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NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 17.


The Natural

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I have not gotten a chance to watch the entire WK show yet...I'm not sure what the timeline is for spoilers but I'll put my initial thoughts in the spoiler box just in case there are others who are in the same position I'm in and didn't take the day off to watch the show:

Spoiler

I am starting to love how divisive Will Ospreay has become, or maybe has continued to be. I love a good paradox, and if you read a bunch of people's comments, he's simultaneously the best and worst wrestler in the world. It's fun to me that you can have seasoned, lifelong wrestling fans both on this board and elsewhere say that he carried the WK17 match with his selling, and then other seasoned fans say his selling is cartoonish, overblown, the guy is a clown...whatever. I'm not saying either side is wrong - it's just a fine example of "different strokes for different folks."

I continue to be in the middle. I thought Ospreay has gone overboard in his AEW appearances, but I was fine with him playing to the back of the Tokyo Dome here. Besides one or two big comebacks in this match, he slowed down considerably after the turnbuckle DDT, which he usually does not do to the extent that it was done here. 

As for the match itself - overall I loved it. While there was seemingly an element of risk not seen in an NJPW match since...well...probably the last time Kenny worked there, both guys still put on an epic that went counter to my expectations. Namely: I did not think that Ospreay and Omega were going to beat seven shades of hell out of each other. I expected a lot of big moves that should've led to three counts, but not legit swollen eyes, etc. I'm interested in seeing where this all goes from here.

Main event was fine. I'll probably have more to say on rewatch.

I liked the Jr. heavy 4-way, too. Those four guys have been very entertaining in the lead-up to this match. I still root for Despe and Hiromu both. Honestly, I didn't hate all of what Wato did in this match and he landed an utterly massive German suplex that got quite a response out of me. 

Okay. Maybe I'll post more once I watch the rest of the card and New Year Dash.

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Posted a lot already about WK17, so final thoughts after Dash and letting things settle.

Spoiler

I stand by I thought WK17 was a blast - to add to what Teflon Turtle said, I think NJPW itself is really divisive, especially on here. People like me who really enjoy the New Japan style loved it, those that don't hated it. But thats the beauty of pro wrestling is that we all enjoy things differently and the great thing about this board unlike Twitter or other forms is that the discussion is constructive and civil. My big 2023 wrestling ambition is to get out of my NJPW tribal mindset and watch more of other groups than I did in 2022. 

I wont touch much on Ospreay/Omega, enough has been said. I think the undercard may feel rushed but I thought both the Jr. Tag and Zack/Narita were really fun, the IWGP Tag Match was fine for what it was (travel problems and injuries impacted it) and the Mutoh match didn't need to be anything else than Mutoh hitting some of his big spots and further pushing Umino. Biggest negative was the women's match getting fuck all, shave 5 minutes off Tama's match and have him just destroy Anderson, give those 5 to the women and I think the biggest grievances from the undercard are solved. No real thoughts on Mercedes as I haven't watched WWE in so long, but am interested to see what she can do against KAIRI in Feb. 

I think one of NJPW's strongest assets is their junior division, and thought this 4 way was much stronger than the one a few years back with Ospreay & Scurll (based on Cagematch reviews I am in a minority though). I do think Despy was the better option, but understand the Hiromu choice - I wonder if they will go for the title defence record again. For Jay/Okada, I think if it was before Omega/Ospreay people would have felt better about it, as it was fine for what it was. I agree Jay & Okada seem to struggle to get to that next level, they just don't have strong chemistry. I think the Dominion match was better though. Agree that Ibushi is Jay's best opponent, and Ishii probably second best. 

Now for New Years Dash thoughts

Spoiler

Biggest New Years Dash show since I think the one with Suzuki Gun's return maybe? The pandemic ones have been pretty flat, and don't recall anything major shock happening at the 2020 one as it was Liger's retirement. I doubt VOW's news that Suzuki-Gun breaking up was due to guys not signing contracts, I think they just wanted Zack & Taichi to lead their own groups, and with JONAH leaving there was a vacancy to fill which Zack easily could do due to his history with TMDK members. Sharp-dressed TAKA is now my favourite TAKA, I do think they'll add another heavy though, possibly a leader because as much as I love Taichi, he's been booked as a henchman for so long. TAKA did say something about changes in the next coming months so we'll see. Loved Zack dragging Fujita into TMDK, and the cameras cutting to miffed Oiwa.

Going forward, the pairings for titles & big feuds seem to be for New Beginning tour/San Jose PPV:
IWGP World/KOPW: Okada v Takagi
IWGP US: Omega v Cobb
IWGP Tag: Bishamon vs TMDK
TV Title: Zack vs Ishii
IWGP Jr: Hiromu vs YOH
IWGP Jr Tag: Catch 22 vs Kanemaru/DOUKI
NEVER 6-Man: House of Torture vs Suzuki/Narita/Desperado
Jay vs Hikuleo
Ospreay vs Taichi

I don't think they built anyone for Tama off memory, maybe ELP or KENTA? The Bullet Club/GoD-Hontai match seemed more to build up Jay/Hikuleo than anything. I guess its bye-bye Jay, and hopefully they'll let Bullet Club die off after that, though doubt it as they still move merch. I guess ELP or KENTA take over when Jay leaves? Probably would have been Juice if he stuck around. 

 

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Trying to figure how LIJ vs KONGO will play out.

Naito vs Kenoh, Takagi vs Nakajima, SANADA vs Soya seem natural but is it still too early to go all the way with some of these? If Titan is back they can do Hi69 and Ohara vs BUSHI and Titan. That would leave Hiromu vs TADASUKE which is kind of weird. Or Hiromu for Titan and then TADASUKE is just kind of there.

And then the main event? Okada/Kaito vs ?? Tanahashi? Is it not time to put Jake in there? They surely can't do Okada/Tanahashi vs Kaito/Jake.

 

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On 1/4/2023 at 6:47 PM, Niners Fan in CT said:

Mercedes gear was cool to me.  Her hair goes much better with the black jacket.   Also..   The "botch" was on kairi but who cares.  They'll have a super match. 

I am trying to make it through this show and just saw this....and yeah, that one was on KAIRI. She didn't give Mercedes enough time to get hold of her. She sank to the mat like a stone. For someone in ring that has pretty immaculate offense, that was quite bizarre. I am guessing she was thinking another move was gonna happen and went with that instead. 

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Card for Wrestle Kingdom NJPW vs NOAH on 1/21

Ryohei OIwa/Kosei Fujita vs Yasutaka Yano/Ozawa Taishi

Tomohiro Ishii/Oskar Leube vs Masa Kitayama/Daiki Inaba

Hiroshi Tanahashi/Toru Yano/Satoshi Kojima/Takashi Sugiura vs Naomichi Marufuji/KENTA/El Phantasmo/Gedo

El Desperado vs Yo-Hey

Tiger Mask/Ryusuke Taguchi/Master Wato vs Alejandro/Junta Miyawaki/Amakusa

Kazuchika Okada/Togi Makabe vs Kaito Kiyomiya/Yoshiki Inamura

BUSHI vs TADASUKE

Hiromu Takahashi vs Hajime Ohara

Sanada vs Manabu Soya

Shingo Takagi vs Katsuhiko Nakajima

Tetsuya Naito vs KENOH

The show will be on Abema PPV.

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2 hours ago, lostinube said:

Sanada vs Manabu Soya

Shingo Takagi vs Katsuhiko Nakajima

Tetsuya Naito vs KENOH

Sanada & Soya facing off against Sekimoto & Okabayashi live in Sumo Hall over 10 years ago is definitely one of my top memories of watching live events here in Japan. The match was brutal in the best way possible.  Worth a watch if you've never seen their matches.  All the matches in their short series were great, if I recall.  

A bit sad to say, those matches might have been a peak achievement for Soya, and maybe even Sanada.  Sure, Soya had Get Wild with Omori, which I loved, and of course Sanada went on to some bigger stages in New Japan.  Soya's in NOAH now, but I never really hear his name come up, and that tells me something.  Sanada is still Sanada, if you know what I mean.

What I'm saying is, the underlying theme (of mediocrity, to be honest) is already in place, so this is a surprisingly deep match (if such a thing could be said), and I would love for them to go all out and tell the story as viscerally as possible.  It's in their hands to pull if off, so I guess we shall see.  

Shingo vs. Nakajima is going to be bonkers. 

Naito and Kenoh will have to follow it, but the level of swagger in that match will likely be incalculable, and that alone will carry it.  

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1 hour ago, Gordlow said:

Two thoughts on that:

1) Six and a quarter out of five is the most completely stupid match rating I have ever seen.

2) He is not wrong. It's stupid, but it's accurate.

I've never gone above ***** for 1).

Edited by The Natural
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I think the wrestlers I've given the most ***** to:

1. Bryan Danielson/Daniel Bryan.

2. Kenta Kobashi.

3. Kazuchika Okada.

4. Mitsuharu Misawa.

5. Hiroshi Tanahashi/Ricky Steamboat.

Edited by The Natural
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On 1/5/2023 at 4:41 PM, Craig H said:

Also, re-watched Omega vs Ospreay and I swear Ospreay blasted Omega so hard that Omega's vertigo returned. Ospreay with one of his late forearm shivers just blasts Omega right in the ear.

That match though...Again, hell of a match, but damn, they could have dialed down the violence and stiffness by a lot and still have had a tremendous match.

BTW, Omega and Okada is some real Apolo and Rocky type shit. Hard not to smile for those two.

Those Hidden Blades were vicious:

The Hidden Blade and Elevated are the only things about Will Ospreay I like. That's it. I'd rather watch different wrestlers than Ospreay.

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16 hours ago, Gordlow said:

Two thoughts on that:

1) Six and a quarter out of five is the most completely stupid match rating I have ever seen.

2) He is not wrong. It's stupid, but it's accurate.

It is, but his explanation actually makes sense in a weird way.  It was essentially, "this was one of the greatest matches I've ever seen and it was better than a ton of matches I gave the full monty to so how could I not go higher than 5?"  How he landed specifically at ******1/4 I haven't a clue

But he also sounded like he thought it was better than the match he gave 7 stars to a couple years ago, so I don't think Dave can even keep his ratings straight at this point.  Plus he's basically admitted to a bit of trolling with his ratings sometimes and he seems to get off on the bickering it causes.......

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It’s not that hard to deduce, but Dave explained it in the show with Garrett tonight; he said he thought it was better than Okada v Omega 1, on par with 2 but still considers the 2/3 falls the best match of all time. I think the only thing up for debate is whether or not it is better than Okada v Omega 1. Pretty damned close.

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3 hours ago, matwarz said:

It’s not that hard to deduce, but Dave explained it in the show with Garrett tonight; he said he thought it was better than Okada v Omega 1, on par with 2 but still considers the 2/3 falls the best match of all time. I think the only thing up for debate is whether or not it is better than Okada v Omega 1. Pretty damned close.

Here's my ranking:

5. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega. NJPW Dominion 2017. *****.

4. Kenny Omega vs. Will Ospreay. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 17. *****.

3. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW G1 Climax 27. *****.

2. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11. *****.

1. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW Dominion 2018. *****.

For me the first Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega match and the fourth Kazuchika Okada/Kenny Omega match are neck and neck for top spot. So close. I think I'd still give it to the latter. Just. My unpopular opinion is that the second match, the draw is the worst of the four by far. Yes, I prefer the shorter G1 Climax 27 match with Okada selling the damage he's taken in his historic IWGP Heavyweight Championship 4th reign.

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6 minutes ago, The Natural said:

Here's my ranking:

5. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega. NJPW Dominion 2017. *****.

4. Kenny Omega vs. Will Ospreay. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 17. *****.

3. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW G1 Climax 27. *****.

2. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11. *****.

1. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW Dominion 2018. *****.

For me the first Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega match and the fourth Kazuchika Okada/Kenny Omega match are neck and neck for top spot. So close. I think I'd still give it to the latter. Just. My unpopular opinion is that the second match, the draw is the worst of the four by far. Yes, I prefer the shorter G1 Climax 27 match with Okada selling the damage he's taken in his historic IWGP Heavyweight Championship 4th reign.

Here's Cagematch:

5. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega. NJPW Dominion 2017. 9.69.

4. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW G1 Climax 27. 9.74.

2. Kenny Omega vs. Will Ospreay. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 17. 9.80.

2. Kenny Omega vs. Kazuchika Okada. NJPW Dominion 2018. 9.80.

1. Kazuchika Okada vs. Kenny Omega. NJPW Wrestle Kingdom 11. 9.82.

Edited by The Natural
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I’ve watched Omega-Ospreay 4 times now, finally getting it on the big screen in HD tonight. Even more visceral and nasty. It gets better every time I watch it. I’m in awe of Ospreay’s selling. What I love about both guys is their total commitment to every little aspect from the second they hit the stage to the second they pass through the curtain. It’s a toss up for positioning with this and the WK11 match and I could go either way. WK11 is such an important match in many ways.

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Hello everyone - finally watched WK17, which I think is the first Dome I've watched since WK15. I thought it fine, but I preferred White-Okada to Omega-Ospreay, both at **** for me but I think I'm more into White's character work and the more grounded heel style he has. I was surprised at Omega-Ospreay in that it wasn't just a cavalcade of avalanche moves and super reversals, and the blood did help, but I feel slightly immune to that style of wrestling at the moment.

Has Narita been a Shibata cosplayer for long? He is a good copyist but I guess I wasn't into it as a long-term strategy.

Obviously NJPW can push and highlight who they want but Ishii/Shingo being in a toss-off ranbo while Tama Tonga faces the baked potato man in a singles match just screams politics to me.

Sasha Banks had original NXT levels of awkwardness.

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Omega/Ospreay is the only match that I’ve seen from WK so far and I don’t think I’ve ever experienced a match like it. Just a vicious performance from Omega and perfect storytelling from both, at the end I was like “thank god it’s over” but in the best way possible. 
 

On a side note I used to love coming on to this forum especially during G1s and after WKs but threads are unreadable these days with double post after double post full of self quotes. 

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3 hours ago, peterien said:

 
 

On a side note I used to love coming on to this forum especially during G1s and after WKs but threads are unreadable these days with double post after double post full of self quotes. 

That's every wrestling thread now.

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