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Vince McMahon Retires


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24 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Curious how ppl who believe, like me, that Vince McMahon is an awful human continue to support this product? I don't mean the unconscious cult that cheer 'Thank You Vince' at TV and events, but rather those with a modicum of awareness.

I'm not part of that group, but I'd bet one of two things: pure habit, or the wrestlers themselves. For example, I haven't watched WWE regularly in years at this point, but I myself have had the thought of "Man, I really miss seeing Cesaro/Asuka/Owens/Zayn etc." from time to time.

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1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Curious how ppl who believe, like me, that Vince McMahon is an awful human continue to support this product? I don't mean the unconscious cult that cheer 'Thank You Vince' at TV and events, but rather those with a modicum of awareness.

 

34 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I'm not part of that group, but I'd bet one of two things: pure habit, or the wrestlers themselves. For example, I haven't watched WWE regularly in years at this point, but I myself have had the thought of "Man, I really miss seeing Cesaro/Asuka/Owens/Zayn etc." from time to time.

^^this, but also: detachment.

for example, i love me some Buffalo Wild Wings. I can't tell you who the CEO/owner/etc is, or what kind of person they are. And i don't care. i appreciate the product they offer so i support it. Now, i know that Vince is intimately more tied in with his product than my example, but the point still stands. How many people support sports teams when the owner is front and center but a terrible human being? 

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1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Curious how ppl who believe, like me, that Vince McMahon is an awful human continue to support this product? I don't mean the unconscious cult that cheer 'Thank You Vince' at TV and events, but rather those with a modicum of awareness.

If one tried to only use products/services where the people involved with running/providing them were not problematic, you'd have to live off the grid using hand tools you built with only stuff you made/provided.  It's pretty impossible, so, you compartmentalize and pick the less awful stuff, that's how some people do it.  

 

Vince is garbage, not everyone that shows up on screen is, though.  And yeah, everyone working there knows what Vince is, and "they could just go work elsewhere", but up until about, oh... Jan 1 2019, it was the only place to work in the US to earn serious Pro-sports paychecks (and even then, that alternative filled up fast and isn't without it's own issues).  

 

But ultimately,  people have their own reasons, and that's just thinking aloud. I haven't watched WWE seriously in about 2 years, despite my lack of frothing hatred directed at it gets me called a Vince lickspittle round here, so it might be different for everyone.

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1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Curious how ppl who believe, like me, that Vince McMahon is an awful human continue to support this product? I don't mean the unconscious cult that cheer 'Thank You Vince' at TV and events, but rather those with a modicum of awareness.

I'm one of those people, I watch NXT because at least the roster churn keeps it fresh, mainly avoid Raw and Smackdown, will stick the PPVs on in the background while working. Partly it's because I've loved wrestling for over 32 years, WWE was the most big time version of it for most of that time, and for all their efforts to shit on continuity, it's like a big soap opera that  I've been invested in for most of my life.

As far as Vince specifically, ever since I was wised up to the fact that he was the bastard in charge, and certainly since discovering this board through Big Tony's Sleaze Thread, I've kind of thought of him more as some kind of disgusting lab specimen than an actual human being. He's so patently awful that nothing he's done or been accused of will ever shock me, and I can't really square the idea of taking a moral stance on him, any more than I would a seething bucket full of scorpions, or a chimp that broke into a Viagra factory. The specific crimes he's been accused of aren't funny, but for better or worse, worse I guess as far as reflecting on my own character, I find him grotesquely hilarious, an absurd living horror story about the depths that humanity can reach when you give it any power and a big enough rock to hide under. I probably should cancel my Network subscription, but I won't, because I care about the fake belt they allow to be defended every couple of months, and the child in me is still blown away by the idea of having most of wrestling at my fingertips for a few quid a month.

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39 minutes ago, twiztor said:

for example, i love me some Buffalo Wild Wings. I can't tell you who the CEO/owner/etc is, or what kind of person they are. And i don't care. i appreciate the product they offer so i support it. Now, i know that Vince is intimately more tied in with his product than my example, but the point still stands. How many people support sports teams when the owner is front and center but a terrible human being? 

They're part of the same conglomeration that owns Arby's, Sonic (the drive-in, not the hedgehog), Dunkin', and Jimmy John's.

That would be one strange DoorDash order if you got all five of those at once, come to think of it.

The thought of "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism" creeps into my head as I read this post and see comments about how one can watch WWE, and I'm reminded of my thoughts about separating art from artist - that it's easy to do so when you are not the one targeted by the artist's biases. I have similar thoughts about brand loyalty, product consumption, et cetera.

I don't really care all that much about whether someone watches WWE or not. I don't pay much attention to it, and haven't since they de-emphasized women's exclusive events like the Mae Young Classic, but I've always chalked that up to being a niche viewer. As long as the things I enjoy still exist, I'm not bothered by the chatter about larger organizations.

I can wish people wouldn't support creeps, but I can also do something more productive with my energy than worry about whether people are supporting creeps.

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57 minutes ago, Matt D said:

Also, I bet the board overall puts less money into the WWE’s coffers this year than any previous year on record.

I'm giving AEW 40 bucks tonight.  I got no problem stealing WWE ppvs from sketchy Chinese sites.

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1 hour ago, Raziel said:

If one tried to only use products/services where the people involved with running/providing them were not problematic, you'd have to live off the grid using hand tools you built with only stuff you made/provided.  It's pretty impossible, so, you compartmentalize and pick the less awful stuff, that's how some people do it.  

I appreciate all the replies. To be clear, my decision some 15 plus years ago to no longer watch or support WWE was not morality based. It's been very easy for me not to support WWE in any way since. The above statement is fair and true enough for opposing somebody standing on a soapbox. It's also an easy excuse to ignore facts concerning making better choices.  

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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3 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Curious how ppl who believe, like me, that Vince McMahon is an awful human continue to support this product? I don't mean the unconscious cult that cheer 'Thank You Vince' at TV and events, but rather those with a modicum of awareness.

I personally haven't watched anything other than a youtube clip since the NXT change over cause AEW takes almost all my wrestling watching time. (and I'd rather go to an a live indy show than watch raw) but I kind of feel this way about WWE the corporation. I use a bank and I'm of the feeling that all the big banks are shady. Walmart and McDonalds have shitty business/labor practices but so do most fast food / big box retailers. My point is no matter what no ones hands are completely clean when it comes to what they support with their dollars.

Personally I'm in no rush to ever give him my money again. My personal line for things like this is that I won't pay to see the new Roman Polanski film I might at some point rewatch Rosemary's baby cause it al ready exists

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3 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Curious how ppl who believe, like me, that Vince McMahon is an awful human continue to support this product? I don't mean the unconscious cult that cheer 'Thank You Vince' at TV and events, but rather those with a modicum of awareness.

If my fears of the worst possible news that could come out would come true, it would impact my ability to enjoy the entire sport. 

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I like what both @Raziel and @Stefanie the Human had to say here. In my darker moments, I often reach the conclusion that the idea of "there is no ethical consumption under capitalism" can simply be stopped at "there is no ethical consumption." Unless you exist entirely off the fruit of your own labors and do not pay taxes, odds are good that your money has gone to a person or organization that is morally reprehensible, often on a daily basis. As far as products go, someone or something has probably suffered at one or several points of the line to get it in to your hands. (Or the environment was polluted along the way.) I'm not the smartest person alive so maybe someone understands is better than I do, but I feel there's enough complexity along the modern supply chain that no one person can untangle all of the moral issues involved and/or eliminate all suffering whilst continuing most people's current way of life.

In one of his standup bits, George Carlin once said (I'm mostly paraphrasing) that there are no innocent victims, "your birth certificate is proof of guilt!" When I was younger, I didn't get it. As I've aged, I've started to unfortunately see the sense in it.

To bring it back around to WWE: their roster is filled with extremely talented people, many of whom seem like (ignoring George Carlin) decent human beings who seek to make the world a better place. I'm thinking of folks like Big E, Sami Zayn, just to name two. While I'd love to support them and and I want to continue to see them do well, I couldn't justify giving WWE any money so long as folks like VKM were in charge, and there are deals in place with Saudi Arabia. In order for the cash to get in to the hands of the talent, the corporate juggernaut must take their cut first. Just a bridge too far, for me. 

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16 hours ago, zendragon said:

Over the last couple of years I've read a few books about political reporting. One of the key lessons in reporting in Washington is that anyone who gives you information is doing so for a reason, no none is doing it out of the goodness of their heart. so you have understand everyone has an agenda. It al seems very similar to reporting on professional wrestling  

As a non-political journalist: This is true for every kind of reporting. Nobody wants to talk to a reporter without having some reason to do so. For what I do, the main reason people talk to me is because they want to show they are experts in their field so people give them money. Or they have a product they want to sell. Sometimes it is because they want to defend themselves against bad press. 

I have the benefit of what I write about (pension funds right now) having a paper trail. Things get reported and documented and are available for me to get. 

Wrestling does not have any of that, except for the WWE’s corporate reporting. It’s people passing along rumors for whatever reason they want to. There are news items (hiring and firing and etc.) but the reason behind the “why” is just people passing on their own speculation.

I am pretty convinced that over the years Dave either adds in his own editorializing as to why things get done and it’s done to “confirm” to the audience what they want to hear - HHH was burying people, Daniel Bryan was getting jobbed, etc. Or if he did get someone’s reasoning behind something, he only had the one perspective and didn’t try to get anything more, because you never see any other reasons why beyond something that is usually just the one you can predict.

That’s not to say anything about the Brock thing. People change their minds on things all the time. 

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3 hours ago, Stefanie the Human said:

They're part of the same conglomeration that owns Arby's, Sonic (the drive-in, not the hedgehog), Dunkin', and Jimmy John's.

That would be one strange DoorDash order if you got all five of those at once, come to think of it.

The thought of "there's no ethical consumption under capitalism" creeps into my head as I read this post and see comments about how one can watch WWE, and I'm reminded of my thoughts about separating art from artist - that it's easy to do so when you are not the one targeted by the artist's biases. I have similar thoughts about brand loyalty, product consumption, et cetera.

I don't really care all that much about whether someone watches WWE or not. I don't pay much attention to it, and haven't since they de-emphasized women's exclusive events like the Mae Young Classic, but I've always chalked that up to being a niche viewer. As long as the things I enjoy still exist, I'm not bothered by the chatter about larger organizations.

I can wish people wouldn't support creeps, but I can also do something more productive with my energy than worry about whether people are supporting creeps.

Buffalo Wild Wings as the side, Jimmy John’s sandwich as the main, Arby’s curly fries and the other side, Sonic shake as the drink, and a Dunkin’ Donut as the desert.

I’ll read the rest of your post now.

Edited by Octopus
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Pro Wrestling has always been looked at as the Black Market Sports or Entertainment entity to the media so alot of people through out history have been able to either get away with things or things get swept under the rug or things not get put under the microscope to where it's not an issue to the main stream media. Alot of how Vince has handled other scandals,  let alone his own is  based on how the business has been viewed even as a publicly traded company. Look at how long it took for Velveteen Dream to get released. Not to take heat of Vince but alot of his behavior and even some of his creative output is based off the fact that he knows how the business is looked at and knows he can get away with it or it'll be a non issue after the follow week. That Attitude Era and post Attitude Era of Vince was probably more close of a reflection of him in Real life.

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6 hours ago, Matt D said:

Also, I bet the board overall puts less money into the WWE’s coffers this year than any previous year on record.

Only thing I watch on Peacock is WCW and territories but I know that still makes them money.

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On 7/22/2022 at 6:02 PM, RIPPA said:

This tweet is definitely the product of TK posting on this board

 

He's one of our own.....

 

In all seriousness though TK we need some CBs or we are getting relegated again.... Seriously stop shit posting and get on this.

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10 hours ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Curious how ppl who believe, like me, that Vince McMahon is an awful human continue to support this product? I don't mean the unconscious cult that cheer 'Thank You Vince' at TV and events, but rather those with a modicum of awareness.

 

I mean, this is a fair take but if I was that concerned about never supporting monsters I'd have stopped watching all wrestling years ago. It got its hooks into me young and I don't have it in me to cut it all out of my life.

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9 hours ago, Octopus said:

Buffalo Wild Wings as the side, Jimmy John’s sandwich as the main, Arby’s curly fries and the other side, Sonic shake as the drink, and a Dunkin’ Donut as the desert.

I’ll read the rest of your post now.

What is this, a method for vomiting in multicolor? 

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Fightful on the Vince/Shane blow-up back at the Rumble:

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Vince McMahon said Shane McMahon "Would Never Get Another Pop In WWE"
Shane McMahon has been out of favor with WWE since a chaotic Royal Rumble that left a lot of WWE Superstars generally unhappy completely separate of his involvement.

As reported back in February, Shane McMahon was removed from his involvement in WWE after he attempted to make too many changes to the WWE Royal Rumble match. Brock Lesnar, among others, took issue with the adjustments, and reports of Shane being "unprofessional" emerged. Beyond that, general chaos and confusion about Shane McMahon's number and entrance ensued, resulting in him actually going out when Randy Orton was slated to enter.

Vince McMahon himself was said to have made the decision to part ways with Shane McMahon in a professional capacity in WWE. Those close to Vince noted he went as far as to say Shane "would never get another pop in this company as long as I'm around." That same person said they fully believed that to be in the heat of the moment and that wouldn't necessarily end up being the case. They did say that McMahon's frustration with Shane was "extreme, but justified," and said once Shane McMahon compromised Brock Lesnar's satisfaction with a match, that was the end of the line.

In the aftermath of Vince McMahon retiring, a lot of people who have worked closely near him have been far more willing to speak on situations like these.

I do enjoy that other than being a McMahon, Shane's biggest failing in 30 years off and on in wrestling is trying to book himself to win the Rumble (when he was the best part from the bits I saw). Bless Shane.

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