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Posts posted by Go2Sleep

  1. "Cesaro" reminds me less of Batista and Goldberg, and more of Lashley. Anyone else remember that 2-week stint where they tried to get that over?


    The funny thing about the Orton/HHH pairing is that their LMS was legitimately one of WWE's top matches of the decade, but every other match (and there were quite a few) was mediocre to awful. In the spirit of the omnibus thread, are there any other pairings of wrestlers who have had one truly great match together, and nothing else crossing average (let's say minimum 5 matches)?

  2. I think the booking is pointing towards Swagger as a face, with Cesaro as the heel with Zeb.

    Which will be soundly rejected by the fans.


    That would be beyond awful, but I don't think it will happen. I'm pretty sure Zeb will still turn on Cesaro and side with Swagger because Cesaro is still a Euro. I could easily see Swagger winning the IC, Cesaro losing the chamber, then Zeb immediately dumping him with the angle being "Why did Swagger get so many chances?" Then Cesaro beats Swagger at Mania and Extreme Rules (in a Flag match).

  3. Not surprised at Cesaro going over Orton. He's heating up and is the only non-established guy in the chamber, makes sense to give him a non-title win. I suspect Orton will go over Sheamus with some shenanigans on Monday to keep Christian from being the only loser. Should also be a good test-run for Cesaro as a face, I wonder how the crowd reacted to that match.


    That 6-man looks killer on paper.

  4. I wonder if this debate would look different if the PPV had one of the best matches of the year on it.


    Well, Rock/HHH from the show is probably borderline top 10 for the WWF that year, but believe me that says a lot more about 1999 WWF than the match itself. Holly/Snow hardcore match (went on before Owen) was a fringe match I could see some people getting behind.

  5. I imagine the gimmick sticks around. One thing all three need is just an angle to really develop. I mean, The Shield's main angle has been "kicking ass all day, every day" but with the exception of them being portrayed as paid muscle every now and then, they haven't had a lot of storyline based stuff. I mean, this Wyatt stuff is great, of course.  



    I think part of the reason the angle with the Wyatts is working so well is that it's the first real emotional feud The Shield has had. Everything else has just been business for them. 


    The good thing about the Shield is that there is a lot of mileage left in them as a group, but all 3 would be really good in singles, so it doesn't really matter what happens to them. I don't think WWE can actually make a wrong decision here (how they handle the post-breakup should they go that route is another story).


    Reigns is hot right now and rightly so, and people recognize Ambrose's promo skill will keep him in prominent angles for a long time, but I think people are sleeping on how much upward mobility Seth Rollins has if he turns face. I've said it before, but he's everything they wanted Dolph Ziggler to be, except better and without a stupid name. 

  6. I watched the show last year when I was re-watching the Austin era (literally every Raw, SD and ppv from Survivor Series 97 through 1999), so that's one non-morbid reason someone might watch the show. Still, I was dreading it going in, and didn't feel any better after watching it or the Owen tribute Raw. And good luck editing it, after it happens, you can tell everybody else on the show is affected by it. There's at least two backstage promos where he's mentioned, The Rock makes a tribute to him mid-match, and the Union/Corporate Ministry match is just unsettling as fuck because you can tell during the long announcer silence when they got the news.


    Anyway, since I did watch all of 1999 WWF, I find the Kane/Jericho discussion much more interesting. Kane had the surprisingly good WM match with HHH and some fun tags with X-Pac (w/Chyna vs. X-pac/HHH at SVDM and w/ X-Pac vs. Taker/Show at Summer Slam are the most notable). He did also have some terrible matches with Show (the KOTR match was particularly dire). Jericho really had nothing to show in the ring. His promos and character work were great, but his only big feuds were Road Dogg and Chyna. The Armageddon match against Chyna is way better than it should've been, but still hard to say it was better than average. It comes down to how much your weighting promos and gimmicks in your analysis. If you favor them heavily, then Jericho probably still edges out Kane as he was much easier to watch week to week. If it's in-ring only, no doubt Kane had better matches (and worse matches) than Jericho, so while both guys didn't have much to write home about, Kane would get the nod there I think.

  7. Do you have any reason to say they're losing heat, or did you just run out of things to blame on the Outlaws?



    They're getting cheered less because more people are cheering for the Outlaws who should be the heels? 

  8. Killed the Rhodes? One is as old as the Outlaws, the other will never be as over as he is now. It's not like anybody was derailed or anything.


    Yeah, they were on a pretty good roll before the Outlaws showed up. Even if they were dropping a few too many non-title matches, they were at least having good matches and were over. Now the Rhodes Bros are having their worst matches as a team and are losing heat because they're constantly jobbing to a team that hasn't been relevant since 1999 and working as tweeners for no discernible reason. It was fun to see the Outlaws on Old School Raw where they belong, but whoever thinks it's a good idea to have these guys holding the straps and working 10+ minute matches every week needs their head examined.

  9. In agreement that this was a very good show top to bottom.


    The opening tag was a great story-telling match. Ambrose and Reigns being casually dominant while they try to psych each other out was so cool. Rollins was great on commentary, don't know if his line about 3MB made the airing of if that was app filler. It's interesting how he's transitioned into being the leader when Ambrose was clearly in that position last year. 


    The Shield/Wyatt dueling promos continue to rule. Best WWE feud in forever. So simple, but so great. I hope they just keep talking and beating jobber teams and don't touch before the ppv.


    Good promo from Titus. I hope he can find a spot on this deep roster. Surprisingly inspired attack from Young as well afterwards. I still don't have faith in creative to do much for these guys after their feud, but they're at least making a strong case for deserving some more tv time.


    Bryan/Cesaro was solid. They definitely could do better, but this was a fun counter-based match with each guy showing some new variations of trademark spots. Great looking finish, and Cesaro's reaction afterwards was a beautiful, subtle way to put over how hard-fought the match was.


    Bray/Goldust was good and did what it needed to do. Bray is really good at working his character into his matches, and Goldust was digging deep into his bag of tricks to keep up with him. 


    Sheamus/Ryback was a poor man's version Sheamus/Show, but a decent amount of fun. Definitely the best thing Ryback has done since bullying backstage employees.


    Orton/Christian was one of their lesser matches, but they have good chemistry. Loved the app filler/unaired segment where Orton cheap heats the shit out of Des Moines. Find that if you didn't see it, it was almost Angle-esque. I also ironically like the fact that these constantly use the springboard counter finish. It's a great little running joke. When will Christian ever learn?

  10. I'm not sure why anyone would knock HHH for his talent assessment. Sheamus was a good find, all the Shield guys came in under his watch, as did Cesaro and the Wyatts. Not sure if Bryan was his pickup or not, he might've been there a little before HHH was in charge. Even if he can't take credit for Bryan, he still has a stellar hit/miss ratio.


    Why people would complain about that instead of the Outlaws having tag title reign in 2014 that lasted more than a week and effectively killed the Rhodes brothers is beyond me.

  11. Naomi is like the diva version of Shelton Benjamin. Great athlete capable of doing big spots, but pretty botch-tastic and doesn't have a good sense of timing or laying out a decent match around the big spots. Her personality on Total Divas doesn't come across as well in the "WWE universe" either, although that's probably more of a writing thing. I hear Aksana is notoriously bad, so I won't take that match into consideration, but I haven't seen anything from her that compares to the AJ/Kaitlyn ppv matches from last summer.


    I don't wanna sound too down on Naomi, though. I think she has potential and I'm for her getting chances, but she's not on AJ's level right now imo.

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  12. I wanna know why that person with the long rant on Punk has so much against AJ. It sounds like more than just spillover from being bitter towards Punk. Because AJ is clearly the best diva on the roster by a lot right now. The Total Divas "pipebomb" promo was probably a cutesy little insider nod, but I don't see anyone that would be challenging her reign as champion regardless of who she's dating. I'm almost thinking it was a diva who leaked it, or at least someone who has strong ties to one of the other divas. Tyson Kidd maybe?

  13. Bryan v. Orton is definitely being slept on. These two click the way Orton and Christian clicked. Bryan has reached a point where he is consistently delivering matches of the year on random inconsequential raws. We're all spoiled.


    How many wrestlers on the roster have ever had a match as good as Bryan v. Orton from last night? That could actually be a fun thread.


    I'll take a stab:


    Alberto Del Rio (Big Show LMS or Ziggler double turn match at Payback)

    Antonio Cesaro (Ignoring indy work, at least his segment of the Bryan gauntlet)

    Big Show (ADR LMS, Mayweather)

    Bray Wyatt (Rumble vs. Bryan)

    Brock Lesnar (Eddie, Taker HIAC, Benoit, Rey, Cena, take your pick)

    Christian (Some of the Orton matches, ECW work, and I personally love the first TLC)

    CM Punk (Does he still count? Lesnar, Rey, Hardy, Cena)

    Dean Ambrose (various 6 mans)

    Dolph Ziggler (vs. ADR at Payback)

    John Cena (Umaga, Orton, Michaels, Punk, Lesnar, take your pick)

    Rey Mysterio (Eddie, Jericho, Punk, countless WCW cruiser matches)

    Roman Reigns (various 6 mans)

    Ryback (Shield debut TLC)

    Seth Rollins (various 6 mans, a couple singles with Bryan)

    Sheamus (HHH at Extreme Rules 2010, Bryan 2/3 falls)

    HHH (Rock IM, Foley, Michaels, Orton LMS, take your pick)

    Taker (Foley, Michaels, Lesnar, Angle)

    Usos (w/Bryan vs. Shield on SD last year)

    William Regal (Benoit, Finlay, NXT work)


    Orton/Bryan was quite good, but it's no lock for MOTY or anything. Lots of other guys on the roster have had MOTYC level matches, though. 

  14. We need more Ambrose/Bray dueling promos. I feel like I should pay to see the Shield/Wyatts match. That's gonna be so great.


    Props to Bryan for getting something out of Orton in their match. The first few minutes were kinda bad and I really thought Orton was gonna drag Bryan to his level, but then Bryan did that killer leg work sequence and woke Orton from his 6-month coma. We actually did see a little "vintage Orton" in that match. Make no mistake, it would still be terrible for Orton to headline Mania and a program with Batista is still DOA, but hopefully he can settle back into his solid upper midcard role he has held down so well in the past. Not crazy about Kane getting involved, hopefully that's a red herring.


    Some other weird stuff on this show too. Aksana's knee drop, Big E hardway-ing another Shield guy, Cody's moonsault (with really odd camera angles), Miz's thing, Lawler's nonsensical interaction with Barrett, Emma's debut for someone who doesn't follow NXT... A lot of WTF moments for one show.

  15. A couple cross posts from squash matches. Smackdown had some quality beatdowns in the mid 2000s.


    That chair shot... That ring post bump...



    JBL warming up for an I Quit match.



    Edit: Oh man, I forgot how crazy this one was. Here's a beatdown that's as much psychological as it is physical. God damn Brock Lesnar rules.


    • Like 1
  16. I think Harper might be a top five wrestler on the roster right now.


    He's definitely in my top 5. It's a deep roster, but only Bryan and Lesnar are undeniably better, and I'd let Cena skate on reputation too. Depends how you rank Cesaro, Rollins, Goldust, Christian, etc. I'm just glad people are noticing Luke Harper, because I know I was on the front end of that bandwagon. 


    Anyway, on SD, the Shield/Wyatt promos are basically the essence of pro wrestling. It really does feel like an epic clash in the making. Rollins mic work was really good during the Shield segment as the voice of reason. I also loved his "pumped up" mannerisms after the Wyatts' promo. Everyone in a mile radius should fear for their safety, but none of those 6 should be scared in the slightest. God I can't wait for that match.


    Cesaro/Ziggler was solid. I really want Cesaro to get a post-Mania push, maybe win MITB this year.


    When I saw Christian/Swagger, I remembered that we're about at the 4 year anniversary of their excellent ECW match where it looked like Swagger was gonna be huge. Times have changed, but these two still have excellent chemistry and Christian didn't waste a second taking an insane bump. Definitely the best Swagger match in some time.


    The PTP break up would be inspiring if I had any confidence that either guy is gonna last more than 2 months in singles. Darren looks like he'll be hitting the ME/Superstars circuit in about a month, and it's hard to imagine Titus getting farther than an IC program with Langston (and losing). Good showing from Titus here, though, and Darren's busted lip helped things a lot.


    The 6-man main was good. I love it when WWE teams do the Japan formula finish where the obvious ace tags the obvious weak link and it's only a matter of time before the #1 or 2 guy on the other team puts him away. Daniel Bryan is the hottest of hot tags. Tangentially related, I wish we could go back in time and have Reigns get the superman punch over as his main finisher. It looks way better than his spear (which is overdone as is), but he's stuck with the spear now thanks to Survivor Series.

  17. I'd also like to see a southern brawling team of Stan Hansen and Bradshaw.


    Daniel Bryan could have a lot of great potential partners. I'd like to see him with Regal or Finlay (or Benoit if you're ok with that)


    Come to think of it, it's too bad Regal and Finlay spent most of their careers fighting each other (as awesome as it was) instead of making a badass Euro-shoot team. I think they were briefly aligned in Booker T's stable in 2006, but can you imagine late 90s Finlay and a sober Regal with more of a Wade Barrett gimmick than a blue blood gimmick? 

  18. Right now, I'd love a Christian/Goldust tag team. Feel-good old guys who can still go, and either one can be the FIP or the hot tag.


    Assuming all guys are at their peak, all-time, I'd want Vader/Lesnar for my dominating heels, Styles/Bourne as my babyface flyers, and Kobashi/Joe as badass faces (preferably in an American promotion so I can see some mid-90s Kobashi doing hot tag sequences).

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