place, they also have a ridiculously hard schedule, an offensive line sponsored by moldy swiss cheese, and worst of all Evan Engram. If Gettleman survives this he clearly has dirt on John Mara. Every move since Mara got rid of Coughlin has been cursed.

    I can't imagine how hard it is to follow football when your favorite team is one of the long term losing franchises. While The Giants have been bad recently, they've been to 5 Superbowls in my lifetime. Life must be rough as a Lions fan.

    • Like 1
  19. 11 minutes ago, supremebve said:

    So, that's kind of what you get for trying a 68 yard field goal, right?

    Boooooooo.

    You're right. And this will certainly be a factor into teams trying less ridiculous field goals due to the consequences. But I love seeing teams try crazy shit like that. So I wish he didn't run it all the way back. Hook me up with more 70 yard field goal attempts.

    • Like 3
  20. Bischoff was a Minnesota guy. Hennig would still have made the jump because Bischoff would open the wallet for Larry The Axe's kid. I don't think much changes. Instead of having to go away after dropping the IC Title to Bret he probably slides back down the card and puts over a few new faces. Then gets repackaged in a tag team. Pretty much the M.O. of the day just like Dibiase & Honky Tonk. Looking at the roster in 1991 Shane Douglas was there and probably a good fit in a team with Hennig. Maybe gets a tag title reign, probably not. Probably jumps to WCW in the first wave of guys with Bossman, Earthquake, & Hogan and gets the Starrcade match against Hogan in 1994 instead of Beefcake. Jumps back for 1999 attitude hijinx like Earthquake, Bulldog, & Bossman. No Rap is Crap is about the only real tangible difference in this timeline. Probably doesn't make it past 2000 (like Bossman, Bulldog, & Earthquake).

    • Like 1
  21. 1 hour ago, Eoae said:

    Honestly, i wouldn't mind if people stopped cooperating with DSotR.  I feel like they've leaned hard into the tabloid trash aspect of the show.  Didn't feel like the first two seasons were as lurd/exploitative

    I understand your thoughts here. But if you've heard any of the podcasts the DSotR guys have been on or watched any of those wrap around shows you can see they are huge wrestling fans. They definitely don't give off the vibe of explorative scumbags. They just seem like well meaning nerdy wrestling super fans. But that they also feel the need to tell the stories as factually as they can. So I don't agree with you. Don't think they are leaning into the trashiest elements of things. Think they are just using the answers they get and the narrative follows as close as they can construct to the truth from people's accounts.

    But maybe I'm naive. I'll just say I hope they are well meaning, and not like your assessment of them.

    • Like 3
  22. 6 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

    I wonder if this burns any bridges with Bret. Given his attitude toward the widow Hart.

    It's possible. I wonder tho if even knowing Bret and Martha don't get along, if he's just happy Owen is finally going to be part of the wrestling community again. It's just me guessing here. But I think with Bret's love for the wrestling business, and Owen's memory finally being allowed to be a part of it, he's probably very happy about it. A lot of their grudge is over her not letting Owen's memory be associated with wrestling anymore. So maybe this helps their relationship a bit.

    • Like 8
×
×
  • Create New...