The AEW Brawl & Its Fallout

[Super Ape]

17 hours ago, Technico Support said:

The state of wrestling "news" is a microcosm for today's news in general.  Some dude speculated something, and then questionable newz sites created articles out of whole cloth and advertised them with gotcha headlines?  Sounds about right.

I read one of these "Bucks put out feelers to WWE" stories yesterday and and was literally three paragraphs of absolute bullshit.  I was frankly impressed by the writer's ability to write so much and say so little.  It's a talent, I guess.

Reminder that wrestling news writers are “journalists” the same way that mall security guards are “cops.”

[just drew]

14 hours ago, odessasteps said:

And we only need 1 person to post 1 Sasha boo boo face to get the point.

I was assured that it's okay when she does it, because she's the one doing it.

Anyway, yeah, this shit is wild, yeah? You think we'll ever get a concrete answer on how long the suspensions are?

[SprintingFromAmerica]

Tbh it's not like journalistic standards aren't in the gutter across the board.

But look The Bucks have a lot of friends. Kevin Nash has been pretty clear he's talked to The Bucks. They don't have to put out any official feelers to anyone.

[Log]

Randoms thoughts...

I was thinking about how Punk was really the first guy from the "modern" era of independent wrestling (post-WCW/ECW) to really make it. But, in that time period, making it was strictly WWE. He had to claw his way up, and ultimately, get the company to bend to him in order to find success. It didn't last, but he made an impression for sure.

The Bucks and Omega came a few years later, but "made it" in totally different ways. Omega, by going to Japan and making his name and the Bucks, through branding and merchandise. Then, instead of heading to WWE to finally make the big time, they started their own...uh...big time.

Some might see the Bucks/Omega way as "easier". I don't mean that they didn't work their asses off. I just mean that they didn't have to fight against the current as much as Punk did. Instead of fighting their way down someone else's path, they made their own.

I don't know how this ties into their problems with each other. Maybe it's just as simple as the surface "you told people things about me that I don't like" conflict it seems to be. It's just sort of interesting that all parties involved are probably the guys who came up in the independents and have made the biggest waves in the ways that business is done in wrestling.

[John from Cincinnati]

News may be coming. NEWS~! MAYBE~!

 

[Technico Support]

It’s just amazing to me that Punk, who was always seen as anti-establishment, Indy first, DIY, blah blah blah, has become the same old carny shithead we’ve always seen throughout the history of wrestling, right down to the stupid belief that you haven’t done shit in this business unless you’ve made it in New York.  Who in the mid 2000s, watching Punk on the indies, would have been able to call that?  Who would have figured Punk for a “pull up the ladder” type?  Shit’s wild.

 

[Casey]

11 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

News may be coming. NEWS~! MAYBE~!

 

Bulletpoints from PWInsider: Pat Buck isn't suspended now, Christopher Daniels is doing shows for All Japan this week, and Omega is in Japan (on his own, not the company's time, per an "AEW source") promoting the AEW video game at the Tokyo Game Show and also hanging out with Nakazawa and Kota Ibushi. The Young Bucks aren't in Albany tonight, and Punk had triceps surgery and is recovering.

[Matt D]

1 hour ago, Technico Support said:

It’s just amazing to me that Punk, who was always seen as anti-establishment, Indy first, DIY, blah blah blah, has become the same old carny shithead we’ve always seen throughout the history of wrestling, right down to the stupid belief that you haven’t done shit in this business unless you’ve made it in New York.  Who in the mid 2000s, watching Punk on the indies, would have been able to call that?  Who would have figured Punk for a “pull up the ladder” type?  Shit’s wild.

 

I struggle with this a little, because I'm of the opinion (and have been for a number of months, long before this all started but shortly after i saw Page for the first time) that Page can't actually put together a good, coherent match. But you can't deny he was successful even without that skill. But he probably could have been even more successful with it? Or maybe if he tried to change the formula, he'd crash and burn, so why mess with what's working? He doesn't give a shit whether I think he's a good wrestler or not, and nor should he. 

I imagine that Punk would take less of a harsh view on things than I do, because i realize I'm kind of out here on an island it's specifically with Page. I don't feel this way about anyone else in the company, including the Bucks and Omega (Well, Takeshita's kind of problematic too depending on who he's wrestling).

So if he watched the matches and went to Page and tried to help teach him how to put together a more coherent match and Page blew him off over it, I don't know. I think he's an asshole for lots of reasons, but I can get why that would be frustrating in the very specific. I'm a guy with no stake in this, and I think Page is the shits and would have been so much better off if someone helped him structure his stuff years ago instead of falling into success or working hard instead of smart to get there.

To me, it's not about "New York" or going through the NXT system and sparring with Terry Taylor about how a match should be put together. It's about "Were you even trained?" That's how problematic I think Page is. But I can't speak for Punk (nor would I want to), if that's where he's coming from. But i kind of sympathize in this one way and I don't see it as a "pulling up the ladder" sort of thing.

Look at Punk's matches in 2021-22: Darby, Hobbs, Garcia, Sydal, Fish, Kingston, Marshall, Moriarty, Wardlow/Spears/MJF, FTR, Dax, Max Caster, Penta, Silver, Page, Caster/Gunn Club.

He worked a sort of Bret Hart vs Randy Savage SNME match with Garcia fairly early in both his run and Garcia's run on the main shows that did nothing but help Garcia. One aspect of the whole story with MJF was that he was taking too long to finish off his opponents because he was giving them a ton of shine and a ton of the match as he was wrestling them. That Moriarty match was during that bit and he gave Moriarty a ton in that match, way too much even, to the point where it was becoming almost uncomfortable.

I'm certainly not going to defend the press conference or the paranoia or the Colt comments or the backstage fight. But I don't see the pulling up the ladder bit either.

[Technico Support]

Hey @Matt D thanks for the feedback but I should have specified that I wasn’t referring to Punk’s criticism of Page’s supposed “I don’t listen to advice” comments.  

What I was writing about was his seeming criticism of all non-WWE guys in AEW that they “hadn’t done shit in the business.”  You can have a lot of valid criticism about Omega, the Bucks, and Page, but there’s no way you can legitimately say they haven’t been anywhere and have done nothing.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Technico Support

[Matt D]

1 minute ago, Technico Support said:

Hey @Matt D thanks for the feedback but I should have specified that I wasn’t referring to Punk’s criticism of Page’s supposed “I don’t listen to advice” comments.  

What I was writing about was his seeming criticism of all non-WWE guys in AEW that they “hadn’t done shit in the business.”  You can have a lot of valid criticism about Omega, the Bucks, and Page, but there’s no way you can legitimately say they haven’t been anywhere and done anything.  

Got it. I went back to the transcript because I didn't want to throw about a bunch of other words (I would have actually ended up with the "manage a target" bit which is extraneous here) without seeing exactly what he said. And that specific comment on hadn't doing shit is again talking very specifically about Page. I'm certainly not going to defend that as maybe you shouldn't say that in a public setting about the guy you won the World Title from? But I still see it very tightly targeted to Page and not necessarily about anyone else (he had different gripes about different people, like the aforementioned target line). And there's probably a lot to unpack there. Let me put it this way: Page could have been a former Intercontinental champion, and I imagine Punk would have said the same thing in the same way. I could be wrong, of course.

[(BP)]

I still think that someone on Orange Cassidy or Jungle Boy’s level dismissed some of Punk’s advice, and that Punk decided the Elite must be poisoning the younger talent in the locker room against him instead of realizing that perhaps he was rubbing people the wrong way. 

[Technico Support]

@Matt D  Ah, you’re right.  I was thinking of “I’m tired of wrestling these kids who think they know everything” and I conflated the two in my head.  While I think this quote confers the same “I’m a star and these guys ain’t shit” vibe, you’re exactly right that the other quote was specifically about Page.

Edited September 14, 2022 by Technico Support

[zendragon]

10 hours ago, Log said:

Randoms thoughts...

I was thinking about how Punk was really the first guy from the "modern" era of independent wrestling (post-WCW/ECW) to really make it. But, in that time period, making it was strictly WWE. He had to claw his way up, and ultimately, get the company to bend to him in order to find success. It didn't last, but he made an impression for sure.

The Bucks and Omega came a few years later, but "made it" in totally different ways. Omega, by going to Japan and making his name and the Bucks, through branding and merchandise. Then, instead of heading to WWE to finally make the big time, they started their own...uh...big time.

Some might see the Bucks/Omega way as "easier". I don't mean that they didn't work their asses off. I just mean that they didn't have to fight against the current as much as Punk did. Instead of fighting their way down someone else's path, they made their own.

I don't know how this ties into their problems with each other. Maybe it's just as simple as the surface "you told people things about me that I don't like" conflict it seems to be. It's just sort of interesting that all parties involved are probably the guys who came up in the independents and have made the biggest waves in the ways that business is done in wrestling.

I was thinking about this Bucks/Kenny made their own success outside the system where as Punk and Bryan had to make the system accomidate them

[AxB]

Did they MAKE the system accommodate them? Or did they wait until the system chose to accommodate them?

[Log]

2 hours ago, AxB said:

Did they MAKE the system accommodate them? Or did they wait until the system chose to accommodate them?

I'd say they (particularly Danielson) dragged the company kicking and screaming into accommodating them.

[Casey]

Voices of Wrestling put out a podcast or something today where they say a source backstage told them that at the 8/24 talent meeting (this is the show where Punk lost to Moxley in 3 minutes) that Omega told the locker room he wouldn't hire 8 out of 10 of them if hiring was up to him.

Tony Khan was present at the meeting, as it's been reported already, and this was either before or after the Young Bucks told everyone that their door is always open - lol.

EDIT: Also, another source told them that CM Punk isn't a cancer to the locker room. Unrelated, but it should be noted that in July, Ricky Starks gave an interview and was talking about how the locker room misses him.

I imagine when someone like Sapp or whoever reports that "the majority see him as a cancer backstage", it's probably a really small sample size. I doubt he polled everyone employed by AEW on whether or not they think he's good or bad for the backstage environment.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Casey

[FourPostMassacre]

23 hours ago, Technico Support said:

It’s just amazing to me that Punk, who was always seen as anti-establishment, Indy first, DIY, blah blah blah, has become the same old carny shithead we’ve always seen throughout the history of wrestling, right down to the stupid belief that you haven’t done shit in this business unless you’ve made it in New York.  Who in the mid 2000s, watching Punk on the indies, would have been able to call that?  Who would have figured Punk for a “pull up the ladder” type?  Shit’s wild.

 

Fuck this guy. Tried to go to UFC so he could get a Brock deal out of WWE. Did so well there he managed to get an appearance on “The Bump” out of it. 
Now he thinks he’s Undertaker Jr. backstage in AEW. Why would I take advice from a guy who did a top rope elbow for like a decade plus that only got worse every time he tried it?

[Firebreaker Chip]

He's over and his matches are good

[Casey]

There's so much wrong with that.

He went to UFC because Dana White and Lorenzo Fertitta wanted him. They courted him, both personally flew out to Chicago and took him to business dinners. I'm sure it's something Punk wanted, but he didn't seek it out. They wanted him on PPV cards because he was a name that still had the interest of the public. All of this is in the Observer Yearbook for 2014.

He didn't get a spot on The Bump. That's a YouTube show that debuted, what, three years ago? He was on WWE Backstage, a FOX show, with a FOX contract, not a WWE contract. He wanted to angle that FOX contract into doing other sports related talking head gigs. And it's not like he didn't absolutely slam some of the things that aired on RAW or Smackdown, because if you actually watched that show - he did, and harshly at times. That's what FOX executives wanted out of him (and it should be noted, like the UFC - FOX executives courted HIM, not the reverse).

[John from Cincinnati]

And WWE also made overtures to Punk prior to his AEW run. If he wanted to put up with their bullshit, he probably could have gotten a sweetheart Brock deal. Had nothing to do with his UFC stint. 

Edited September 15, 2022 by John from Cincinnati

[Guest]

Couple month's later they all show up as friends in a new nWo style faction but as evil happy to be here wrestlers.

9D chess.

[NikoBaltimore]

1 hour ago, Casey said:

Voices of Wrestling put out a podcast or something today where they say a source backstage told them that at the 8/24 talent meeting (this is the show where Punk lost to Moxley in 3 minutes) that Omega told the locker room he wouldn't hire 8 out of 10 of them if hiring was up to him.

I might need a bit more context on this one because I don't care to talk about Punk.  But was this expanded to say if that was Kenny's first impressions about talent and he was proven wrong?  Or was that meant that he still feels that way and he's baffled that they're still there.  Either way I would be curious to see who would have been the ones he would have hired if he had his way.

[Dog]

On 9/14/2022 at 1:26 PM, Technico Support said:

It’s just amazing to me that Punk, who was always seen as anti-establishment, Indy first, DIY, blah blah blah, has become the same old carny shithead we’ve always seen throughout the history of wrestling, right down to the stupid belief that you haven’t done shit in this business unless you’ve made it in New York.  Who in the mid 2000s, watching Punk on the indies, would have been able to call that?

Pretty much anyone who knew Punk IRL from that time, even a little bit, could have seen it coming.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Dog

[Casey]

4 minutes ago, NikoBaltimore said:

I might need a bit more context on this one because I don't care to talk about Punk.  But was this expanded to say if that was Kenny's first impressions about talent and he was proven wrong?  Or was that meant that he still feels that way and he's baffled that they're still there.  Either way I would be curious to see who would have been the ones he would have hired if he had his way.

Not a clue, you know how wrestling journalism and fandom are. The quote is clipped out of a longer form podcast, and all that's heard is that Omega supposedly said that line.

I remember reading something from that week, when the meeting happened, that Omega was giving out "tough love" but it wasn't expanded upon at the time.

EDIT: My own personal theory, IF this is true, is that the Elite probably aren't happy about all of the "ex WWE" talent and people that aren't friends of friends. That first year of AEW seems like what they wanted the company to be, just a big group of friends doing their shit while funded by a billionaire.

Edited September 15, 2022 by Casey

[Log]

12 minutes ago, Dog said:

Pretty much anyone who knew Punk IRL from that time, even a little bit, could have seen it coming.

God, I hate myself for doing this kind of online psychiatrist bullshit, but here I go. Punk strikes me as more of a "I'll show these fuckers!"-motivated guy rather than straight-up ambitious. Agree?