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I'm just genuinely disappointed that a black person is in here telling you why blackface shit should be off the Network, a position that I would guess most black folks will hold (speaking as one), and some of y'all want to argue with him. "Think of Bad News's kids!" "But it'll be lost to history." Folks, Bad News's kids or grandkids or whatever have plenty of footage available out there in which he isn't wrestling a racist dude in half-blackface to watch. And if some of y'all are worried about history being lost, well, the Germans banned Nazi paraphernalia post-WW2, but every German knows about them in 2021. That comparison is not, in any way, meant to be anything but an example of how banning something from the arena of casual entertainment does not erase it from historical consciousness in any way. If that blackface or Vince taking Cena's goofy white guy rapper gimmick to what is an unfortunate conclusion in real life for most goofy white guy rappers is put into a historical context - say a documentary in which the racism of wrestling is closely discussed and analyzed by experts - that's one thing. But "it's on the Network to enjoy freely" is not a context in which this stuff is necessary. I'm going to be honest, "I didn't enjoy the blackface BUT" sounds a lot like a special version of "I'm not racist BUT" wherein a) you actually did enjoy the blackface, just admit it to yourself and deal with what that means for you, or b) you value having a complete show with nothing edited out over respect for the dignity of your fellow humans. And no, there is no "but let's look at the other side here!" You know the history of blackface in media in this country. You know how it has traditionally been used to portray black people. You are making a deliberate choice about valuing something else over the decency of not having that stuff free to consume as pure entertainment outside of any educational context. Which is what it is, but this is why I usually don't talk about stuff like this - you can't change people's values or make them consider The Other. They have to come to that consideration themselves.

It goes back further than that. Monsoon would make gay jokes about Patterson and Terry Garvin on commentary all the time. The term "cancel culture" is getting close to "SJW" and "PC" when it comes to terms that, when I hear them, it's a red flag that the person saying it is garbage.

That's exactly when you have to question why you're watching what you're watching. It's not an issue of censorship. It's an issue of when did the toxicity of not just WWE but wrestling in general overpower whatever good can come out of it. In this specific case, WWE has done an absolutely horrendous job explaining why instances like that (the blackface) are despicable. They had THIRTY years to call that out, give their fanbase an education on why those things are wrong, and make a decision to edit it or alter so it wasn't offensive. Once you fail to do that, you automatically waive the right to just put up an advisory warning. You've proved to be completely irresponsible in that department so you're not going to get the benefit of the doubt once another party acquires the rights to the content. WWE got to be an outlaw for multiple decades and profit off of racism, transphobia, homophobia, etc. That time has come and gone. Once you enter the real business environment, the reality is you have to adhere to a set of rational standards everyone else has to adhere to. Call it PC or whatever you want. That's reality. You can wear whatever bigoted stuff you want at your house. It's your domicile. Once you enter a public workspace with others, that no longer applies. Content is no different. That shit can stay in the vault all day and not be touched because it's sitting idle. Once it's made to be viewed by the public and for profit, it has to adhere to those standards. How hard is that to understand? Has no one ever held a job before? I'm starting to see that it isn't just Vince that's behind the times, but his current and former fanbase is as well if not more than Vince.

So Piper doing blackface in 1990 was some bygone era? Vince dropping the n-bomb in 2005 happened during the good old days?

Clearly, The Comedian set a tone for this thread we could not return from. ?

That's where we're in agreement. I've never said once that you have do a total scrub where you take away the visual aspect. It's not that hard to remove six or seven seconds of audio. There are creative ways you can remove stuff without it being harmful to your overall viewer experience. And the stuff that has to be removed where the visual component is part of? Just the cost of doing business. I've learned from the Chris Benoit discussion we had here (I wanna say a year or so ago now maybe or longer) that people will die on that hill if need be. Like I'm talking get bayoneted in the throat like a soldier in a war movie. It's not really a zero sum game in this aspect because my argument has never been touch everything. The troubling aspect for all involved is IF you have to because it's so toxic. If your leg gets gangrene and the doctor says the infection has spread to the point where amputation is necessary, you can get second opinion after second opinion. That leg has got to go. It's not because the doctor doesn't like you having two legs. That's not gonna help you at all to blame the doctor(s). You're the one who didn't go to the doctor before the infection spread and it was far too late. What you're having is a bunch of individual, tiny conversations that need to hammered out between you and the party responsible for why this content needs to be removed. You cannot feign ignorance and not be able to compartmentalize things. You can't say on one hand, "I understand" and then on the other hand "I don't understand.". You clearly understand why these things are extremely problematic. You're having a hard time coming to grips that something you love can be extremely problematic. Therefore, you cannot pass the buck to those who have a problem with it or could potentially have a problem with it. Your issue is with WWE, WCW, ECW, or whatever promotions appear on the WWE network or Peacock. It is what it is. It has to go. Does everything on the streaming service have to go? No and that has never been my point. I pay the same subscription price as everyone else. I don't have some fear everything is going to be gone. You wanna know why? Because my race is not something I see as a laughing matter. Hence, THIS entire discussion. Hell, if you implied that you were cool with blackface, you'd be in HR quicker than a hiccup. And you sound completely silly saying, "Well I would be in agreement with the truth BUT I don't like the tone and delivery." That's absolutely moronic on your part. That's why issues on race continue to persist. If you refuse to listen and hear people out, your own personal problems with race will never go away. You cannot say something racist, double down, and be confused that the affected parties are mad. That's insane. Also this thread doesn't have to be closed because you're too immature or unlearned to have that conversation. If you wanna disqualify yourself, be my guest. No one is holding you hostage. Your idiocy maybe, but no one else is.

“Preserving wrestling history” is about the dumbest excuse for people to use to defend their opinion on why NBC shouldn’t be doing this, too.

The last 15 minutes of my life have been me living that Vince McMahon passing out gif

And oh...speaking of questionable content. I happened to be watching No Mercy 1999 (the UK one from May before Over the Edge) a few days ago. During the makeshift bout between Tori and Nicole Bass, Jim Ross refers to Nicole as a shemale not once but TWICE after the match to the point where JERRY FUCKING LAWLER is aghast and taken aback. And it had nothing to do with anything. He just said it in the context of nothing. You can remove stuff like that because it has NO PLACE on any network.

This, in a nutshell, is why trying to have a reasonable discussion on these topics is a waste of time.

Listen I think there's a rational middle ground between the two sides represented here. Black face is highly offensive and I agree with Piper vs Brown & the DX / Nation segment being scrubbed. Vince dropping the N word as well. But Niners is going further down the path of what if and I don't think that makes him a bad person wondering out loud. We all agree black face has no place being celebrated. But then all the Goldust segments were mentioned. Nicole Bass. Bra & Panties matches. Overly bloody matches. Steph drugged and married. I don't find Eugene and George Steel stuff very tasteful at all in hindsight. If we start taking entire chunks of things off the network based on the past offending people in the present it starts getting pretty incomplete. If we scrub Goldust and Eugene and George Steel & attitude era women & massive blade job matches from history... well there goes WM3 Savage v Steamboat classic, almost all of Flair's amazing catalog, the majority of Trish Stratus' career among a bunchhhhhh of others. At a certain point it gets to be the more level headed sophisticated answer is do what Disney & Warner Brothers do. Put content warnings on there. Say hey this was different era and there's some unsavory things but we're keeping it in here and letting you decide what stuff you want to watch with the proper historical context. Changing and erasing the past doesn't fix our mistakes in the present. (And just for the record I fucking hate the term cancel culture. There's no such thing as cancel culture. It's literally just society weeding out the shit bags. If you don't want to get "canceled" don't do vile disgusting shit. Pretty simple way to live life.)

Unreal. What a guy.

If you take away sexism, racism, homophobia and xenophobia from wrestling, all you gave left is the fake violence.

Because... --- Entrance aside, this is great because it has the old school tunnel pre-entrance, and Vince on commentary. Say what you want, but "getting his ass kicked weekly" Vince on commentary (booking too) is my favorite and I love this "throw it to the wall and see what sticks" era of WWF.

I don't know what the best part is. The giant leather fanny pack? The Zubaz? The tank top tucked into shorts? The Nokia phone on a pocket clip? It's impossible to say.

This is actually a very good point. This isn't a movie from 1966. This was Vince McMahon in 2005. Fucking yikes lol. Thank you for putting that in the right context.

I like Big E even more now.

Niners thinking out loud saying hey they started editing A, wondering if this means they will edit B, C, D, & E now too does not make him a bad person. Write as many paragraphs as you feel necessary. But he isn't saying anything vile or hurtful by wondering if the flood gates are open now and they will edit everything, since the process has begun. Any instances of slurs should be edited out of commentary. The Nicole Bass quote of JR's you mentioned is disgusting. Erase the audio. The problematic part is the slur. So my point is let's not erase whole segments and matches. Does cutting Nicole Bass' existence out of WWE history help anything? No. Just cut the shitty thing JR says. Same with Goldust. But are you of the opinion that the entire Goldust character should be erased from existence, just because there were a lot of unsavory issues with it? Because once you start down that path you realize that's all pro wrestling in The United States has been for 30 years. Capitalizing on the shittiest segment of society with stories and characters designed to piss people off enough to pay money to see the resolution. Once you start down that track, what is the point of the network? Who wants 15 minute Raws from 1999? Who wants PPVs with 6 matches edited out? Taking them out doesn't erase it from history. Pretending it didn't happen doesn't make it so. Wrestling has done some fucking shittyyyyy things. But that's true about every aspect of society in a time period. Put content warnings on in. Have a sit down PSA before you play that event. Film someone eloquent like Titus explaining why things are the way they were for Goldust (just using him as an example). "In 1995 being gay was seen differently. In the 90s people wrongly judge based on your orientation. That's why Goldust's opponents acted the way they did in the following event. In 2021 we know how wrong that is. But in media in the 90s this was seen as okay. We've come a long way, but still have a ways to go to be a well rounded inclusive society. For more info go to yada yada yada" Wouldn't that be more helpful? Doesn't solidifying why something is wrong help us learn from it?? Especially vs just trying to pretend it didn't ever happen in the first place?

They've reach a point in growth where it's no longer feasible as a for profit company to continue to alienate people. And it's easy to say, "oh hey, people have the right to do XYZ." However, that's easy to say when you're not the affected party. It isn't a problem until it hits home for you. And the blackface thing definitely hits home for me as a black man of my age. Do I believe there are black folks who would be fine with it? Sure, but that's not something that's up for discussion. This isn't a situation of a do something and then ask for permission later or ask who's cool with it after the fact. You know what's a bad thing for a company like WWE? Blatantly disrespecting people like me and those who come from the same background as me who have disposable income. If you want to just do whatever you want, don't enter the market space. It's that simple. And if WWE can understand after so many years (I'm not sure if they FULLY understand, but hey some might say they do), why is it that hard for fans to understand? And it's not like they're forcing you to put your CC or debit card number in to subscribe. I think people are being irresponsible for lumping in the blackface in with blading or just general swearing or certain violent acts. I can buy examples in the latter where that can be an inconvenience to see it modified. However, if there are multiple instances of the former or things in the same vain as the former, then it's no longer an inconvenience. Cause you know what's more than an inconvenience? Racism. So I think the WWE right now at this point with all the money they're going to make in the future is fine with trading off those who are cool with it for those who aren't cool with it.

I just call it "having some goddam respect for people who are different from you," myself. Maybe that's too many words for a campaign slogan or angry hashtag, however.

I really shouldn't be shocked that some wrestling fans are outraged that NBC is censoring/removing racist bullshit from WWE's past, but here we are. The same people probably think "cancel culture" has run amok or something equally stupid as well.

After episode 2,i'm fully behind the Flag Smashers! Hell yeah, a world without borders sounds great! Not letting the same small group of people control the planet sounds great. Maybe I misunderstood, but it sounded like they were bringing medicine to refugee camps? Great bunch of lads! Can't get a fix on John Walker yet, he seems like a relatively OK dude, I imagine we've only seen phase 1 of his origin so far though, maybe his pal Battlestar gets killed and that causes a snap. Is John Walker a super soldier at this point? If not, how the hell was he hanging with Morgenthau et al? Full disclosure, my knowledge of the systems of racial discrimination and oppression in the US is limited to what I've read rather than anything I've experienced. But I really like that a Marvel property is tackling some of that, even if it's in subtle ways. I mean, that's what Stan Lee was all about, he wrote characters for the oppressed, so that's my favourite aspect of the show so far. The treatment of Isaiah in comparison to Steve Rogers is so stark. Follow that with the cops going full, "calm down sir" as they finger their guns at Sam, oof!

On the 11th episode of Dynamite back in November 2019, Silver and Reynolds were both punked out in about 45 seconds combined by Jon Moxley. Now Silver is one of the most over acts in the company and main evented their TV show against one of their top stars. Good for him.

What the fuck does this have to do with Roddy Piper wearing blackface? Second, you're the same dude who said something to the effect that people should be able find videos anywhere of any quality. I'm pretty sure you can find some third hand copy of Black Bart and Manny Fernandez having a shitty bloodbath that's been on the internet since 2004. Again, you can have that without you know...the over the top racism which definitely needs to be removed. The fuck is wrong with y'all?

Do we really need to go back to the screen turning black and white when someone bled or Austin's fingers being blurred? i wouldn't sign up for a movie channel streamer if they showed me the cable edit. i wouldn't sign up for Apple music if they gave me nothing but radio edits. A disclaimer is enough. There's already been discussion of them removing violence.. This board had high praise for Thunder Rosa vs. Dr. Britt. That was on cable with a TV-14 attached. That's all there needs to be. A pay service doesn't need to be telling the consumer what they shouldn't see. i don't want to see Piper vs. Brown. i don't want to see McMahon being a racist. My point is it opens the door for them to remove Starrcade '87.

1. We should listen to people who can or do get hurt by these things, seek their opinions, respect their opinions. 2. When possible, I believe in contextualization. If you're going to leave something, don't just leave it there without contextualizing it. Provide explanation and resources. If it is necessary to remove something, it's not enough to just remove it. Remove and offer context in its place or attached to it. 3. I know personally, I am impacted differently by things that happened before I was born (and I'd say especially before I had hit adolescence) and after, but that's just me. But it's all probably on a case-by-case basis relative to #1 above.

I know what offends me, but that isn't the issue. The issue is where does the line get drawn? Do we eliminate all footage of Gorgeous George, even though that was late 1940s-1950s TV. By all means, without context his gimmick is offensive as hell. Where will people stand on Adrian Street's character (semi-effeminate ass-kicker)? I don't honestly know where the line should be, but I do know portraying a black man of Nigerian descent wandering around with a spear is about as offensive as anything I've seen on television in the last decade.

Sweet tap-dancing Jeebus! How is this shit even possible in 2021? That's like something out of a 1940s Warner Bros. cartoon. Does VKM really think that modern day Nigerians walk around carrying spears? I tuned out of WWE about the time of the first Saudi tour, so I had no idea that this shit was going on. I know Crews likes getting a paycheck, but this is just beyond awful.

I don't think Niners is a bad person and I get the idea of a slippery slope happening when it comes to editing. But I'd rather that we not discuss B though Z and still focus on editing A because it runs the risk of losing the point of what's initially discussed. The other thing too is that this is all WAY too early to tell how they're going to do things so I think we may need to pump the brakes and see how things play out.

You mention Vince's constant claims of "taking wrestling from the smoke filled gyms" and whatever his bullshit narrative is for making it mainstream, but Vince's mentality never left those places. Not in the 80s. Not in the 90s. Not today. Vince has always conducted himself just as the carny 60s and 70s scumbags he learned from taught him. Wrestlers are no better than racehorses; meat to be drugged up to perform and then used up and discarded. Your customers are rubes just waiting to be separated from their last dollar and eager to be told what they should like. Nothing that could possibly make a dollar will ever be a bad thing. There are no distasteful angles because you're already in the garbage business, pal. If you're not white, that's your gimmick. Even in a "women's revolution," the big titty blonde is always your best bet. And so on. It's not going to end until he's in the grave. Shit, this is a guy who put in extra hard rings because his media partner told him they look better on TV. It's amazing. We have a publicly-traded multinational entertainment company, whose content is purchased and distributed by media giants, and it's run by a guy whose approach to his business never grew past 1960.

1) Wrestling doesn't have to be low-brow. There is a safe middle between Downton Abbey and pro wrestling. It's clear wrestling fans internalize all the scrutiny and project it out as a way to process it. You don't have to do that. 2) That's a false dilemma though cause it's not like 99% of wrestling history is Vince doing the "I took wrestling out of smoky gymnasiums and put it in arenas and packed stadiums". Even with that, I was discussing how this dude was doing NATIONAL television from a high school gym in the mid 90s just two weeks ago. That's not something that's considered a memory but it took me all of like five seconds to look up. The internet age has allowed us to be proactive to the point where shit that should NOT be brought back up is now almost pop culture fodder. We're all talking about stuff that happened relatively recent. It didn't happen a century ago. It didn't even happen sixty or seventy years ago. If it happened in the last thirty or forty years, people remember it. Shit, this board is proof people remember the most useless shit NO ONE should remember. So it's not going to get erased. Like at all. Hell, the problem now is actually trying to erase it.

For Jefferson Starship to ignore things when a billionaire is trying to throw them a bone is like the most Starship thing ever. What a bunch of absolute tools. To think that abortion of a group has its roots in Jefferson Airplane boggles the mind. Take that city that you babble about in that awful song and put it where the sun don't shine.

I mean, moral reprehensibility should be the fault of the viewer. I mean I wrote some morally reprehensible things about Mima Shimoda in a sweater, but that is my problem, not GAEA's. They were presenting a wrestling match that I happened to inject my own pathetic observations. WWE brought the moral reprehensibilty under the guise of a wrestling match.

The WWE has always been scummy and horrible. Why celebrate their attempt to cover it up?

Because everything after that is irrelevant. Extremely irrelevant. Once you say some stupid and vile bullshit, there is NOTHING you can say to justify it. You don't get to pick and choose what you believe you should not be censored when what's being censored affects A LOT of people. I don't care if you feel your pretend wrestling is under attack. Do they not teach social science classes where you're from? How hard is it to realize what you said is not only dumb but dangerous and problematic? Moreover, I believe this is what you call a false dilemma. It should not cross your mind that removing racism is in essence removing vital content or controlling something. In actuality, it's content (if you can call it that) that should have never been there in the first place. Same with other hideous and insidious things that's insurrected with pro wrestling at times. Plus, knowing that, you knew that's a fight pro wrestling was never going to win because it's done that to itself. No outside party told wrestling promoters to do those things. You made that bed, and now you got to lie in it. For wrestling fans to feel their precious baby is being attacked, it's absolutely absurd. No one is trying to take pro wrestling from you. More importantly, if you can't see why those things should be removed promptly, there is a WHOLE LOT of personal growth you have to do. You should probably get to work on that.

I love this "Hangman just keeps winning, and destroying jobbers while we kill time before he makes his big main event run at Omega." No losing streak bullshit, they know they want him to eventually be a challenger (possibly the guy who gets the win), they know know it's too early, so they just let him go out there and beat guys clean in the middle of the ring, usually with his finisher, sometimes with his secondary finisher. It's brilliant. This show was loaded with great promos as well. MJF, Britt, Mox and Kingston, even Omega was really on. Sometimes the week to week booking gets off track or weird, but the overall long term stuff seems to almost always be on point. The people who should win usually win. There's like a dozen matches they've teased and I'm down for nearly all of them.

i don't believe they should censor the Piper racist shit because that opens the door for more edits. it was bad enough with the music rights issues. Next will be language and then blood etc... if i'm paying you $9.99 a month i should be able to decide if something is too much for me. i've been a subscriber since day 1 but if this is how they will be handling it then i'm out. The current stuff isn't good enough.

Let me put you up on game my friend...black people don't look forward to racism. Second, you can't speak for his grandchildren and their concerns. You don't even know if he had grandchildren. Hell, if he had children that HAD children, they wouldn't want anything to do with the wrestling business. Matter of fact, if that's the best thing he was associated with his career (and it wasn't THANK GOD), that would be a sad note for his family to see. I am not even going to touch how silly it is that people cannot track down anything beyond one source in 2021. Bad News Brown died how many years ago? I'm pretty sure they saw it already and in no hurry to see it again if they do exist. That's not a question you wanna be asking my friend. No one is asking heels to not be heels. We're asking folks to not be irredeemable pieces of shit in the process. And Piper wasn't even a heel. He was the babyface in that feud. So apparently, you need to be tracking down Piper vs. Bad News and not BNB's imaginary grandkids you have sympathy for cause they cannot have a traumatic racial experience.

Yep, making sound and rational arguments. Not really. I used to work for Walmart Corporate on the .com ecommerce side and just started working for JB Hunt corporate. If I came in here and said "mmmkay businesses are bad", I would have absolutely no leg to stand on. That's not my bag. However, I will call out shit that I know is incredibly abhorrent. That's not giving myself an out. That's understanding how businesses operate and knowing how the machine runs. Moreover, it has nothing to do with removing this or that when you can do one thing and not affect everything else. It only comes off as forceful because you have no way to defend yourself. It's a natural defense mechanism. No matter how hard you try, you cannot make it right. Internally, if that makes you feel funny and not know how to react, that's probably when you break out the notebook and start taking notes. Like I said, I had my own learning experiences here. Shit, you live and you learn. This sounds exactly like, "I can't believe black people can control the N word and get to say it too!". Goddamn buddy, I hate when marginalized groups get to have a little power too!

Apparently not because you're not understanding some very simple things. You don't get to tell people when they should go all the way OR even judge if it is going all the way. Hell, I will even use my self for example. One of the few admitted slip ups I had (and I probably wouldn't call it a slip up as much as a learning experience) is when we were discussing a Walter Hill movie (The Assignment w/ Michelle Rodriguez and god knows who else was in it....Sigourney Weaver maybe?) a few years ago. There was controversy about Michelle Rodriguez playing a transman (sorry if my terminology isn't correct my bad). I know someone had a major issue with it and I think there was a boycott, and my reply was something to the effect of "Man, I don't even see why someone would be mad at this. Hell, I didn't know the movie had already been out. You should probably direct your energy elsewhere on something bigger." This in turn pissed off Dolfan and we had a little misunderstanding that was quickly resolved. However, with the benefit of hindsight, I shoulder the blame for that misunderstanding because I didn't have the proper context of what people were mad about and the controversy. Again, it was a movie that completely flew under the radar. That doesn't change that I had a faux pas. It wasn't my place to say don't pick and choose your battles. Not when I am not on that side. Second, I can be mad about racism and still understand WWE and NBC are running a business. I understand what comes with that. I also understand what comes with being a customer. If I am a big time customer for a certain t-shirt website and they have to remove certain t-shirt designs for inappropriate material or even anything that can be construed as that, I am not going to be pissed that they had to do that. I am also not going to draw conclusions that this could put their whole business and my enjoyment of it in jeopardy. What's going to happen is what's going to happen. That's out of my power. It's on them if they didn't do their due diligence. Well yes cause my whole point is you're smart enough to compartmentalize those things. Or hopefully you are. You can do that and figure out getting rid of certain things weren't infringe on your entertainment. If it is, that's probably something you need to resolve within yourself. And as for what Dean said and what you said about erasing things...the point isn't to erase anything. The point is to call out and say that this doesn't belong in our society or any form of entertainment. And as much as I love DEAN, I can say what he said is completely off base. Just because something is scummy doesn't warrant any excuses of the behavior since it's just so far at one end of spectrum it's ridiculous. Not when your fanbase is SUPPOSEDLY extremely diverse. It's not gonna fly. Because WWE (and wrestling in general) has been outlaw territory, it's become normalized to the point where people don't even feel anything anymore. And that itself is a huge problem because it's only reflective of a toxic fanbase. I am in favor of improving it so we don't have to go through shit like this anymore, and people can learn from it. It seems like people refuse to learn. Now you have the fact that NBC brought in the brutal and nasty reality check in the form of swift censorship. To steal a phrase from the great KRS-ONE, "YOU....MUST...LEARN."

If you really want to stick it to them, you should contact NBC's parent company, the Sheinhardt Wig Corporation.

i agree with you.. From the reaction of others on the board i realized that my comment about wanting them to not edit out content was offensive. My belief or 'fear' was that NBC would go the WWE 2009 TV-PG route and start editing out bloody brawls etc.. But that was a shortsighted take on the matter. Had nothing to do with 'cancel culture' as @Casey brought up.. Many things and people deserved to be cancelled.

Adrian Street. Before he was Exotic.

It's 2021 and they have a black man faking a Nigerian accent (I know he's of Nigerian descent but he does not have an accent) and walking around with a spear. I asked about it here (because I don't watch WWE) and someone made a decent explanation/defense of it but still, come on. Promoters of a certain age (*cough cough* Vince *cough cough*) will always approach characterization from a point of view that if you're non-white, then that's your gimmick.

If only there were other pro wrestling promotions we could follow and support and spend money on. Promotions not run by hateful assholes. Maybe some day...

I know, look how he was jobbed out by the noted shooter John Wilkes Booth.