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Posts posted by Go2Sleep


    Still have no idea why they abandoned the Kofi/Woods/Big E stable.

    Would you trust WWE writers - who cannot manage a straightforward storyline under normal circumstances - to write for 3 black men who are angry for reasons that include, but are not limited to: "We're black and the WWE hates us because of that"?  


    I know I don't. 



    I'd be more worried about the inevitable improv guest commentary experience with JBL and Lawler.


    Although when I said I have no idea why they dropped it, I didn't consider "Vince/a bunch of white writers suddenly developing a sufficent sense of self-awareness to understand they couldn't craft that angle in a non-insensitive fashion" to be a realistic possibility.

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  2. You have to ask the question: could a Stone Cold, or a CM Punk or a Daniel Bryan happened somewhere else? Was it the machine that made them?


    Stone Cold, probably not, just because the Vince feud was so essential to his character.


    Bryan and Punk absolutely could've happened in a WCW-level promotion. They were already massively popular on the indies which gave them a strong foothold in WWE. The only difference between them being massively popular in the indies and being massively popular in WWE was their level of exposure. Those two just connect with fans and "get it" when it comes to wrestling. Outside of providing the platform due to being a virtual monopoly, WWE contributed very little as to why those two were successful.

  3. For some reason I thought Kane had a hell of a lot more face/heel turns than he's actually had.


    I'm trying to catalog all of Kane's turns after reading this...


    1997 - Debuts as a heel

    1998 - Turns face for the initial BoD run

    1999 - Joins the corporation as a heel (with some internal conflict)

    1999 - X-Pac turns him face with the power of friendship

    2000 - Turns on Taker out of the blue

    2001 - ??? Face turn, perhaps catalyzed by his Rumble performance, was def. back in BoD by No Way Out

    2003 - Turns heel after being unmasked

    2005 - De facto face turn via Edge/Lita angle

    2006 - May 19th stuff, turns on tag partner Big Show

    2006 - ??? Face turn ??? was def. a face by the end of the year feuding with MVP


    Hard to imagine he stayed clean for 4 years, but I honestly can't remember anything here


    2010 - Turns after cashing in MITB on Rey, feuds with Taker

    2011 - Turns face with Show to fight the Corre

    2012 - Comes back with the mask as a heel for Cena/Ryder feud

    2012 - Daniel Bryan and Dr. Shelby turn him face with the power of friendship

    2013 - Hands over the mask to join the Authority

  4. 20140826_RawGOTN_v1.gif


    AJ/Paige reminds me of the Trish/Mickie feud around WM 22. I always felt like WWE dropped the ball with that one. The post-Mania stuff with Mickie pretending to be Trish and Trish pretending to be Mickie was really fun. Then they dropped it out of the blue, and Trish got hurt shortly after to really put the nail in the coffin. Hopefully AJ and Paige can spend a couple months trying to out-crazy one another before they get a wild blowoff match.

  5. On Bryan feuding with Kane after Mania:


    I actually think that was a really great post-Mania feud for him. Yes, Kane is generally terrible when he's pushed as a main eventer and deservedly has a reputation of being a filler feud for anyone of significance he's programmed with, but that's not a huge concern when you're talking about someone who was on pace to be the next super-face of this generation. The Kane feud was a tacit acknowledgement that Bryan had really made it. The fact that he was getting a throwaway match against a guy who had zero chance of winning as a ppv main event proved that he was on top of the mountain. That's a position normally reserved for Cena. The only thing they did wrong was the "serious neck injury" angle. One garden-variety beatdown to build heat and fill a video package would've been fine. Kane should've been stooging around for Bryan like he did during the actual match for the whole feud. Save the "serious" stuff for when the Lesnar feud rolls around, which I assume was the plan prior to Bryan getting (or realizing how bad he was) hurt.

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    I'm struggling to come up with names as far as who were amongst the first to be "tested" with a de-push. RVD in 2002/2003? Christian 2005? Sure, Mark Henry and Big Show had gone down to OVW in 2000 or so, but I think a lot of that was conditioning issues. What do you guys think?



    It depends what you mean by "de-push." The Rock and Kurt Angle spent quite a bit of time slumming it the midcard after significant title wins, but they won most of their midcard feuds which probably helped them when they were quickly shoved back up the card.


    If you're talking about guys doing a lot of jobs, it's probably the bigger names of the Alliance. Booker T really stands out since he was pushed as WCW's top guy by virtue of having the belt. He quickly and deciscively lost that to The Rock and spent rest of the invasion jobbing, as many non-defector Alliance-originals did. I honestly can't remember the first feud Booker won in WWE. Did he slip something in February of 02? I'm drawing a blank between getting beat up in the supermarket and losing to Edge in the shampoo feud. I remember he did end up winning a program with Show by the summer of 02 at the latest.


    Edit: It was almost certainly the Big Show feud. I just remembered post-Mania he joined up with NWO 02, and got kicked out by Michaels which is what turned him face.


    Unrelated, but was that NWO 02 stable weird or what? Didn't it go from Hogan/Hall/Nash to Michaels/Flair/Waltman/Booker/Show or something like that? What was up with that?

    • Like 1
  7. On the plus side, at least Cesaro's winning again. Those sirens they added to his music are horrible, though.


    Heel Cena vs. Face Bray was great in a vacuum, but being a one-week throwaway match makes it horrible for both of them. Bray's probably really hating that Del Rio slapped that guy, because he almost certainly would've been in that spot instead were he still around.


    Didn't care much for the Bella segment. Nikki and Brie still sharing a twitter handle is a real kayfabe-breaker in 2014. And you'd think once they saw how Brie was holding up her end of the Steph feud, they would've quit putting her in spots where passable acting is required.

  8. So do we think Cena walking out as champion at NOC will help subscriptions or lose more? I cannot fathom anyone who is on the fence seeing this and deciding to give WWE more money.


    I think it's definitely more likely to lose than gain network subs, but who knows to what degree? There's probably a big enough anti-Cena contingent out there that knows unsubscribing is a really good way to stick it to WWE right now to make a difference, but they could just be all talk as usual.



    I would laugh if I saw some "If Cena wins, we don't renew our network subscription" signs at NOC, though.

  9. I always wondered what the endgame was for either of those "Vince gets killed" storylines they tried in the late 2000s (limo explosion and the stage collapsing on him during that million dollar promotion). If I remember right, the limo was supposed to tie into the illegitimate son storyline with Kennedy, but ended up being Hornswoggle. It was really awkward because they did the fake tribute show right before Benoit, and then had to scrap everything. I don't remember anything with the follow up to the stage collapse.

  10. Byron and Renee need to learn that people care about who wins in the ring, not who wins their fucking arguments. I was pumped that Riley was no where to be found this episode, but Saxton was just as bad. It can't be that hard to just watch old tapes of Heenan- or even Ventura if all of their Heenan footage was lost in a fire- and go 'oh that's how you do this.'


    The NXT announcing used to be really interesting, even if it wasn't always good. Everybody seemed to have some individuality and it was neat to listen to the different combinations have to learn to work with each other while developing their own identities in the booth. Now, though, it's pretty obvious they're all starting to become WWE-standardized and it's getting annoying. I guess when you have to look up to the god-awful Cole/Lawler/JBL trio as what your company is going to push as top announcing, your prospects are doomed to fail.


    This show was fun, though. The Kalisto/Sin Cara team is really impressive. Kalisto is just super fun (God, I hope we get to see him and KENTA work each other), and Sin Cara II looks a lot more motivated on NXT. Both guys have great chemistry and do a great job looking like they catch their opponents off guard with all their big moves.


    I was also pleasantly surprised to see the Vaudevillains dispatch Cass/Enzo so quickly. Hopefully whoever wins the tourney will mercifully end The Ascension's title reign.


    Charlotte/Becky was pretty good too (really liked the opening mat exchanges where it looked like they were both actually trying to win), even though I don't really like what they're doing with either character. The term "flair guns" was great, although it would've been infinitely better if they cut out all the other aspects of the Flair tribute act. It's so unnatural for her and it's counter-productive at this point. Also not sure why they insist on making Becky do some ridiculous mannerism a hundred times a match that doesn't accomplish anything. First it was the Irish jig, now it's the head-banging. She's a ball of energy with a lot of fighting spirit. That's all you need with her level of technical skill.

  11. If they really want to make Brock look (even more) unstoppable, they could do a submission match and have Cena tap for the first time in 10+ years.


    The more I think about it, I can't see anything good coming from a Cena win. Even if Rollins cashed in, either him or Ambrose would end up as a lame-duck champ, and their HIAC would work a lot better without the title anyway. Rollins has been pretty well protected unlike a lot of recent MITB winners, but a HIAC against Ambrose is a perfect time for him to do a clean job without losing any steam.

  12. I would think the hasty re-match around subscription time would ensure Lesnar winning. There has to be way more intrigue with Cena getting destroyed twice and all the potential fresh matchups with Brock than the same old shit with Cena as champ and wasting two of the most important wins ever in WWE in the process... But maybe I'm wrong.


    Also, any chance of gimmick for this match?

  13. Everything from Rollins and Ambrose tonight was really good. The backstage promo was one of the best this year, and the match was the top-10 level match we all knew they could have. Ambrose has all his character stuff down pat, but Rollins really brought it here too with just the right balance of mixing it up and running away at certain times. Underrated moment was Rollins futily swinging the kendo stick at Ambrose before the catapult. All the move sequences were sharp as expected, and the big spots were really big. That Liger-bomb into the chairs and the superplex through the table had the right levels of flashiness and brutality. The match also overcame the two things that could've taken it down on paper: Kane and the cinder block setup. Ambrose fought off Kane long enough to look good, and while the presence of the cinder blocks was pro-wrestling silly, the fact that we got to see the curb stomp on an actual curb (like setup) made up for it. Perfect way to build heat for Ambrose being off tv until HIAC where he can get his win. Rollins' mannerisms after the stomp were really strong too, ranging from a "Wow that might've been too much" to "There was no other way." And for the second night in a row, Charles Robinson put on a clinic of compassionate reffing.


    I have no idea why none of this was on the ppv last night.

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  14. It's really weird to me that everyone is talking about Bryan, Reigns an Ambrose when it's pretty clear that they're just gonna feed Brock some jabronis for a little bit until Cena, fresh off some training montages and redemption promos, comes back and beats Lesnar by taking advantage of his arrogance. Probably Survivor Series.


    Not that it would surprise me, but this would be really terrible. Beating Brock now is a career win for somebody, and Cena is very last guy on the roster who needs a career win.


    We can only hope they feed him jabronis, though. Even though Ziggler has the IC now, I'd still love to see him bump around for Lesnar.

  15. Decent show overall. A few boring spots, but definitely a couple good highs too.


    I'm not sure anyone's commented on Ziggler winning the IC belt yet. That was certainly unexpected. I'm happy for Dolph. He's not the greatest, but he has his moments and he's way too over to be jobbing like he has for the last year.


    Paige/AJ was pretty solid, definitely more of what I expected from these two when they paired up. Paige's character work is catching up to her already great ring work. I love her cradle DDT finisher, and she had a nice transition into it from the black widow here.


    The "flag match" was decent. A dueling injuries storyline is a pretty reliable formula for any two semi-competent wrestlers. Rusev had strong performance here, and I'm glad he got the decisive win.


    The lumberjack match was as good as it could've been. No doubt these two have a MOTYC in them somewhere, but there was too much gimmicky stuff going on here for it to be this one. The lumberjacks running around like the Keystone Cops and doing the Adam Rose entrance for Seth Rollins was kind of amusing.


    Bray/Jericho was just there. Bray's lost so much steam over the summer and Jericho's not reliable every night anymore. That finish was a sad attempt at recreating the Rumble finish with Bryan.


    Steph/Brie was nowhere near as good as the story leading up to it. Steph brought it, but Brie totally wilted under the pressure. She had no fire and couldn't sell the easiest of revenge angles. The structure was pretty bad too with Steph controlling the early parts of the match, further taking the crowd out of it. HHH's sell of the baseball slide was nice, though. And Nikki must've channeled the spirit of Misawa with that forearm to keep Brie down for so long.


    Reigns/Orton was disappointing. Not because it was a terrible match, but rather it was a blandly average match despite both guys obviously trying very hard. Reigns is nowhere near ready for the main event. There's no way he can sustain the reactions to justify a program with Lesnar with performances like this. Like I said, he needs some midcard feuds with Sheamus and Cesaro to get better.


    There's not much left to say about Cena/Lesnar. That match had some Vader/Misawa tendencies, and it was exactly what it needed to be. Brock's character work was off the charts, and Cena sold his end of the story very well too. That shot in the corner after the AA where Cena just knows he's toast was tremendous. Kind of surprised to see him take all those head drops given his injury history, but man did it make Lesnar look like a killer. For storytelling purposes, this match should've happened before their previous one, but obviously no one thought that far in advance. Great effort from everyone here, though, and props to WWE for having the balls to try something totally different. That has to be the squashiest advertised ppv main ever, right?

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