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August 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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44 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

at least the Simpsons cameo worked better with Bret as a heel

One interesting thing that probably got lost in the shuffle post-Survivor Series 97 is that the WWF went through Virginia and North Carolina and were drawing pretty well compared to their norms in that area.

7400 in Richmond for a House Show, 13000 in Greenboro for the first show in 7 years, 8200 in Hampton fir a house show, 8000 in Fayetteville for Raw, and then 6500 in Roanoke.

They drew 1700 in Greensboro in October 1990. They drew 4400 in Richmond in November 1996 for a house show and then 9300 for Cold Day In Hell.

Could argue that going into Crockett County and having success helped motivate them to go to Greensboro for Unforgiven and the next day in Hampton for Raw, which turned out to have a memorable moment.

I guess trying to figure out how much the WWF was actually drawing in 1997 might be sorta hard since they managed to have like every other RAW taping from Canada for the summer of 1997.

I think a lot of that had to do with being so Northeast/Midwest centric they were in 1993-1995 so much they were running high school gyms and podunk family resorts for Raw and Superstar/Challenge tapings. They had to run other places because they had completely exhausted those markets. Since they had a hardcore following built over several years, selling tickets for PPVs generally wasn't an issue. Everything else during that time? Just a nightmare. Not WCW 1990-1993 levels nightmare, but horrible by WWF standards.

They had a Raw taping at the Fayetteville Crown Coliseum (BTW, the WWE ran that venue tonight IIRC) the night in between the Beware of Dog shows and it looked as full as anything they were doing at the time.

I've made this point before, but the South in general has way more small attendance TV friendly arenas per capita it seems than any region in the US. Maybe it's because so many of the venues built in the 1950s, 1960s, 1970s, and early 1980s still just happen to be around and more geared to the local population. I mean the Nashville Municipal Auditorium, built in 1962, just had a major show and looked full.

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Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie
1 minute ago, Octopus said:

Ok, I paid money so this is what we’re gonna do I stand directly behind you and we hug in a totally wholesome not creepy midwestern prom date kind of way I wear your shirt all the time and like your poster my two favorite posters are the one I have next to my shelf where you’re thinking about what wrestling move your gonna do and the other one I keep next to my human skin lamp where you just won the title and I’m so proud of how far you’ve came I feel like a big brother to you and I paid money so we can take a picture of us hugging. 

Sometimes I wonder about you.

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2 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

Debate me coward

Well, you did summon this so I’m obligated to oblige.

Nickelodeon theme songs do not get the recognition they deserve in comparison to Disney. For every Solange Knowles backed up by Destiny’s Child singing The Proud Family, you have TLC’s All That. Raven Simone on That’s So Raven, Coolio on Kenan and Kel. Hana Montana? The B-52’s did mother fucking Rocco’s Modern Life! Disney had a much better factory to create young culture defining pop stars but Nickelodeon was able to capture theme songs that didn’t need words but could encapsulate the essence of their entire series. Rugrats, Clarissa Explains it All, Doug! The themes were without peers. What is Disney’s answer to the Hey Arnold theme? What slaps that hard? 

You have the floor, @GuerrillaMonsoon.

9 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Sometimes I wonder about you.

in like a, “I wonder what my friend is up to” or a “wonderful, just wonderful” kinda way?

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8 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Well, you did summon this so I’m obligated to oblige.

Nickelodeon theme songs do not get the recognition they deserve in comparison to Disney. For every Solange Knowles backed up by Destiny’s Child singing The Proud Family, you have TLC’s All That. Raven Simone on That’s So Raven, Coolio on Kenan and Kel. Hana Montana? The B-52’s did mother fucking Rocco’s Modern Life! Disney had a much better factory to create young culture defining pop stars but Nickelodeon was able to capture theme songs that didn’t need words but could encapsulate the essence of their entire series. Rugrats, Clarissa Explains it All, Doug! The themes were without peers. What is Disney’s answer to the Hey Arnold theme? What slaps that hard?

*sniffs* Well ACKSHUALLY even if you don't count "na" as a word, which is arguable, the words "way," "cool," and "alright" are heard in the theme to Clarissa Explains it All, which means that TECHNICALLY there are lyrics.

And the Talespin theme is the answer to Hey, Arnold!, you ABSOLUTE PLEBE.

WHY I NEVER

 

 

 

 

 

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
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24 minutes ago, Octopus said:

Well, you did summon this so I’m obligated to oblige.

Nickelodeon theme songs do not get the recognition they deserve in comparison to Disney. For every Solange Knowles backed up by Destiny’s Child singing The Proud Family, you have TLC’s All That. Raven Simone on That’s So Raven, Coolio on Kenan and Kel. Hana Montana? The B-52’s did mother fucking Rocco’s Modern Life! Disney had a much better factory to create young culture defining pop stars but Nickelodeon was able to capture theme songs that didn’t need words but could encapsulate the essence of their entire series. Rugrats, Clarissa Explains it All, Doug! The themes were without peers. What is Disney’s answer to the Hey Arnold theme? What slaps that hard? 

You have the floor, @GuerrillaMonsoon.

Nickelodeon has the range, sure. But does it have the heart?

The heart that comes with Bowling For Soup's "Today Is Gonna Be A Good Day". 

DUCK TALES. Life IS like a hurricane. Here, there or Duckberg. Will you solve a mystery or re-write history today? No, you probably won't, you simp coward, but you can live vicariously through that group of pantless ducks-a-woo-ooo. 

Call Me. Beep Me. Motherfucker.

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1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I enjoy reading articles in which other cultures are bemused by American likes and dislikes w/r/t arts and entertainment. Like when I read an article that compiled Japanese video game enthusiast's general thoughts about how much Americans hate Tingle, for example 

On that note, what would you say confuses, bemuses, and generally tickles the fancy of Japanese wrestling fans about American wrestling fans' pro wrestling likes and dislikes?

The biggest difference I have noticed, though not exactly answering your question, is that a lot of Japanese pro wrestling fans are fans of one particular wrestler or company more so than being fans of wrestling in general. There are exceptions, of course, but my favourite example is how none of my Osaka Pro superfan friends knew who Akiyama or Chono were, but seemed pleased that I was excited to meet them. Then the second time Chono came around they all knew him because he'd been in an Osaka Pro ring before. ?

My general sense is that contentious or strongly opinionated people seem to make your average Japanese person uncomfortable, because it's really important to maintain a polite and comfortable social atmosphere here, generally.

I almost always get a very positive response if I meet another wrestling fan here. Partly, I guess, because I will just communicate how I like the same thing they do. And so on w/r/t music or food or drinking or going to the gym or whatever. 

An openness to learning more seems to be better received than a desire to show off knowledge, as well.

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So, did anyone catch the Lex Luger WWE Biography? You have to give the devils their due, they don't skimp on the down-and-dirty with these things. Basically everyone nails Lugar to the wall as a prick who ends up a drug and booze addled maniac before finding Jebus. Despite all that the man has an absurdly positive vibe coming from him now. I mean he's smiling while talking about being a total fuckup and sitting there semi-paralyzed in a chair. The story of him getting paralyzed is nuts, btw -- he had his head at an angle while conversing on a plane ride and woke up not able to move his body. It's still a mystery. 

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1 hour ago, Octopus said:

Nickelodeon theme songs do not get the recognition they deserve in comparison to Disney. For every Solange Knowles backed up by Destiny’s Child singing The Proud Family, you have TLC’s All That.

The second you said this All That was the first song that popped in my head. I had no idea TLC did it, but was not remotely surprised either when you said that.

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43 minutes ago, Curt McGirt said:

So, did anyone catch the Lex Luger WWE Biography? You have to give the devils their due, they don't skimp on the down-and-dirty with these things. Basically everyone nails Lugar to the wall as a prick who ends up a drug and booze addled maniac before finding Jebus. Despite all that the man has an absurdly positive vibe coming from him now. I mean he's smiling while talking about being a total fuckup and sitting there semi-paralyzed in a chair. The story of him getting paralyzed is nuts, btw -- he had his head at an angle while conversing on a plane ride and woke up not able to move his body. It's still a mystery. 

Yeah I watched it and as you said if you could only summarize it in 4 words Luger was a Prick would be it. The behind scenes of Luger being a prick during the Lex Express showed why they didn't pull the trigger at Summerslam 1993.

I have the Rivals from tonight on the DVR of WWE vs. WCW & it will be interesting to see what crazy spin WWE puts on this one. 

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39 minutes ago, Hail Sabin said:

Yeah I watched it and as you said if you could only summarize it in 4 words Luger was a Prick would be it. The behind scenes of Luger being a prick during the Lex Express showed why they didn't pull the trigger at Summerslam 1993.

I have the Rivals from tonight on the DVR of WWE vs. WCW & it will be interesting to see what crazy spin WWE puts on this one. 

Considering who they strapped up before that (Warrior) and after that (Shawn and you probably could add Bret since he would show his ass sometimes), I don't think being a prick was the real reason. It's likely because it didn't click like they thought it would. I think we already went over Luger being grossly miscast in that role, and I talked about the shortsightedness of the slamming Yokozuna moment. I think this was one of the first instances where they slotted someone to be the next guy, and they chose wrong. Not that Luger couldn't be a solid choice for champion, but the entire construction of it was flawed. I think that's why it is a big sore spot for Prichard whenever he discusses whether or not Luger was ever going to be champion. I think his fury for Meltzer is pretty much pent up frustration that they fucked up big time from the word "go".

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43 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

Did they do the Liz stuff on that Lex show? 

Yep including the 911 call. 

9 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Considering who they strapped up before that (Warrior) and after that (Shawn and you probably could add Bret since he would show his ass sometimes), I don't think being a prick was the real reason. It's likely because it didn't click like they thought it would. I think we already went over Luger being grossly miscast in that role, and I talked about the shortsightedness of the slamming Yokozuna moment. I think this was one of the first instances where they slotted someone to be the next guy, and they chose wrong. Not that Luger couldn't be a solid choice for champion, but the entire construction of it was flawed. I think that's why it is a big sore spot for Prichard whenever he discusses whether or not Luger was ever going to be champion. I think his fury for Meltzer is pretty much pent up frustration that they fucked up big time from the word "go".

The Bus footage was more of him being a prick in a way where you could clearly see after week 1, he didn't want to be on the bus anymore compounded with his lack of not really like being around people then you add in being grossly miscast in that role as you said in the above which in turn makes him come after disingenuous when he meets America. 

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31 minutes ago, Hail Sabin said:

Yep including the 911 call. 

The Bus footage was more of him being a prick in a way where you could clearly see after week 1, he didn't want to be on the bus anymore compounded with his lack of not really like being around people then you add in being grossly miscast in that role as you said in the above which in turn makes him come after disingenuous when he meets America. 

My question though: Why do something like that in first place? I do get it from sort of a PR move, but it's not like Lex didn't have a reputation before going to WWF. Keep in mind, there was a reason why they put Harley with him in WCW. He also had a rep amongst the boys.

Moreover, when Hogan became WWF champion, I could be wrong but I don't remember him going on a glorified one man field trip across the country. He was already a big enough name that he didn't have to do that. Ironically when Lex Luger was doing that, this was around the time when the manager of Riddick Bowe Rock Newman had the bright idea to have the newly crowned HW champ Riddick Bowe grow his name by having him tour the continent of Africa much like Muhammad Ali did decades prior. It was a pretty good idea on paper, but thing is Bowe hadn't earned that. After going through what happened protesting the Vietnam War and losing the HW title, Ali was seen as an absolute hero and a symbol of standing up for your rights. He begrudgingly earned the respect of people here in the USA and was almost godlike in Africa, where you had several countries who had became independent throughout the 1960s and 1970s. Whereas Ali was treated with reverence everywhere he went in Africa, Riddick Bowe basically went on vacation and a sightseeing tour. Add in the fact that Bowe, despite being a hell of a boxer, was never Mr. Charisma to begin with. It's very much parallel to what was going on with Luger. IMO they could have gotten more out of Luger's run with those factors, but they went with in the wrong direction it felt like 95 percent of his time there. You never had that genuine star making or mark out moment on WWF television that you got when he had when he beat Hogan for the WCW title. Nothing even remotely close to that.

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14 minutes ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

My question though: Why do something like that in first place? I do get it from sort of a PR move, but it's not like Lex didn't have a reputation before going to WWF. Keep in mind, there was a reason why they put Harley with him in WCW. He also had a rep amongst the boys.

Moreover, when Hogan became WWF champion, I could be wrong but I don't remember him going on a glorified one man field trip across the country. He was already a big enough name that he didn't have to do that. Ironically when Lex Luger was doing that, this was around the time when the manager of Riddick Bowe Rock Newman had the bright idea to have the newly crowned HW champ Riddick Bowe grow his name by having him tour the continent of Africa much like Muhammad Ali did decades prior. It was a pretty good idea on paper, but thing is Bowe hadn't earned that. After going through what happened protesting the Vietnam War and losing the HW title, Ali was seen as an absolute hero and a symbol of standing up for your rights. He begrudgingly earned the respect of people here in the USA and was almost godlike in Africa, where you had several countries who had became independent throughout the 1960s and 1970s. Whereas Ali was treated with reverence everywhere he went in Africa, Riddick Bowe basically went on vacation and a sightseeing tour. Add in the fact that Bowe, despite being a hell of a boxer, was never Mr. Charisma to begin with. It's very much parallel to what was going on with Luger. IMO they could have gotten more out of Luger's run with those factors, but they went with in the wrong direction it felt like 95 percent of his time there. You never had that genuine star making or mark out moment on WWF television that you got when he had when he beat Hogan for the WCW title. Nothing even remotely close to that.

The best answer I can come up with was in the episode because Vince wanted to prove he could be a king maker & do something no one in WCW thought they could do with Luger thus Vince shows how much better he is which feeds his ego as Bruce and his underlings tell Vince how great he is for that call. 

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3 hours ago, Gordlow said:

The biggest difference I have noticed, though not exactly answering your question, is that a lot of Japanese pro wrestling fans are fans of one particular wrestler or company more so than being fans of wrestling in general.

I've heard this a lot, both about wrestling and culture in general and have always wondered why this is the case. Is it that Japan has a culture that particularly values maximum effort, which extends to hobbies as well? Or do people not have enough free time to be more omnivorous with how they spend it? I realise you also might have no idea.

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8 minutes ago, SturmCRF said:

I've heard this a lot, both about wrestling and culture in general and have always wondered why this is the case. Is it that Japan has a culture that particularly values maximum effort, which extends to hobbies as well? Or do people not have enough free time to be more omnivorous with how they spend it? I realise you also might have no idea.

Yeah. I have never quite been able to figure it out. My best guess is that there are often social groups organised around specific fandoms and those groups are really important to people... but that's really just a guess.

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2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Considering who they strapped up before that (Warrior) and after that (Shawn and you probably could add Bret since he would show his ass sometimes), I don't think being a prick was the real reason. It's likely because it didn't click like they thought it would. I think we already went over Luger being grossly miscast in that role, and I talked about the shortsightedness of the slamming Yokozuna moment. I think this was one of the first instances where they slotted someone to be the next guy, and they chose wrong. Not that Luger couldn't be a solid choice for champion, but the entire construction of it was flawed. I think that's why it is a big sore spot for Prichard whenever he discusses whether or not Luger was ever going to be champion. I think his fury for Meltzer is pretty much pent up frustration that they fucked up big time from the word "go".

Crush, right? It should have been Crush?

But then he would be heel at WM 10 and I don’t recall what drove that particular heel turn either. I wonder if Adams just rubbed people the wrong way, but not bad enough to never get used again.

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1 minute ago, Craig H said:

Crush, right? It should have been Crush?

But then he would be heel at WM 10 and I don’t recall what drove that particular heel turn either. I wonder if Adams just rubbed people the wrong way, but not bad enough to never get used again.

Someone suggested Scott Steiner weeks ago, which wouldn't have been a bad choice. However, he wasn't going to break the team up. 

With Brian Adams, the problem is the Crush vignettes about him liking to crush stuff and the overemphasis on him being Hawaiian probably got him under instead of over. It was way too goofy to be taken seriously. Plus, the never-ending feud with Doink made him look like a doofus so many times.

I don't think Adams had a bad rep with anyone, but he also wasn't a good or great worker. At best, he was barely average. To me, his future tag partner Adam Bomb probably was more equipped for a big role than he was. Clark started off not the greatest of workers either, but he got much better as his career progressed. He had a mini run as Wrath in 1998 that opened some people's eyes. If you look back at the Adam Bomb squash matches on the syndicated shows, he always looked impressive. Crush didn't even get that far. That's why he never really truly went anywhere until he did the jail bird stuff. Hell, even then, it's not that impressive.

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Crush was my absolute favourite wrestler when I was a kid but I only saw WWF PPVs, so that was mainly from thinking he was cool in the magazine. I was eight, the amount of neon in his ring gear went a long way. Having seen more of his matches since then, he is remarkably bad in quite a lot of them, he just doesn't look natural moving around a ring.

The first live wrestling I ever saw was in 93, when my parents took me to Wembley Arena, where they ran back a lot of the Wrestlemania IX matches, including Crush vs Doink. As at Mania, Doink won by underhanded means. After the match, Crush got his heat back and ran off Doink, and his music played. I hopefully ask if that means Crush won, and my Mum, who has never had the slightest interest in wrestling and was probably already flagging at that point, sharply informs me that no, he lost. And that's how Doink The Clown ruined my childhood twice in the space of a few months.

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6 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Putting aside the "person probably smells like a city garbage truck just passed by" personal hygiene aspect, I would say that being in the same picture is much better than the 25,000 feet you were apart before you met said celebrity. Maybe it's because we're in the age where you can incessantly troll celebrities all day long before they block you, but I am more weirded out by the fact people get as excited and have the same respect meeting a name celebrity as they do their city alderman. In the olden days before social media, a celebrity would tell you to fuck off and there would be no picture at all even if was a meet and greet. Either that or their personal security would get in front of you before you tried to confront them. 

After the murder of Christina Grimmie (which by the way, wasn't that long ago), I'm surprised people are allowed to get anywhere near a celebrity of any magnitude. You never know when you're meeting some person who just wrote a manifesto.

I've seen celebs out and being a huge beatles fan have thought about John Lennon and said to myself "some of these people are surprisingly unguarded"

As for meet and greets I've heard that major touring concerts are doing VIP photos socially distanced and with plexiglass  dividers 

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3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Considering who they strapped up before that (Warrior) and after that (Shawn and you probably could add Bret since he would show his ass sometimes), I don't think being a prick was the real reason. It's likely because it didn't click like they thought it would. I think we already went over Luger being grossly miscast in that role, and I talked about the shortsightedness of the slamming Yokozuna moment. I think this was one of the first instances where they slotted someone to be the next guy, and they chose wrong. Not that Luger couldn't be a solid choice for champion, but the entire construction of it was flawed. I think that's why it is a big sore spot for Prichard whenever he discusses whether or not Luger was ever going to be champion. I think his fury for Meltzer is pretty much pent up frustration that they fucked up big time from the word "go".

I've always thought they should have stuck with The Narcisist gimmick for longer as that seemed a much better fit for him, especially with Henan as his manager. 

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11 hours ago, Octopus said:

Wait a minute. If we jumble up the name Pedro is spells Do Pre. Hmmmm. Let’s work on that. Do pre. Dew Pree. Due Pree. Du Pree. Dupree. Dupree? Dupree!

@Pedro is Rene Dupree.

Doe prey.

Yeah, I can see it.

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12 hours ago, Pedro said:

why don't you go out to Chicago and measure for us?

 

12 hours ago, Pedro said:

You sound like you doubt it happened? The pictures are out there for everyone to see, It's trending on twitter yet here everyone seems to paint me the bad guy. Joke about people at Con's not wearing deoderant  it's true I've been there but for fucks sake these people look pretty normal and wanted the experience they paid for.  What is wrong with that?

You are really sensitive about this issue.  I mean, first you say it's six feet, then you say nine feet, then you say ten feet.  Basing all of this on pictures.  I ask for clarification and you respond about how I "sound".  What else do you hear that other people can't?  Are you hearing those things at this moment?

How about you do the diligence to get an accurate picture of what you're actually so angry about and come back with some consistency?

I don't think it's the thread that will get shut down seven days* into the month.

*Or eleven**.

**Or twelve.

Edited by nate
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