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Rampage - 7/15/2022


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9 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Undeniably having a large roster means yes they do have talent ready to go in case people are getting hurt left and right. But it's still talent they haven't been doing much with or featuring on TV a lot lately. And when their top stars aren't hurt and back up and running, a lot of people will be left with nothing to do or stuck on Dark or Elevation for months on end.

Okay?

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I'm late (and incomplete) but I am not sorry! My daughters had a ballet recital today, so I had to eff off for the Bunka Kaikan just after the bell rang for the main event. Got to hear Mark Henry tell us there had been enough talk and it was TIME! for the MAIN! EVENT! Which I enjoy every week. The ballet was pretty good. My older daughter can get right up on her toes and stay there while doing stuff, which I find genuinely impressive. I still haven't caught up with PP vs LB but I'm comfortable assuming it was all-action and ended up with Fenix and Penta victorious in a way that moves their beef with Andrade and Roosh forward. And House O'Black vs DO points toward something with Darby and Sting. And a nasty squash moves Ember and Strat closer to fighting some baddies. And we are gonna get Gunns vs Rappers and an exce!!ent ROH title match!  I was entertained. Storylines were advanced. I got to catch my breath before the G1 started. I'm watching - or, I guess, listening to - the G1 as I type. And I  got to look forward to reading all the opinions about the show, too, on my way home. My wife and kids are still at Bunka Kaikan helping with the evening  show. Ballet is not so interesting for me when my girls aren't on the stage. So I'm home now, reading and writing about watching pro wrestling. With wrestling on, in the background. My life is good! Cheers for contributing to that by making this a great place for discussion! (Assuming you have contributed toward that in some way).

Spoiler

Ishii just won the final preliminary tag of night one with a Vertical Drop Brainbuster! Yes! Four good G1 matches up now! Yes!

And I can still look forward to catching up on the Rampage main event!

Edited by Gordlow
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Opening match was fun and the ladies tag squash was pretty good too.

ROH match was good but kinda unexciting.

That main event fell way too messy for me I didn’t really enjoy it at all. Rush interferes and hits Penta in the neck but somehow he’s hitting a Destroyer half a second later?

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I liked how some of the PIP in the ROH match was them chain wrestling. Lee sold the arm well throughout. Tully seemed to honestly appreciate what his charge could do having seen it close up. 

Weirdly, Silver/Reynolds is probably the team I’d like to see matched up against the Bucks the most. They’re both excellent at piecing together moves and spots. I’m not saying I want that more than another FTR vs Butcher/Blade or whatever but if I’ve got to take medicine, that would probably taste like bubble gum.

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9 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Undeniably having a large roster means yes they do have talent ready to go in case people are getting hurt left and right. But it's still talent they haven't been doing much with or featuring on TV a lot lately. And when their top stars aren't hurt and back up and running, a lot of people will be left with nothing to do or stuck on Dark or Elevation for months on end.

This is such a tired argument. You're brain is just too stuck on current day WWE content churn to wrap your head around any other booking philosophy. Leave them wanting more. WWE in the 80s boom used this booking philosophy. Peak Nitro WCW used this booking philosophy. It's valid and useful. You don't burn the audience out on people the way AEW books. They are excited to see them vs feeling like just a guy.

Like we're 3 years in to Dynamite. Darby still feels fresh to me. Hangman still feels fresh to me. Mox still feels fresh to me. Jungle Boy still feels fresh to me. These are all guys that have been featured for the whole 3 years. And none of them are stale. They have a ton of people signed but it's so you don't Dolph Ziggler your roster. Dolph has been around for 20 years and is stale as fuck. But I'd argue dude felt stale 3 years into the Dolph run. It isn't his fault. He wasn't fresh because WWE burn guys out. They run them into the ground and they don't feel special when you see them wrestle 52 TV matches a year.

Miro, Andrade, & Malachi are all still fresh and people want to see more of them. You don't get that desire to see them if they're on TV every single week. You need to stop looking at it from a 'omg they are bloated because Darby doesn't wrestle more than 2 times a month on tv' POV. Because it's a purposeful 'well hey when Darby has matches on TV people are excited to see him and not burnt our by seeing him do all his signature moves every single week like WWE' style of booking.

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9 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This is such a tired argument. You're brain is just too stuck on current day WWE content churn to wrap your head around any other booking philosophy. Leave them wanting more. WWE in the 80s boom used this booking philosophy. Peak Nitro WCW used this booking philosophy. It's valid and useful. You don't burn the audience out on people the way AEW books. They are excited to see them vs feeling like just a guy.

Like we're 3 years in to Dynamite. Darby still feels fresh to me. Hangman still feels fresh to me. Mox still feels fresh to me. Jungle Boy still feels fresh to me. These are all guys that have been featured for the whole 3 years. And none of them are stale. They have a ton of people signed but it's so you don't Dolph Ziggler your roster. Dolph has been around for 20 years and is stale as fuck. But I'd argue dude felt stale 3 years into the Dolph run. It isn't his fault. He wasn't fresh because WWE burn guys out. They run them into the ground and they don't feel special when you see them wrestle 52 TV matches a year.

Miro, Andrade, & Malachi are all still fresh and people want to see more of them. You don't get that desire to see them if they're on TV every single week. You need to stop looking at it from a 'omg they are bloated because Darby doesn't wrestle more than 2 times a month on tv' POV. Because it's a purposeful 'well hey when Darby has matches on TV people are excited to see him and not burnt our by seeing him do all his signature moves every single week like WWE' style of booking.

I'm not saying feature the same people on TV every week, but to have them disappear for months on end is a problem. 

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9 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

I'm not saying feature the same people on TV every week, but to have them disappear for months on end is a problem. 

Fair enough. Have any specific talents you're referring to? Because most often there's a reason when people disappear. Like Miro being out with his quad injury. And Samoa Joe being out to film Twisted Metal. And a bunch more like that. Anyone you can think of that just disappeared for months with no purpose you want to use as a jumping off point?

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Just now, TheVileOne said:

Ruby Soho basically disappeared from cable TV after she lost the TBS title tournament to Jade Cargill. She didn't get back on Rampage or Dynamite again until the Owen Hart tournament in April.

She was on Dark and Elevation though, that isn't just vanishing. I respect your view Vile but I think you hold Dark/Elevation in lower regard than they should be held.

 

They aren't WWE Main Event or Heat circa 2006, this is your 98 Worldwide and 04 Velocity.

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24 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

This is my my opinion, but I think it's a problem if you go from title matchups to Dark/Elevation for three months. 

She came in hot off the casino, made it to the finals of the TBS championship tournament on that momentum and then lost. From there, won constantly on Dark so when she came back on TV, she had a strong win-loss record, built up a nice team with Anna Jay and momentum from straight wins, coming right back into the thick of getting to the final of another tournament.

Doesn't seem like it was a problem.

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Thinking about it more, I get a lot of joy out of Rey Fenix, and little to none out of Penta.

Private Party needs to break away from being lackeys for rich dudes. I’ve seen them mentioned prominently in the Excursion thread, but even just a refresh in ROH could do wonders for them. Get them away from JR talking shit about Silly String.

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14 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

Athena was laying that shit in!!

Yeah, she wasn't playing around lol nice little squash for her and Statlander. The build to the eventual clash with Jade and the Baddies has been good.

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2 hours ago, TheVileOne said:

Ruby Soho basically disappeared from cable TV after she lost the TBS title tournament to Jade Cargill. She didn't get back on Rampage or Dynamite again until the Owen Hart tournament in April.

I do think they need to find a better balance of showcasing the women. It's harder to defend the women disappearing because of it too. On an average week of AEW tv they run either 9 or 10 matches. Only two of them a week are women's matches. So yeah I get it.

But when you start factoring in promos the number of women on tv go up. Same with Dark & Elevation. While Ruby may not be having matches on Dynamite in that time, she's still having matches. She's getting to work in front of the live audience. People that want to see her work can still see her wrestling new matches by clicking on You Tube. She still gets tv promos peppered in during those weeks she doesn't wrestle. She's been part of multiple Eddie Kingston stories and had segments building up to future tags with Britt and stuff.

But even in this case, when she came back to be a part of The Owen she was fresh & the tv audience was excited to see her. Compare that Natalya challenging Rousey after not having much of a tv presence and people were not excited to see her. It's just something you're going to have to accept if you're going to enjoy AEW. A very small portion of the roster is constantly on 100% of the tv episodes. They rotate. Can they do better at it than they do? Yes. But what they're doing isn't going away. It's an active conscious choice.

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15 hours ago, Dog said:

But the roster's too bloated! ?

It is bloated (and WWE is too) and that Youtube stuff doesn't matter aside from getting people reps.

All these injuries and they still can't find time for more than one woman's match per TV show.

I thought the show was decent if a little disjointed.

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43 minutes ago, zendragon said:

My only issue with the roster size is that the shows can feel like they are going a mile a minute trying to cram enough segments in to get everyone their tv time

I love that about AEW. No wasted moments.

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Just now, Dog said:

I love that about AEW. No wasted moments.

It's a matter of degrees. For instance, I think they should have let Claudio coming out sink in for another 30-45 seconds last night. It doesn't need to be much but just a little more even if that means they can do one less backstage interview or video package sometimes. But, of course, then we want more video packages to put over what happens on Dark or introducing Japanese guys or whatever.

So there's no right answer, except for maybe the World Title match for the upcoming PPV is a little more important than some other things, right?

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SATURDAY REFLECTIONS:  I like the John Silver and Brodie King section of the opener.  I like that it leads up to Alex Reynolds fighting for his AEW career, taking an assbeating like a CHAMP.  Reynolds is better than Stu Grayson and Alan Angels, though he isn't as flashy as they are.  He is like Malakai Black- always in the right place and can really work.  I love the preposterously elaborate set-up to Reynolds getting slaughtered by Brodie's Lariat and the EVEN MORE ELABORATE set-up to get up Brodie getting German Suplexed With A Bridge to set up the Van Daminator by Malakai Black.  I wonder who is planning out these straight up lucha situations for this match.  Dean Malenko?  Maybe Andrade is coaching them.  Maybe it's John Silver since they always have something elaborate when he is in a match.  Either way, it's cool.  Awww, Jonathan Gresham's last title match.  The beginning of Lee Moriarty becoming a desperate wrestler is fun.  I await Moriarty's reaction to Matt Sydel turning on him.  Gresham needs to be the next in a long line of wrestler's that take after the Spoiler/Super Destroyer Don Jardine.  Don't cheat, just be a complete dick and make the crowd hate you because you are so good and YOU know you are so good.  I love that this match is the Friday night match they set up on TV the previous Saturday afternoon.  I love the territory feel of the ROH stuff so far.  I guess they are going to be pieces of the PURE Division after Claudio takes the title.  That was some workrate technical wrestling.  Very much like World of Sport in speed.   Tully is great using the term "scientific" to describe Gresham.  If they want to go completely territorial, they could have Gresham steal a pin by CHEATING via Tully Blanchard and have Claudio actually chase the belt.  That would be fun.  But Claudio is definitely winning first time out.  No doubt about it.  HEY!  I think that was Ashley D'Ambroise in the back of the Baddies Section.  Man,  Charlette or Robin Renegade took the O Face like a KING. Every week, I watch OVW wrestling when I feel like fast forwarding A LOT and I watch the ladies matches.  Leila Grey, who is the OVW champion as of the last episode they showed on NXT LVL network,  is either not very good in the ring or she is just in with gals who are really uncarryable.  I'm glad she's getting her shot- which I'm thinking is based on making me feel really really old than how good she is in the ring.  We'll see.  Maybe if you put her in the ring with Toni Storm, she'll rise to the occassion.  Hopefully.  I just realized that Isiah Kassidy did a regular Tope while MArq Quen hits the Tope Con Hilo- as Isiah didn't actually want to try to match the crazy athleticism of Quen.  The crowd gets WAY into PENTA getting giant wads of heat beaten on him while YOU had to watch picture in picture.  The Lucha Brothers are over in Savannah- because Savannah is the greatest wrestling town in the South.  Marq Quen is great beating the fuck out of PENTA.  Isiah is good gathering up the heel heat needed to get the crowd behind our babyface comeback.  Man, I wish they would bring in Dragon Lee already so we can experience Dragon Lee vs Rey Fenix.  This match is super old school Southern as they have a second heat segment on Rey.  PENTA screwing up the hot tag kill some of the momentum of the match but the Canadian Destroyer counter to whatever Quen was attempting set up the first Steiner Squaredriver I've seen in prolly ten years.  That was a good episode.  Poor Jonathan Gresham....

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Statlander and Athena beat up a couple of jobbers. Then another jobber. Then the heels run out for the save, womp them and send them packing. Unless you're doing the double turn, it made the faces look like losers. Don't feel as though they progressed the interim-baddy angle as much as they could have here.

Main event finish was also pretty lame. Heels run in behind the refs back and succeed in interfering, only for it to be no-sold and the faces win anyway. Private Party look like losers for not being able to capitalize. Rush and Andrade look like losers for not being able to execute a run-in properly. Not even sure the Lucha Bros look great going 50/50 with Private Party either. Sort of early 2010s John Cena overcoming the impossible odds on a throwaway Raw main event type finish.

I liked the tag opener - I think they've done a great job of building up to the House of Black vs Sting and Darby program, and I'm really looking forward to it. So much more left to do with it.

Gresham's Octopus persona I think needs to go with the heel turn. It's a cool idea that's terribly executed - as much ridicule as Randy Orton gets for the Viper mannerisms, he lives the character, his mannerisms leak into his in-ring movements, his entrance, it makes a casual viewer understand why they call him the Viper (and of course Michael Cole mentions it a million times). Gresham wearing the mask and stomp-marching down the ramp looks like a cross between Pugsley Addams and Louise Belcher as rascal upstart kid up to no good about to star in a straight to DVD Daddy Day Care sequel doesn't lean into the idea that this guy is going to stretch you and you be all over you the minute the bell sounds. I think leaning into the Tully influence is a welcome improvement, as the sleazy little guy working underneath that never seems to be working from a disadvantage. Still think he's a dork though and needs to go away with Matt Sydal somewhere and never return. I want more Lee Moriarty. That guy has potential, speaking of guys who work from underneath - he has that Bret like quality of taking a beating and you buy in to watching him be able to make his comeback.

 

 

Edited by GuerrillaMonsoon
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13 hours ago, Matt D said:

It's a matter of degrees. For instance, I think they should have let Claudio coming out sink in for another 30-45 seconds last night. It doesn't need to be much but just a little more even if that means they can do one less backstage interview or video package sometimes. But, of course, then we want more video packages to put over what happens on Dark or introducing Japanese guys or whatever.

So there's no right answer, except for maybe the World Title match for the upcoming PPV is a little more important than some other things, right?

Personally (and I know this is probably a network request) I'd shave little match time. Sometimes it seems like matches go long for the sake of going long. Then let stuff sink in, let wrestler b respond to wrestler a's promo later in the show instead of the endless interruptions ect

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