evanknight

What a long strange year it has been. The tv shows started out strong, with a unique feel, then it became a glorified Dark, currently it's an above average show focusing on some good characters and having good matches, mostly where it should be. I think there were maybe two more phases in there honestly, but it has settled into something that is enjoyable viewing, but not must see. They really need to draw a harder line between AEW and ROH to not drag down both. It'll be interesting to see how long they carry on like this though, because there doesn't seem to be much upside to it. I still believe that a few minor tweaks could turn it though and make it worth a subscription. All that said, I hope the blow off for the Infantry and Outrunners is saved for the PPV. You have that, the women's TV title finals, Dalton & Johnny, then mix in the champs and you should have a solid Supercard.

Athena/Billie has been real good pro wrestling, build the build for everything else is lacking. That said Final Battle is shaping up to be a good show. Pairing Taylor and Lee 1 year after the tag match which was out of the blue then is just weird. With a little separation and some attention I still do think ROH could be a benefit, but really the entirety of the presentation now is just weird. AEW seems to love the tournaments that don’t seem to go over well (with some even saying this round robin is confusing?), that’s where they should double down with ROH. Anyone actually paying for HonorClub would probably be down with a long drawn out points driven over arching story and gives a reason to stay subscribed. Go all out for a season long.

Trent getting the crowd that into a Peter Avalon match shows how underrated he is. I really want to see the Outrunners vs Iron Savages at Final Battle.

I could not disagree with that more. You have to keep some reasons for people to pay for the product

Tonight’s episode of ROH is the first one I’ve been looking forward to in a long time. First time it feels like ROH is getting its own attention.

This highlights the perception (reality?) problem with current ROH. Every time something is good, there is the call that it should have been in AEW instead. A good amount of the “best of ROH” under Tony has already been under an AEW banner

They have so much talent and so many titles under the umbrella they just need to keep putting everyone on every show.

The weird thing to me isn't just the lack of build to the PPV, but how the things they have build don't play out there. Seems like the Athena/Hogan street fight could have been on the PPV; Willow deserves a proper program with her, especially given how good the little they had on twitter was. Embassy would have gotten way more out of a PPV match with the Daniels/Sydal/Martin trio after they one a few tv matches then they did as is and with this odd PPV match, IMO. Then guys like the Infantry, Neese & Davari, etc have been getting tv time and then nothing on the big show day. Looks like it will be a solid show, just not one I am dropping money for and going out of my way to see. Anyway, does the Kingdom get the win here? Were their losses to the Infantry and Martin/Andretti, and then the competitive match with the Boys "division builders"? Shae Taylor needs something to go along with his forearm for it to be a finisher. I don't imagine him doing a full spin or anything, but it seems off as is.

This has to be the worst build to a PPV by any major company in history no? I can’t think of any other that felt like the company putting out the show could not care less if people bought it. In my head a got a flash of some WWE December PPV like 20 something years ago, but I’m not going to go looking. Seriously though, this has really just been crazy. I guess the real question is if their numbers look dramatically different? Maybe it’s some crazy experiment to try and gauge the audience?

I don’t think they have a good challenger option at this point, which is kind of crazy given the talent they have available and the freedom with the brand who will generally get on board with a good match and straightforward story. At this point I’ll probably skip ordering the PPV and just watch it later when it hits HonorClub.

I may be in the minority, but I will buy an ROH PPV, but I have no interest in an AEW B show PPV.

The only problem with the Infantry angle is that is nearly identical to what they just did with Martin & Andretti. and while they are focusing on Embassy and Athena, they aren’t really building either to a PPV blow off

There’s an ROH PPV in what, 3 weeks, and I have no real idea how it’s going to shape up, but if you aren’t flying in international talent for dream matches, you have to have some stories to sell shows. Champ hasn’t been involved in anything on the show since the last PPV, tag champs have just showed up last two weeks out of no where for 8-man matches. The tag titles have to come off of Lucha Bros if they aren’t actually working ROH I half thought they reunited Daniels and Sydal for another run, looks like they may be heading to a match with Viking and Komander? If so, I still hope they do a title change Last weeks show felt like the least “ROH” (probably produced by the same people that made Collision the least “AEW” show). It’s been trending more towards “Dark” recently and I think this PPV will be important. I can see a lot of fans sitting this one out at this rate.

Reading through all the comments about the theme song and trying to remember actually caring about an intro song for any wrestling show ever.

I don’t want to totally defend it, but it wasn’t the bottom of her feet going from the stage to the ground, but theoretically her upper back/head falling to the ground that impacted. I’d agree if sounds like an oversell , which is counterproductive, but not just some gross over exaggeration like a crowd size or something like that.

Just got finished with last week’s episode, so glad they have announced the return to the Universal tapings, they last few weeks aren’t the same as the first batch of tapings, and aren’t something I can see myself paying for long term. There are definitely matches worth going out of your way to see, but for me paying needs to be must see. I liked some of the Iron Savages stuff on Dark, so was excited to see them here, but I disliked literally everything about their segment.

I was saying that those paying for a streaming service are invested enough to care about the product beyond the top stars. There should be pure rules matches for 3-6 ranked type of guys fighting to get to the top. And there should be a women’s dues with no one holding a belt. Like give me a reason to care about sky blue or the workhorsemen. I want to see more Coleman sit downs and motivations across the lineup

I liked the fresh show leading into the PPV, but I think it’s going to be near impossible to do a ROH show that people will pay for piggybacked on an AEW tv tapping. You’re trying to satisfy to different demographics at the same time. ROH needs to be more episodic, involving storylines for secondary characters at its core for it to be a weekly show worth a subscription.

Have all the titles except the TV title been updated? Is there something more to that?

“Sympathy” is exactly why I am happy Mark didn’t win. This match was great, Mark is a really good pro-wrestler, but if he won at Supercard there are people that would have argues it was only for the sympathy gesture, and he deserves way better than that. Also, I love been drawn into a story and then not having it play out the way I guessed and still make sense and make me more interested. i am firmly in the camp that this was the right call to make

Independently, I’d argue both Briscoe and Eddie losing were the right calls, but I could possibly see the argument against both on the same night without a big feel good moment. ROH would be less compelling with Kingston and Mark being champs and Mark’s win down the road in his own story arc. Kingston is like Homicide where his whole story is the chase and it will probably be a short run on top. Though, I’d also argue Dreamer should have never beat Raven. My only real criticism of the show was a was hoping this would be the beginning of the hard separation between ROH and AEW and that wasn’t the case.

Really been enjoying the new era of ROH. I’ll admit I was on the fence about $10 Honor Club, but if the keep up this pace three months in, I think it will be a hard question for a better wrestling use of $30. I do think they should include an off-PPV month “Clash” type card in addition to the weekly. I think they’ve done a good enough job separating ROH from AEW, which was my big concern. People “complaining” about so much good wrestling reminds my of 2004 ROH I love the pricing ground concept and it really adds another layer to champions matches Athena has not 100% fully found herself character wise, which is kind of crazy considering she is a standout highlight among a lot of talented wrestlers There’s been a lot to like in 6 hours and very little to seriously complain about.

Didn’t they do that with Jamie Noble and Nidia?

I’ve said the same thing about Silas. I think him with a female like Woman coming out in an old school robe could be fantastic in the right feud.

That was fantastic. Thank you very much.