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Dynamite - 9/7/2022


Dolfan in NYC
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9 hours ago, The Natural said:

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Forgot to mention Bryan Danielson bringing back the jumping Jack's from the first two matches of the Page/Danielson trilogy. Great callback!

I find the endings building off of each other was a nice touch to the trilogy. 

1. Hangman hit Buckshot Lariat for a clear ended but time runs out.

2. Hangman wins with Buckshot Lariat.

3. Hangman loses by a reversed Buckshot Lariat.

Showing that Hangman may be passionate and as a character needs to go to the same well. And likely as a performer too. Against Dragon, that’ll cost you.

To @Matt D’s point, with an all timer like Danielson, Omega, etc they can play off it and break the chain of combo offense. Omega excellently using his knee strike (if I recall correctly, apologies if I’m getting the specifics worng, but I can post a gif later) to stop Hangman spinning strike was exciting and plays off different than if a similar reversal happened to someone else. 
Watching Hangman can be like watching Soul Caliber. Very combo based and generally the same combos. But I like analogies so I’ll throw another one out. Maybe Hangman is Thrash Metal? Entirely power with and constant speed, but not quite running. Obviously the visual doesn’t match, but I interpret Page in a similar way to enjoying Slayer. 
Obviously, I don’t care if other people like him or not. His genre of wrestling is outside the norm of traditional wrestling theory. I think his matches have an interesting voice as an artist and I have more fun dissecting the choices in his matches. He’s in the Omega camp of matches being a part of a larger story. The first two in the trilogy was the whole story (along with great Danielson beating down the Dark Order matches) and this third one was very much in his own head of the failure of the previous trios match. His character’s self esteem issues could be annoying on a lot of you but I’m still captivated by that part of his character.

It’s funny because he isn’t one of my guys and not my style of wrestling I generally enjoy. But he’s in the both Under and Over rated camp for me. Olive Garden?

This isn’t to deter difference of opinion or match/character theory criticism or even praise, those are my favorite posts to read. Even if I don’t agree with them, have well expressed thoughts is riveting and a total joy.

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13 minutes ago, Octopus said:

His character’s self esteem issues could be annoying on a lot of you but I’m still captivated by that part of his character.

My argument is that he still can play all of those emotional beats but still remain in more conventional structures which creates a shared consistency of meaning, impact, and resonance across the entirety of the program and what everyone else on the roster is doing for the sake of the show as a whole. He could build upon what came before him to bring everyone and everything up to a higher place instead of just tossing it aside and only focusing on the bits he cares about. The emotional beats aren't the issue! The longform storytelling isn't the issue. Those are hypothetically good and even great things. They're potentially wonderful and can drive the medium forward. Just synthesize them into the inherent strengths of pro wrestling norms, tropes, and structures instead of making them stand on their own. Have them be part of the means to an overall greater end instead of the ends unto themselves. Like I said, if there wasn't a lot of good and interesting things to his matches and performances, I wouldn't care so much.

Edited by Matt D
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On 9/9/2022 at 10:53 PM, southofheavy said:

I'll do ya one more and say that casting Jungle Boy and especially Sammy as two of the pillars did more harm than good. It was WAY too early to be throwing that term on them. Way I see it, neither one of them really merit it. Jungle Boy might get there.

Pillars need to stand on a strong foundation and I think it was wise to make Sammy, Darby, MJF and Jungle as the pillars.  Sammy had/has the benefit of being with Jericho and there's still hope in time he'll not be an asshat and get to the next level.  MJF's feud with Punk strengthened his chances of getting to the next level due to the layers they established during that time.  Darby has Sting and is young but he's always going to be somebody they can easily elevate when needed.  And Jungle had Christian for over a year and has become an overall better star for it.  He's much more confident talking and combined with the wrestling I'm confident his singles run is going to be aces.

So the tl;dr of it is the pillars are AEW's vision of who they see as their stars of the future.  By putting them with people from the past with a wealth of knowledge they all have come out of it stronger.  The only wildcard I see is MJF with the real life shit but if they can lock him in for 2024 then I can safely proclaim within a couple years they'll all be megastars.

Edited by NikoBaltimore
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11 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I'd kinda like to see Taz as the authority figure because I think having a stipulation that he can't make decisions on the ex Team Taz guys could be both a cool way of elevating those 3, but also possibly one of the few interesting things left to do with an authority figure.

But also I don't want to see another authority figure.

The last two authority figures I can remember actually liking where Teddy Long (face, actually ran the way some one would if it was a shoot however feuded a bit to much with JBL for my liking) and Dario from LU (even though heel authority figures are played out him being a blood thirsty psychopath running an underground fight club was a good bit of world building, and he really didn't get too involved in feuds just popped out of his office to demand more violence) but I'm with you with no more evil bosses 

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The only authority figure that ever made any sense to me was Jack Tunney. Fairly incompetent, slightly crooked, mostly impotent. Almost completely neutral.

If you have a strong face GM, you have to wonder how heels get away with anything other than basic cheating during the match. Any beat downs or locker room sneak attacks would have to lead to suspensions, because why wouldn't it? If they're strong and a face, they'd have to react harshly to be legitimate.

If you have an all out heel GM, you have to wonder how the faces could ever win when management is doing everything possible to screw with them. What big-time baby face could ever win a championship, or at least hold one for more than a night?

A face/heel GM is a storytelling nightmare in my opinion. Keep them dumb and neutral.

TUNNEY 2024!

 

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7 hours ago, mystman said:

The only authority figure that ever made any sense to me was Jack Tunney. Fairly incompetent, slightly crooked, mostly impotent. Almost completely neutral.

If you have a strong face GM, you have to wonder how heels get away with anything other than basic cheating during the match. Any beat downs or locker room sneak attacks would have to lead to suspensions, because why wouldn't it? If they're strong and a face, they'd have to react harshly to be legitimate.

If you have an all out heel GM, you have to wonder how the faces could ever win when management is doing everything possible to screw with them. What big-time baby face could ever win a championship, or at least hold one for more than a night?

A face/heel GM is a storytelling nightmare in my opinion. Keep them dumb and neutral.

TUNNEY 2024!

 

 

Dario's crooked but bloodthristy also worked well as a GM.  

 

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Yeah, "Our House" doesn't lead you to think they are actually a ska band

For those that don't know, that is ska music AKA the stuff that Sami Zayn likes

I still have a funny memory of a bitter old SHARP skinhead and Swedish hardcore purist at a show telling me ska was "circus music" 

Edited by Curt McGirt
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3 hours ago, Curt McGirt said:

Yeah, "Our House" doesn't lead you to think they are actually a ska band

For those that don't know, that is ska music AKA the stuff that Sami Zayn likes

I still have a funny memory of a bitter old SHARP skinhead and Swedish hardcore purist at a show telling me ska was "circus music" 

The 2 Tone era, and the aforementioned Madness, is second wave Ska. Is Zayn down with the 2 Tone crew or was he maybe more of a 90s third wave guy? 

I'm with Regal on 2 tone. I suspect we might also agree that the more popular Brit take doesn't hold a candle to the golden first wave. Which produced arguably the greatest band of all time - the Skatalites! Or at least the greatest (barely) 2 year run of any band. 

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Just now, HarryArchieGus said:

The 2 Tone era, and the aforementioned Madness, is second wave Ska. Is Zayn down with the 2 Tone crew or was he maybe more of a 90s third wave guy? 

I'm with Regal on 2 tone. I suspect we might also agree that the more popular Brit take doesn't hold a candle to the golden first wave. Which produced arguably the greatest band of all time - the Skatalites! Or at least the greatest (barely) 2 year run of any band. 

Sami is definitely a Third Wave guy but I don't doubt him enjoying the two tones too

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My friends that were into ska were practically fourth wave, liking skacore bands like Choking Victim and Leftover Crack. A bunch of them (I think the largest lineup was 11 members!) had a band named Alleyway Sex in that vein that were really good. Shame they never recorded more than a handful of songs.

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On 9/10/2022 at 10:30 AM, Octopus said:

I find the endings building off of each other was a nice touch to the trilogy. 

1. Hangman hit Buckshot Lariat for a clear ended but time runs out.

2. Hangman wins with Buckshot Lariat.

3. Hangman loses by a reversed Buckshot Lariat.

Showing that Hangman may be passionate and as a character needs to go to the same well. And likely as a performer too. Against Dragon, that’ll cost you.

To @Matt D’s point, with an all timer like Danielson, Omega, etc they can play off it and break the chain of combo offense. Omega excellently using his knee strike (if I recall correctly, apologies if I’m getting the specifics worng, but I can post a gif later) to stop Hangman spinning strike was exciting and plays off different than if a similar reversal happened to someone else. 
Watching Hangman can be like watching Soul Caliber. Very combo based and generally the same combos. But I like analogies so I’ll throw another one out. Maybe Hangman is Thrash Metal? Entirely power with and constant speed, but not quite running. Obviously the visual doesn’t match, but I interpret Page in a similar way to enjoying Slayer. 
Obviously, I don’t care if other people like him or not. His genre of wrestling is outside the norm of traditional wrestling theory. I think his matches have an interesting voice as an artist and I have more fun dissecting the choices in his matches. He’s in the Omega camp of matches being a part of a larger story. The first two in the trilogy was the whole story (along with great Danielson beating down the Dark Order matches) and this third one was very much in his own head of the failure of the previous trios match. His character’s self esteem issues could be annoying on a lot of you but I’m still captivated by that part of his character.

It’s funny because he isn’t one of my guys and not my style of wrestling I generally enjoy. But he’s in the both Under and Over rated camp for me. Olive Garden?

This isn’t to deter difference of opinion or match/character theory criticism or even praise, those are my favorite posts to read. Even if I don’t agree with them, have well expressed thoughts is riveting and a total joy.

 

As someone who has been a very good competitive Soul Calibur player, I am a bit offended here.   Calibur has more combo variety than most fighters due to walls, edges, and air control.  hangman is around 1.05 Talims of likability for me.

You can see HAngman's been under the learning tree of Kenny with how he structures his side of matches.  It's great for epics, not as great for weekly TV.

I'd argue that Kenny's stylings were much better in a leaner AEW pre-pandemic than in the current fat AEW we have now.

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12 hours ago, Dog said:

Dog Fashion Disco was kind of like "metal ska" when they first started.

Come on guys, I'm DESPERATELY trying to steer this conversation toward metal. Work with me.

How about a metal band that features a horn section and has a song that may or may not be about a certain fireball throwing wizard (to keep it on topic) would that satisy all of the comment section?

 

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