AEW - AUGUST 2022

[ThatTCGuy]

27 minutes ago, A_K said:

Carny Dave will be Carny Dave. Hasn’t got a clue. WWE have been gaining traction for months .. even before the Vince debacle and subsequent “refresh”. Laws of diminishing returns on those names now .. as you say, they’re better going back to the youth to some extent. In a bit of a bind for mid-long-term plan but that has ever been the case in ‘22. The fact Jericho is still front and centre tells you all you need to know.

Dave has been strangely doom and gloom about AEW ever since Double or Nothing when by all accounts things seem to be fine on all fronts

[TheVileOne]

Booking ROH on the AEW programming was a mistake that watered down and diluted the product.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

57 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Booking ROH on the AEW programming was a mistake that watered down and diluted the product.

I'm starting to tend to agree, man. I understand the history, I understand the value of the tape library for this falls streaming negotiations ( X hours of content - which is why I thought those marathon tapings during the pandemic were a pretty ingenious way of adding value to the company during an uncertain time) but it's just not working for me, brother.

If they are insistent upon keeping ROH alive in some form, I'd pivot a bit and treat the shows like NXT Takeovers - put them in the same city as the AEW PPVs the night before, run it from 8-10, and then do the live go-home Rampage at 10. Unify all the titles with their AEW counterparts (maybe keep the Pure active just because it's such a unique concept, you could even make it the top Dark belt like I wanted to do with the FTW way back when) and run nothing but 'dream matches' between AEW talent and indy guys. Doesn't need to necessarily be canon on the main shows, other than to say during someone's entrance like "Hey, don't miss Danielson vs Angelico this Friday" or whatever. Basically, treat it like a combination of the aforementioned Takeovers and a quarterly version of ECW One Night Stand and I think it's both A) a much more palatable way of presenting it for the average viewer and B) a way to keep AEW from being watered down as you mentioned.

Edited August 9, 2022 by Zakk_Sabbath
Also: though I thought the latest one was the best of the bunch, if the BOTB shows aren't gonna be treated like bigger deals, you could run ROH in that slot instead

[Jiji]

I think Miro is already twice the wrestler Wardlow ever will be. And ten times the promo. And I like Wardlow a lot but he's been a whole lot of nothing since the MJF feud. 

Whatever is going to happen with ROH the sooner it happens the better. This shit is def small time feeling on AEW tv. I am down on the booking this year and this is probably the least jazzed I've been on the company but then my friend just sent me a screenshot of Ibushi saying he's going to be making three appearances for AEW and also shit on the booking lol. Is this true?! 

Yes it is! Fuck yes! Let's fucking go! Tony don't fuck this up! Is his shoulder magically healed or is he doing this up Orndorff style? 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Jiji

[Just Dave]

Da Meltz is allegedly a bit butthurt over getting worked by TK and co over the MJF situation. Having said that, I do think AEW has gotten mired down in some nonsense. Assuming they have lost some momentum/ ground to WWE, what would y'all do to have them regain some momentum? For me, the complete absence of AEW talent on other media outlets is baffling. Why are Ricky Starks, Jade Cargill, Keith Lee and Jungle Boy not out doing morning shows and other talk shows? Mox was great at that in WWE. He should be doing that more. I think in 2022 that might be where the "new audience" is. People who's attention you capture outside the wrestling space...

[A_K]

1 hour ago, (BP) said:

Chris Jericho is good in general and really good for AEW. Sorry, I don’t make the rules. 

There appears to be a pretty strong rule that Dynamite can’t round a million while Smackdown ramps towards 2 and that Rampage can only go down, so if he’s a pillar holding those rules in place good for him I suppose 

Edited August 9, 2022 by A_K

[Zakk_Sabbath]

6 minutes ago, just drew said:

think in 2022 that might be where the "new audience" is. People who's attention you capture outside the wrestling space...

Those kinds of shows are watched by such an old audience, though - the kinds of folks who will ask if "The Hulk" is still wrestling. No one watching Gayle King is buying a ticket to All Out.

For clarity, I don't think this needs to be done; but IF they were hypothetically going to make any sort of time/money investment into drawing the mythical casuals, the smarter thing would be to try and get in bed with some of these social media influencers to get younger, more valuable viewers.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 minute ago, A_K said:

There appears to be a pretty strong rule that Dynamite can’t round a million while Smackdown ramps towards 2.5 and that Rampage can only go down, so if he’s a pillar holding those rules in place good for him I suppose 

Rampage was up almost 25% from last week, my man. I completely understand the concern-- I too have some scars from March '01 that have not yet healed-- but I think you're leaning too hard into the negativity on this one.

[Just Dave]

That's a good point. 

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

1 hour ago, (BP) said:

Chris Jericho is good in general and really good for AEW. Sorry, I don’t make the rules. 

When the JAS first formed, Meltzer did a segment about how hard it is to get audiences to boo aging vets near the end of their careers (Flair, for example).  I’m not a huge fan of the Inner Circle or the JAS, but Jericho’s working pretty hard to be hateable and get people to boo him.  I give him a lot of credit for that.

I do wish he’d stop coming out to whatever Fozzy song he uses for an entrance theme.  The singalong stuff is annoying for a heel act.  It’d be more effective if he’d come out and tell crowds they don’t deserve Fozzy then enter without a theme.  Also, not playing Fozzy would probably be be doing most of us a favor. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Tarheel Moneghetti

[Zakk_Sabbath]

7 minutes ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

do wish he’d stop coming out to whatever Fozzy song he uses for an entrance theme.  The singalong stuff is annoying for a heel act.  It’d be more effective if he’d come out and tell crowds they don’t deserve Fozzy then enter without a theme.  

Agreed big on this one. I am hoping he's got different music for the Mox match, since they've leaned so hard into the "Lionheart" thing. Both his WCW themes are production music (so they could go the Jeff Hardy route) or they could license White Zombie (or have Rukus do a sound-alike) for a more ECW approach.

All of that said, I wouldn't hold my breath for a more permanent change:

https://www.fightful.com/wrestling/chris-jericho-says-he-and-tony-khan-agreed-not-change-his-theme-song-despite-heel-turn

[StretchMediatedHypertrophy]

tbf JAS pretty frequently cuts the singalong off, but Jericho the character enjoys the singalong too much to do that everytime. I don't think that's a huge deal.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

1 minute ago, SprintingFromAmerica said:

tbf JAS pretty frequently cuts the singalong off, but Jericho the character enjoys the singalong too much to do that everytime. I don't think that's a huge deal.

I should have mentioned in my last post, I do really like the approach they take with not having Jericho do it himself, because it always gets 2.0 great heat (and ostensibly the goal of this whole thing is to prop up the younger guys)

[Technico Support]

3 hours ago, Craig H said:

Yes. To al of that, yes. It's just quackery, voodoo shit that's non-invasive and MAY help. If a couple months down the line Black got an MRI and found out he had a herniated disc or a pinched nerve or worse, I wouldn't be surprised. He's taken way too many dangerous bumps on his spine or back or head or neck over the years to escape unscathed.

I'm really sensitive to that as I had a horrible herniated disk/pinched sciatic nerve last year that kept me awake and in pain for a full month between injury and surgery and still don't have all the feeling back in some toes.  Spinal injuries are nothing to fuck with and peddling quackery when a guy really needs help from an actual doctor is fucking gross.  No different from anti vax or any other "I know more than the establishment, maaaaan" type shit.

[Craig H]

52 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I'm really sensitive to that as I had a horrible herniated disk/pinched sciatic nerve last year that kept me awake and in pain for a full month between injury and surgery and still don't have all the feeling back in some toes.  Spinal injuries are nothing to fuck with and peddling quackery when a guy really needs help from an actual doctor is fucking gross.  No different from anti vax or any other "I know more than the establishment, maaaaan" type shit.

I'm fairly sympathetic to wrestlers and other athletes who want to try anything and everything to avoid the knife. It's not like surgery isn't without its own risks that aren't just a very long amount of time to rehab. You have recovery, rehab, setbacks, etc. and that's just if the surgery goes well. Kenny is still all kinds of fucked up even after having surgery or at least he was all kinds of fucked up enough to be mentally exhausted and frustrated and this is someone who was in multiple G1s. I also always remember those images of Olympic swimmers with cupping marks all over their body. Just all of them covered in these giant hickies because it's the Olympics and you can't afford to quit at that stage.

So I mean, I get it, but I'm also not an athlete and I'm quick to call that shit quackery and go for whatever the most hi-tech shit I can get at a hospital is. Except for my back. I have three family members who went under the knife for their back problems. Two of them walked before and then never walked again after. That weighed heavily on my brother who has spinal stenosis and other issues from being 6'5" and playing basketball and running, like, man in his 50s going running. It was either live with terrible pain and try some alternative remedies or get surgery and risk what happened to two of our other family members. Eventually he couldn't put it off any longer. Post-surgery he can't play basketball anymore, he can't run, but he can thankfully still walk, bowl, play with his grandkids, etc. and not be in a bunch of pain. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

17 hours ago, Technico Support said:

I'm really sensitive to that as I had a horrible herniated disk/pinched sciatic nerve last year that kept me awake and in pain for a full month between injury and surgery and still don't have all the feeling back in some toes.  Spinal injuries are nothing to fuck with and peddling quackery when a guy really needs help from an actual doctor is fucking gross.  No different from anti vax or any other "I know more than the establishment, maaaaan" type shit.

I don't want to doxx myself so I can't get into more detail, but I've dealt with a lot of university students who are becoming naturopathic "doctors" and it's just horrendous, gross shit. Always makes me think of when Steve Jobs tried to cure his cancer by drinking lots of juice. They're outright manslaughtering.

Edit: just want to quickly edit this post because  I saw a couple likes when I logged in today, and realized that in my fury yesterday, I rudely forgot to wish you both well with your injuries - sorry @Technico Support(. And @Craig H (and your bro). Best of luck to you all, shit is no joke.

Edited August 10, 2022 by Zakk_Sabbath

[Craig H]

And yeah, I also have a sciatic issue where at it's worst, I can barely walk and can't even stand up straight, not to mention the horrible burning feeling that goes shooting from my right hip down my right thigh. I opted for my own physical therapy at home where I'm basically doing a lot of planks or other pilates and yoga poses. I've been able to stay mobile, but the burning in my side is a real pain in the ass, no pun intended. 

[TheVileOne]

2 hours ago, just drew said:

Da Meltz is allegedly a bit butthurt over getting worked by TK and co over the MJF situation. Having said that, I do think AEW has gotten mired down in some nonsense. Assuming they have lost some momentum/ ground to WWE, what would y'all do to have them regain some momentum? For me, the complete absence of AEW talent on other media outlets is baffling. Why are Ricky Starks, Jade Cargill, Keith Lee and Jungle Boy not out doing morning shows and other talk shows? Mox was great at that in WWE. He should be doing that more. I think in 2022 that might be where the "new audience" is. People who's attention you capture outside the wrestling space...

Have MJF win the title.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

32 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Have MJF win the title.

I could see them going that route, but it depends on what they had planned for Punk's reign. By the time he's back, and does the unification match with Mox, assuming Punk wins, it does sort of sense to revisit their fued in a title context because long enough will have passed since the dog collar.

I could totally envision a fantastic promo from Punk where he dogs MJF for being so obsessed with him that he tried to create his own pipebomb moment, but goes 'I did it first, I did it better, and I didn't even need to drop a cheap F bomb!" or something like that.

Another thing to consider is the TV/streaming deals coming up soon. It sucks for the younger guys, but the reality of the situation is that you're gonna want that belt on a Punk, Mox, Jericho, or Danielson during those. Shit, if they were ten years younger, I'd put it on Paul Wight or Sting. When you get that deal sorted out, then thats when you go with the Ricky Starkses and the MJFs and the Hangmans of the world.

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

6 hours ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I agree. 

I know that I am likely going to regret asking this, but: What exactly are you complaining about, then?

 "These people I agree with need to stop being so positive about the thing they like" seems like a weird argument to put forward, from my point of view. 

Is yours more of a pro-negativity or an anti-positivity platform? 

Would you like us to stop buzzing people's harsh? To stop yumming their yuck? It's an interesting take on the world, and I appreciate it because it can help me to think more deeply about the wrestling I like, it's just so different from how I prefer to approach things that I sometimes have difficulty wrapping my head around it. 

Edited August 9, 2022 by Gordlow
Added a gif

[John from Cincinnati]

26 minutes ago, Gordlow said:

I know that I am likely going to regret asking this, but: What exactly are you complaining about, then?

 "These people I agree with need to stop being so positive about the thing they like" seems like a weird argument to put forward, from my point of view. 

Is yours more of a pro-negativity or an anti-positivity platform? 

Would you like us to stop buzzing people's harsh? To stop yumming their yuck? It's an interesting take on the world, and I appreciate it because it can help me to think more deeply about the wrestling I like, it's just so different from how I prefer to approach things that I sometimes have difficulty wrapping my head around it. 

I'll try to answer in a manner which hopefully minimizes your potential feelings of regret, but I promise nothing and insist you'll only have yourself to blame for engaging. 

I understand your desire to be positive. But putting that aside, I experience a fairly routine feeling of amazement at how many roads lead some people back to extreme expressions of "hey, look how much good is going on, don't let the door hit the malcontents on the way out, everything's fine!" As takes on the world go, I can't imagine being in a place where I feel such a strong, consistent need to lift up and affirm some company. They ARE doing fine and that's apparent to most, so why do so many responses to news like this take on such an extreme insistence? To convince who? I just marvel at how anyone goes from "person who I clearly see as an asset to the company may be somewhat dissatisfied with their push" to what reads like "let the ingrates learn the hard way, here's twenty other guys I love." I just don't have the roadmap for that one at this time. You're a positive guy, fine, but I don't understand what that is. 

I don't know if you need to stop buzzing people's harsh (and certainly don't worry about mine, I'll live), but I don't think your response quoting Jiji is the most helpful way to engage with what people might feel is mismanaging of a talent. Instead of affirmations of how great things are because we have Claudio and Yuta and Bear Country, I think it'd be more useful to center the talents in question and what needs could/should/might be addressed. I'd hope Tony and his newly-minted talent relations army can get out in front of some potential concerns that talents may have and smooth things over with people who should be strong assets and standard-bearers for years to come. I don't care how many talents the company has that I enjoy greatly, I don't get being so light in your willingness to write off the Redeemer if push came to shove. I'm not such a big fan of the company that I'd center enthusiasm about the product over whether or not they're keeping the right people happy.

I don't think any of that is "pro-negativity" or "anti-positivity." It's just that there was a lot of this stuff when Cody left, there was some when talk of losing MJF was at its height, and it seems it's going to continue being a thing whenever anybody is less-than-content or is outright leaving -- These affirmations that the company is fine, and if they don't want to be here then fuck 'em. From my perspective, if a company is going to let it get to that point with talent I enjoy watching perform as much as I do, barring some extreme circumstances or details I'm unaware of, my thoughts don't race to how deep the bench is and how fine the company is. 

Do you need to stop being positive? No, you don't need to do anything that I'd feel equipped to recommend. But it would be fair to say I don't get where some of the energy is directed. 

I think this is a definite shift in how much I center the happiness of talent versus previous naval gazing, so congrats on making progress? 

[Johnny Sorrow]

7 hours ago, A_K said:

Carny Dave will be Carny Dave. Hasn’t got a clue. WWE have been gaining traction for months .. even before the Vince debacle and subsequent “refresh”. 

Well, Meltzer said exactly that on Jericho's podcast last week.

[Jiji]

Apologies if this has already been posted. Thoughts? 

I am all for shorter pay per views because the crowd burnout really brings my enjoyment of shows down many notches. However, I don't want to pay $400 a year on AEW ppvs. They also just had Punk rag on WWE for this earlier in the year. Mixed feelings but if handled well, I'll be happy. Get the same amount or more people on PPVs so fewer hurt feelings and also make the shows tighter beginning to end. 

[Gordi the former AEW fan]

Just now, Jiji said:

Apologies if this has already been posted. Thoughts? 

I am all for shorter pay per views because the crowd burnout really brings my enjoyment of shows down many notches. However, I don't want to pay $400 a year on AEW ppvs. They also just had Punk rag on WWE for this earlier in the year. Mixed feelings but if handled well, I'll be happy. Get the same amount or more people on PPVs so fewer hurt feelings and also make the shows tighter beginning to end. 

The way to do it would be to charge roughly the same price for two shows that they are now charging for one, right? Just an absolute show of love and appreciation for their fan base. Or make AEW's total cut for both shows roughly the same as it is now,  but allow PPV providers to charge their fees for both? Not sure about the business model here.

Hopefully production costs won't be literally doubled if they are running two nights in one building. 

Does WrestleMania cost twice as much as a normal Premium Live Event? Or, do fans have to pay full price for each of the two days? 

I can see the appeal of offering, say, two 2-3 hour shows, reducing viewer fatigue, and getting more of the roster on PPV. But you are also asking fans with other, competing, priorities to take two nights away from family or whatever (like, double the commitment to watching wrestling as a priority - on my mind as always during G1 season). Offering something close to a two for one deal might make it easier for folks who have a spouse to convince, as well as those of us on a budget.

Personally, I'd like them to keep it to four PPVs per year. It really feels like the perfect balance point. You get time to build to it, and I can handle that much wrestling in one sitting that often in a single year. 

I am also perfectly comfortable with one 2-hour and one 1-hour main show/week plus optional YouTube viewing. 

Don't really think this is a case where more would be better. 

 "Keep them wanting more" seems to me a better plan than "drown them in it."

 

 

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

23 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

I don't know if you need to stop buzzing people's harsh (and certainly don't worry about mine, I'll live), but I don't think your response quoting Jiji is the most helpful way to engage with what people might feel is mismanaging of a talent.

Co-sign. I'll add that Gordlow's response of a Rock rolling his eyes gif to Jiji's concerns about the women's division was... how can I put this... counterproductive?

There comes a point where positivity turns close to toxic, and an unwillingness to hear or respond to any criticism of a product you enjoy is difficult to discuss with. If someone is perfectly satisfied with how things are going, then that's great and I'm happy for them, but there are things that I think we all wish could be done better and I don't think the way to resolve that is to dismiss their concerns with no rebuttal aside from a gif. If you disagree, that's totally fine, but just because someone is dissatisfied with something you think is great is no reason to be mean about it.

Remember this old chestnut?

That cuts the other way as well.