Hollywood Actors and Their Place on the Card

[supremebve]

 

 

 

 

I look at character actors as the mid-card.  People like Ron Perlman, Steve Buscemi, etc.

Those dudes are Jobbers to the Stars at best.  How many times have you spent money to see either of them?  You are basically saying that Kofi Kingston and Brodus Clay are mid-carders.  A mid-carder should be someone like Amy Adams or even Morgan Freeman, people who are undeniably stars, can handle a starring role if you need them to, but are generally there to support the main even talent. 

 

I think the biggest question is how many people can really be called main eventers?  Is Will Smith still a championship level worker?  Brad Pitt has been the star of a lot of movies, but World War Z is his biggest hit, and if that is his ceiling can he really be in the main event?  I think that the main event guys right now are Robert Downey Jr.(WWE Champion),  George Clooney(World Champion),  Denzel Washington(Multi-time former champion, already reached his peak, but you can't take him out of the title picture), Jennifer Lawrence(Young lion, making a run to be the top dog for the coming future), The Rock(He fills the Mick Foley role of guy who rarely gets the belt, but is always dangerous)  Leonardo DiCaprio(The guy that who probably should have the belt, but doesn't really play the backstage politics).

The fact that you think The Rock is anywhere near the level of Leo, both in terms of acting ability and as a box office draw, tells me that you have probably never checked the weekend top 10 ever. Talk about delusions of grandeur. Just because this is a wrestling board doesn't mean that the biggest wrestling draw is equatable to the biggest box office draw. I recommend you visit other websites besides wwe.com and here.

Regarding this thread, the top box office draws are the ones who command $20M per movie, and there's only a handful of these: Denzel, Will Smith, Julia Roberts, Leo. Brad is great, but the record indicates that he is not a great draw, as I believe WWZ was his first film to cross $100M in the US (Not counting IG or Mr and Mrs Smith).

 

Where did I say that The Rock was anywhere near the level of Leo as far as acting ability and box office draw, because I don't remember saying that.  I said that Leo should probably have the belt, but he doesn't really play the backstage politics.  Leonardo DiCaprio is either the best or second best leading man working right now, but he never does sequels, remakes(Great Gatsby notwithstanding), comic book movies, or anything that isn't a challenge to him.  He is outstanding in every role and would probably be the ace if he would do the big summer movies. 

 

Back to The Rock, he is basically the top action star working right now.  He spent 10 weeks with the #1 movie this year with GI Joe and Fast 6.  He isn't going to winning any Oscars for his work, but he has an undeniable screen presence.  He is also one of the few guys, in my opinion, who actually comes off as a star in every role he is in.  And if we are going by pay, The Rock made $46 million this year, and Leo made $39 million.  If we are talking about the actual skill of acting, there is no comparison, but The Rock is a bigger box office draw than you are giving him credit for.

 

Is there a top comedic actor right now?  It doesn't seem like there is anyone in the Eddie Murphy/Jim Carey mold right now.

 

 

Rock's $46M between 4 movies versus Leo's $39M between 2. Also, attributing GI Joe and Fast 6 to Rock is laughable, I think Mister's Willis and Diesel would take issue with that. I associated you saying the Rock and Leo were on the same level when you mentioned Rocky in the same paragraph with other huge box office talent such as George, RDJ, and Denzel. Don't act like you weren't putting Dwayne up with them.

 

I really have no fucking clue what you mean by Leo "Should have the belt but doesn't play backstage politics." Just because Vince made Arnold the World Box Office Champ doesn't mean the title actually exists.

 

You may very well be a crazy person, but this thread is about Hollywood actors and their place on the card...so when I say that Leo "Should have the belt but doesn't play backstage politics," it is a metaphor about him being a "championship level" talent that is not necessarily playing the "championship roles."  He is as talented and dedicated as anyone working in film today, he just doesn't play the roles that seem to dominate popular film today.  How do you not understand that? 

 

I don't think a second GI Joe gets made without The Rock, and adding him to Fast 5 gave that franchise the punch in the arm that it needed in order to make the jump from guilty pleasure to legitimately beloved franchise.  Bruce Willis is no longer a box office draw, and Vin Diesel's career was going nowhere fast until he got back into the aforementioned Fast and Furious franchise.  I'm not saying The Rock is fucking Robert DeNiro, I'm saying he is currently the world's biggest action star.

[Burgundy LaRue]

Speaking of Michael B. Jordan, he's on track to become the hybrid of Denzel and Will Smith.  He's willing to do big-time action/franchise films, but will also take on roles that require real acting.  A couple of big box office films under his belt, and he takes the top spot.  Dude has the potential to have a long run if he stays focused.

 

As for The Rock, supreme is right.  No one is going to mistake the guy for Michael Fassbender, but he know his niche and plays it really well.  Channing Tatum is the same way.  Both are good looking, manly with a hint of vulnerability, so women love them.  Men can respect them because they look like they can kick ass.  They're perfect action heroes.

 

Which makes one wonder where guys like Chris Hemsworth and Chris Evans fit.  Both are famous for being superheroes, but what else do they bring to the table?  Are they willing to play politics if needed?  Hemsworth seems to picking good projects beyond Avengers/Thor and has a real chance to move up the card. He's another guy in the vein of Rock/Tatum--women love him, men like him.  Evans was in some real stinkers before Captain America gave him another lifeline.  But he doesn't seem to be caught up in the backstage drama, so I think what we're seeing from him is his peak.  He'll always find work if he wants, but could easily retire to a secluded beach and be done with Hollywood shenigans.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Jesus this thread got stupidly serious.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

GUYS LEO WOULD BE THE CHAMP BUT HE HASN'T GONE TO STEPH AND BURIED RYAN GOSLINGICHO

[Antacular]

 

 

 

 

 

I look at character actors as the mid-card.  People like Ron Perlman, Steve Buscemi, etc.

Those dudes are Jobbers to the Stars at best.  How many times have you spent money to see either of them?  You are basically saying that Kofi Kingston and Brodus Clay are mid-carders.  A mid-carder should be someone like Amy Adams or even Morgan Freeman, people who are undeniably stars, can handle a starring role if you need them to, but are generally there to support the main even talent. 

 

I think the biggest question is how many people can really be called main eventers?  Is Will Smith still a championship level worker?  Brad Pitt has been the star of a lot of movies, but World War Z is his biggest hit, and if that is his ceiling can he really be in the main event?  I think that the main event guys right now are Robert Downey Jr.(WWE Champion),  George Clooney(World Champion),  Denzel Washington(Multi-time former champion, already reached his peak, but you can't take him out of the title picture), Jennifer Lawrence(Young lion, making a run to be the top dog for the coming future), The Rock(He fills the Mick Foley role of guy who rarely gets the belt, but is always dangerous)  Leonardo DiCaprio(The guy that who probably should have the belt, but doesn't really play the backstage politics).

The fact that you think The Rock is anywhere near the level of Leo, both in terms of acting ability and as a box office draw, tells me that you have probably never checked the weekend top 10 ever. Talk about delusions of grandeur. Just because this is a wrestling board doesn't mean that the biggest wrestling draw is equatable to the biggest box office draw. I recommend you visit other websites besides wwe.com and here.

Regarding this thread, the top box office draws are the ones who command $20M per movie, and there's only a handful of these: Denzel, Will Smith, Julia Roberts, Leo. Brad is great, but the record indicates that he is not a great draw, as I believe WWZ was his first film to cross $100M in the US (Not counting IG or Mr and Mrs Smith).

 

Where did I say that The Rock was anywhere near the level of Leo as far as acting ability and box office draw, because I don't remember saying that.  I said that Leo should probably have the belt, but he doesn't really play the backstage politics.  Leonardo DiCaprio is either the best or second best leading man working right now, but he never does sequels, remakes(Great Gatsby notwithstanding), comic book movies, or anything that isn't a challenge to him.  He is outstanding in every role and would probably be the ace if he would do the big summer movies. 

 

Back to The Rock, he is basically the top action star working right now.  He spent 10 weeks with the #1 movie this year with GI Joe and Fast 6.  He isn't going to winning any Oscars for his work, but he has an undeniable screen presence.  He is also one of the few guys, in my opinion, who actually comes off as a star in every role he is in.  And if we are going by pay, The Rock made $46 million this year, and Leo made $39 million.  If we are talking about the actual skill of acting, there is no comparison, but The Rock is a bigger box office draw than you are giving him credit for.

 

Is there a top comedic actor right now?  It doesn't seem like there is anyone in the Eddie Murphy/Jim Carey mold right now.

 

 

Rock's $46M between 4 movies versus Leo's $39M between 2. Also, attributing GI Joe and Fast 6 to Rock is laughable, I think Mister's Willis and Diesel would take issue with that. I associated you saying the Rock and Leo were on the same level when you mentioned Rocky in the same paragraph with other huge box office talent such as George, RDJ, and Denzel. Don't act like you weren't putting Dwayne up with them.

 

I really have no fucking clue what you mean by Leo "Should have the belt but doesn't play backstage politics." Just because Vince made Arnold the World Box Office Champ doesn't mean the title actually exists.

 

You may very well be a crazy person, but this thread is about Hollywood actors and their place on the card...so when I say that Leo "Should have the belt but doesn't play backstage politics," it is a metaphor about him being a "championship level" talent that is not necessarily playing the "championship roles."  He is as talented and dedicated as anyone working in film today, he just doesn't play the roles that seem to dominate popular film today.  How do you not understand that? 

 

I don't think a second GI Joe gets made without The Rock, and adding him to Fast 5 gave that franchise the punch in the arm that it needed in order to make the jump from guilty pleasure to legitimately beloved franchise.  Bruce Willis is no longer a box office draw, and Vin Diesel's career was going nowhere fast until he got back into the aforementioned Fast and Furious franchise.  I'm not saying The Rock is fucking Robert DeNiro, I'm saying he is currently the world's biggest action star.

 

 

My diagnosis has nothing to do with the fact that you, sir, are talking out of your ass. What the FUCK is a "championship role???" What the hell are the kind of roles that "seem to dominate popular film today??" Did you go to Julliard? Are you a member of SGA? Were you an intern with the Sun-Tribune and edit Ebert? Or are you just using retarded wrestling analogies to justify your man-crush for Dwayne's Johnson?

 

EDIT: Your Bruce Willis comment is evidence you're clueless. Die Hard FIVE pulled in almost the exact same numbers as Journey 2, Rocky's biggest success yet. Looper did $30M versus $180 gross, RED $60M versus $200M. Not exactly signs of a "washed up star."

 

As for The Rock, supreme is right.  No one is going to mistake the guy for Michael Fassbender, but he know his niche and plays it really well.  Channing Tatum is the same way.  Both are good looking, manly with a hint of vulnerability, so women love them.  Men can respect them because they look like they can kick ass.  They're perfect action heroes.

 

 

No, he's not. There's a world of difference between saying the Rock "knows his niche and plays it really well" and is a top box office draw that should be included in the same paragraph as Denzel, Leo, and RDJ. I'm not even saying the Rock is a bad actor, I've thoroughly enjoyed almost all of his work thus far. But the numbers don't lie: He's not a $20M per film actor, and the fact that he made $46M between 4 films versus Leo and crew making $20M per film hammers home my point.

[Jrag]

Yep, crazy person.

[Antacular]

If by crazy you mean I know how to read a film's budget numbers and draw the proper conclusion regarding how profitable said venture was, and be able to extend this analysis for several films of an actor's recent body of work, thus determining whether they put asses in seats or not, then yes, I am batshit insane.

[Jrag]

[Antacular]

That's an easy dichotomy, I much prefer the latter over the former.

[supremebve]

so is Ben Affleck - Randy Orton?

Affleck is HHH.  Think about it he was a midcard star when other people were directing, but he became a legit leading man once he started calling the shots.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

If by crazy you mean I know how to read a film's budget numbers and draw the proper conclusion regarding how profitable said venture was, and be able to extend this analysis for several films of an actor's recent body of work, thus determining whether they put asses in seats or not, then yes, I am batshit insane.

Why be such a giant twat about it though? It's a whimsical stupid thread, not a place to preach your homophobic agenda.

[Antacular]

Probably for the same reasons you decided to display your rampant misogynist worldview here?

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

Damn it I thought you'd present more of a challenge.

 

As you were.

[Antacular]

Sorry babe, but if you're gonna half ass it, shouldn't expect the full effort from me either.

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

This would be like if the old battle scarred leader of the Pride was attacked by a young upstart waving his dick from half a mile away.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Lets get this back on track.

 

Vin Diesel and Paul Walker are the Road Warriors. Ok apart.. but unstoppable together..

[Antacular]

And it's only a half mile because it's gotten cold out recently.

[Ace]

Ron Perlman and character actors of his ilk are more like a Benoit/Malenko type, I think.

[Big Fresh]

I'm not naming any names here, but some of you need to be hit over the head with a frying pan.

[Marty Sugar]

Wouldn't Christian Bale be more like Randy Orton? Yes, he's a Main Eventer...but he also is apt to do something stupid and piss off the wrong people?

[Burgundy LaRue]

Earlier in his career, I would have said yes.  Bale's Terminator meltdown = Orton's wellness suspension.  But Bale seems to have found a healthy medium, so I don't know if he'll going off the deep end again.

[Antacular]

I thought this was a thread about which Hollywood actors are the biggest draws that deserve top billing, and which ones are only used to supplement films in order to put asses in seats. Didn't realize we were talking about  "making a direct parallel between such and such actor and such and such wrestler based anything besides their ability to draw." My apologies for thinking this was an objective discussion about making money and using foreign concepts like budgets and profits. Maybe the next thread title should read "Hollywood Actors and their WWE Doppelgangers."

[Fat Spanish Waiter]

I thought this was a thread about which Hollywood actors are the biggest draws that deserve top billing, and which ones are only used to supplement films in order to put asses in seats. Didn't realize we were talking about  "making a direct parallel between such and such actor and such and such wrestler based anything besides their ability to draw." My apologies for thinking this was an objective discussion about making money and using foreign concepts like budgets and profits. Maybe the next thread title should read "Hollywood Actors and their WWE Doppelgangers."

Apology accepted

[JRGoldman]

Mike Quckenbush is Wes Anderson. I guess that would make Bill Murray, like, the entire Colony or something. 

[supremebve]

Ron Perlman and character actors of his ilk are more like a Benoit/Malenko type, I think.

I think character actors are more like the luchadores in WCW. There were some like Juvi and Psycosis who eventually separated themselves from the pack.  There were others like Silver King and La Parka who eventually got cult followings.  Then there were guys like Ciclope and the Villanos who were guys who you recognized, and were in some really fun matches, but ultimately weren't ever contenders.  Ron Perlman who is great in just about everything he is in, is an intercontinental or U.S. champion at best(not an insult, some of the best wrestlers in history peaked with those titles).

 

I think Benoit/Malenko were solid mid to upper midcard guys, who were closer to Jake Gyllenhaal or Idris Elba.  They are guys with solid fan bases, can carry a movie, but ultimately are a step below the biggest stars. 

 

Are we going to include TV actors in this discussion?