Jump to content

July 2022 Wrestling Discussion


Recommended Posts

I'm amazed at this WrestleMania 5 naysaying. I think that was one of my favourites of the earlier Manias all told (partly because I think most of the early Manias are dross) but also because I think Savage/Hogan is largely excellent, Rude/Warrior and Rockers/Twin Towers are very good, and yes, Haku/Herc is a good match.

If I had to rank the first 10 Manias, just off the top of my head, I think I'd go-

1. 10
2. 7
3. 3
4. 8
5. 5
6. 6
7. 2
8. 9
9. 1
10. 4

5, 6 and 8 I think are of roughly the same quality.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hey, speaking of Mania, I finished watching Mania 3 over the weekend as part of my "watch all this old shit in chronological order for nostalgia purposes until the nostalgia wears off probably around Mania 9" thing.  As always, here are some random thoughts for you to read or skip, YMMV.

Hart Foundation and Danny Davis vs Bulldogs and Tito: Pretty good match but hell, it's the Harts and Bulldogs.  They can do "pretty good" in their sleep (or more likely on somas).  Was Danny Davis a wrestler before he became a ref turned wrestler?  Heels cheat to win and all the announcers completely miss the megaphone shot.

Butch Reed vs Koko B. Ware: Man, WWE music licensing is all over the place.  They use Real American but not Don't Go Messin' with a Country Boy, and here they actually air The Bird by MORRIS DAY AND THE TIME (yes, all caps when you say their name!).  So bizarre.  Real nothing match where Reed cheats to win and then Tito runs him off and beats up Slick to start a house show thing, I guess.

IC Title - Savage vs Steamboat: this right here was awesome, obviously.  Both guys are on a whole 'nother level and it's not just the best match of this Mania, but probably the best match of the first four or five Manias, if not more.  Just well ahead of its time and I don't care if they planned the match move for move and quizzed each other on it in the middle of the night with random phone calls.  My only beef is the finish; Steamboat should have won clean.  Instead, we get a truly weird role reversal where the heel gets a visual pin and then the babyface wins via interference.  This was a damn fine match and needed that like a delicious sundae needs a turd on top.  I have opinions on the veracity of the story that Hogan felt dissed at the afterparty and killed Steamboat's push for it, but that's another post for another time.

HTM vs Jake: Competent match between two pros.  HTM wins with a rollup to, say it with me, probably save something for the house shows.  The rollup was all kinds of screwy with Jimmy Hart interfering in full view of the ref and then Jake going off kilter and needing to shimmy back into position for the hold-the-ropes pin.  Damien shenanigans after the match and my wife feels bad for the clearly traumatized snake.

Sheik and Volkoff vs Killer Bees: Duggan stops Volkoff from singing because American is free.  What?  Anyhoo, this is just a whatever match, famous because it's the one Sheik is talking about when he goes off on Blair, suplexes, camel clutches, and humbling men using the old country methodology of forced anal.  Bees are sporting dorky crossfit kneesocks, and some sweet Nikes that need to come back.  I've seen three Bees matches in this quest so far and B.Brian Blair is committed to the gimmick, desperately trying to get over waving his arms like a bee.  Duggan can't resist hitting his IRL weed smoking buddy with a 2x4 and why the fuck can't we get any clean finishes on this show holy fuck.

Hogan/Andre: like Savage/Steamboat, what more can be written about this?  It's all spectacle and that's fine.  Andre is damn near immobile and Hogan has to play the role of smaller guy bumping all around him, with the exception of two unexpected slams by Andre.  Crazy-long bearhug heat segment at one point.  Surprised Hogan could still run the ropes and do a legdrop after tearing all his back muscles slamming the 800lb Andre.  Not much else to say...this match did what it was supposed to do w/r/t mythmaking.

Mania 4 is next because I watched Survivor Series 87 out of order and I think I commented on it last month maybe.  Thanks for reading if you did.  🙂

 

Edited by Technico Support
  • Like 7
  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

I'm amazed at this WrestleMania 5 naysaying. I think that was one of my favourites of the earlier Manias all told (partly because I think most of the early Manias are dross) but also because I think Savage/Hogan is largely excellent, Rude/Warrior and Rockers/Twin Towers are very good, and yes, Haku/Herc is a good match.

If I had to rank the first 10 Manias, just off the top of my head, I think I'd go-

1. 10
2. 7
3. 3
4. 8
5. 5
6. 6
7. 2
8. 9
9. 1
10. 4

5, 6 and 8 I think are of roughly the same quality.

I'd go:

1. X.

2. VIII.

3. III.

4. VII.

5. V.

6. VI.

7. IV.

8. II.

9. I.

10. IX.

Edited by The Natural
Link to comment
Share on other sites

WrestleMania X is in my top five WrestleMania of all time with X-Seven, XIX, XXIV and XXX.

WrestleMania IX is still my pick for the worst WrestleMania of all time. The rest of the bottom five is made up of I, XI, XV and XXIX.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not so different from mine, Natch.

For a long time I thought 9 was just the worst shit ever but watching it back, I think it's one of those things that actually becomes better when divorced from the time period. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's still the drizzling shits and still has an ending that makes me angry, but none of the matches are really outright bad (from memory), and it has a cool and memorable look at least. 4 is just soul-destroying and 1 is kind of the anti-9 in that at the time it probably was cool but watched in hindsight without the sense of being part of this 'moment in time', it's actually petty worthless.

To reiterate though, WrestleMania 9 sucks.

As an addendum, do you @The Natural(you might have been too young) or any of the other Brits ( @AxB, @SturmCRF, @Sky Blue Samet al) remember Bret going on, I think it would have been Live and Kicking shortly after WrestleMania 9 and basically calling out the WWF (in kayfabe) for allowing the end of WrestleMania 9 to go down the way it did? He was like, 'yeah, I told Hogan to go for the belt but I assumed the officials would look at the footage afterwards and realise the injustice that had been done and reverse the decision'.

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

3 minutes ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

Not so different from mine, Natch.

For a long time I thought 9 was just the worst shit ever but watching it back, I think it's one of those things that actually becomes better when divorced from the time period. I mean, don't get me wrong, it's still the drizzling shits and still has an ending that makes me angry, but none of the matches are really outright bad (from memory), and it has a cool and memorable look at least. 4 is just soul-destroying and 1 is kind of the anti-9 in that at the time it probably was cool but watched in hindsight without the sense of being part of this 'moment in time', it's actually petty worthless.

To reiterate though, WrestleMania 9 sucks.

As an addendum, do you @The Natural(you might have been too young) or any of the other Brits ( @AxB, @SturmCRF, @Sky Blue Samet al) remember Bret going on, I think it would have been Live and Kicking shortly after WrestleMania 9 and basically calling out the WWF (in kayfabe) for allowing the end of WrestleMania 9 to go down the way it did? He was like, 'yeah, I told Hogan to go for the belt but I assumed the officials would look at the footage afterwards and realise the injustice that had been done and reverse the decision'.

Great minds think alike so the saying goes, @Yo-Yo's Roomie.

WrestleMania IX is my worst WrestleMania for what happened with Bret Hart and fucking Hulk Hogan. Pissed me off then as an 8 year old and more through the years. Trying to remember Bret going on Live and Kicking.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I just watched nine recently.

It's still awful, but I did find the gem of JR's dry run (I believe he was already calling post WM stuff on Challenge tapings with Heenan) where he does the El Matador and Papa Shango dark match before the PPV. It's extremely insightful on the bullshit commentators have to go through because you can hear him going back and forth with Bruce in the headset as he's calling the match. He get audibly pissed at Bruce for not feeding him the correct info. 

It's strange that something like that would even be uploaded to the network. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

28 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Hart Foundation and Danny Davis vs Bulldogs and Tito: Pretty good match but hell, it's the Harts and Bulldogs.  They can do "pretty good" in their sleep (or more likely on somas).  Was Danny David a wrestler before he became a ref turned wrestler?  Heels cheat to win and all the announcers completely miss the megaphone shot.

Davis wrestled as Mr. X, normally he would work the first match as Mr. X then ref a few matches later in the card.

  • Thanks 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

Is this the Jimmy Garvin fancam or is that different?  At one point years ago, I had a backstage fancam supposedly shot by Garvin that outed some of the talent’s drinking, drugging, and womanizing.  It’s been so long since I saw it that I barely remember what is on it, but a decade or two ago, it was considered sort of shocking.  Supposedly, some of the locker room was unhappy Garvin shot it and let it get out.

 

 

This is the footage from Jimmy Garvin's camcorder backstage on the Bash 88 tour

 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

WWE released Curtis Axel and Ariya Daivari. They were brought in to produce matches.

Vince Mcmahon is now more involved in creative for Smackdown since stepping down as Ceo and Chairman.

  • Like 1
  • Sad 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I go back and forth on WM IX.  It's mostly garbage but I do love the outdoor setting, staging and interview areas.  I think most people hate it the most because of Hogan bullshit and who can blame them. It's the absolute worst but it does make King of the Ring 1993 all the sweeter when Yokozuna buries Hulkamania and then Bret puts on a masterclass in the tournament.

@Yo-Yo's Roomie

You didn't mention Mr. Perfect vs. Blue Blazer. Another gem on that WMV card. Listen, the commentary on that show is on another level too. I am a guy where commentary matters a great deal and Ventura is on fire all night. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Ventura and Gorilla were amazing on commentary together.  You get the vibe they're good friends and some of the stuff they say to each other is hilarious.  On at least two occasions, Ventura jokes about Monsoon's career "fifty years ago" which was amazing.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:


As an addendum, do you @The Natural(you might have been too young) or any of the other Brits ( @AxB, @SturmCRF, @Sky Blue Samet al) remember Bret going on, I think it would have been Live and Kicking shortly after WrestleMania 9 and basically calling out the WWF (in kayfabe) for allowing the end of WrestleMania 9 to go down the way it did? He was like, 'yeah, I told Hogan to go for the belt but I assumed the officials would look at the footage afterwards and realise the injustice that had been done and reverse the decision'.

I don't remember that, I watched a bit of Live & Kicking but I preferred Fully Booked, it had Zoe Ball, a hotel theme and a talking cow. I do remember Bulldog being on one of those shows and giving a fairly ambiguous answer to the whole 'is it real?'  question.

I loved Mania IX despite hating Hogan, because of the whole outdoor, ancient history atmosphere. Obviously KOTR 93 is better though, as the matches are good and the Yoko/Hogan feud gets its happy ending.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Anyone else feel they should have had a hint or some type of storyline leading into Lex turning face with USS Intrepid Fourth of July bodyslamming Yoko angle? Or was Lex as the next Hogan always DOA?

I mean he is still treated as a heel on the syndicated shows that weekend, which means he was a heel on TV with absolutely no hint of a turn the same day he was slamming Yoko.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

That all begs the question, what IS the WORST WrestleMania of all time??

I have a few candidates floating around in my head but I'd like to hear more thoughts from the board.

I even like the "bad" WMs from the earlier days. Does WM IX kinda suck? I guess, but I enjoy it.

I think once WM hit like 24 or 25, they became these slogs full of matches that I don't remember anything about, so probably one of the ones from the last ten years would be the one that I thought was the worst, though I think the last one I saw was WM 32 and I also remember it being this painful shitfest, like six hours of crap. So maybe that one. IX might have sucked, but it was over in three hours at least. 

I think 30's the only modern WM (if we're counting "modern" as post-Attitude Era when the company started to mold itself into a sterile corporate product machine) that was legitimately good. 21 was pretty solid, too. The rest of them just blend together for me. 

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

The first Wrestlemania , if the card wasn't booked as if it was a random house show and booked to be one of the best cards then it could have been one of the best Early Wrestlemanias. When I first started watching TV and MSG and other big cards that showed up on Classic on Demand and stuff like that,  alot of the pre and post Wrestlemania shows we're really good. Valentine, Tito, Orndorf , Orton, Adonis , Snuka a ton of other guys were really fun to watch. Wrestlemania was purposely booked not to feature matches between guys that were in Active programs against each other outside of Studd and Andre and the Main Event and even then you had Orton and Snuka not even in matches that could have filled up the card

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

I hated that as an 11 year old, let me tell you.

Also, here's the most fun Mr. X match ever.

 

Here is my little fantasy booking the territory scenario: If you must have Luger as the Hulk Hogan replacement, you need to place Luger and Yokozuna within one or two degrees of each other. I see it where Lex and Yoko are tagging against Duggan (who Yoko was programmed with around that time) and maybe like Virgil or someone perfectly disposable as the feature match on Superstars two or three weeks out from the Stars and Stripes Challenge.

The layout for the match isn’t as important as the post-match. The finish would be Luger laying out Virgil with the loaded forearm of doom. Afterwards, Luger starts doing his lame Narcissist posing to the hard cam. Meanwhile, Duggan is checking on the unconscious Virgil. Out of nowhere, Yoko attacks Duggan and then drags him over to the corner. Totally oblivious to what’s going on, Luger continues posing on the other side of the ring. Fuji motions Yoko to go up, and Yoko demolishes Duggan with a Banzai Drop. Luger turns around sort of bewildered just as Yoko is getting off top of a seriously hurt Duggan. Fuji then motions Yoko to go up again for another Banzai Drop. Luger goes over to Fuji and asks Fuji what the hell is going on. Yoko doesn’t give a damn and hits Duggan with a second Banzai Drop. Duggan is basically a pancake at this point. Fuji brushes off Luger and says Yoko isn’t done yet. Yoko goes up again and just before he is going to deliver a career ending and possibly fatal(!) third Banzai drop, Luger dives in and shields our fallen hero Hacksaw Jim Duggan. Yoko gets angry, climbs down, and starts yelling at Lex and Lex argues back. Then, Fuji decides they still aren’t done. Fuji wants Luger to prove his loyalty to these anti-Americans and deliver one last loaded forearm to an already half dead Duggan. Fuji motions Yoko to pick up Duggan, and Yoko obliges. Lex looks to the crowd in order to see what he should do. He plays up the moral dilemma huge. The crowd obviously doesn’t want him to do it.  Vince of course oversells the shit out of it on commentary saying, “Don’t do it, Lex! No! No!”. Lex brings up his forearm and sort of looks at it. He puts it down. Then, he exits the ring and heads to the back in disgust. Yoko is totally confused by Lex’s actions.

Then, the following Raw two days later, you have Jim Ross do a sitdown with Lex at his home in Atlanta and asks why he did what he did. You don’t have Lex do the typical halfway babyface interview. You have Lex say that why he isn’t friends with Duggan or Virgil at all, he was completely disgusted by the actions of Yokozuna and Mr. Fuji. They had already won the match, and they proved they were the better men. It was completely uncalled for. When it comes down to it, at the end of the day, he is still a proud, red blooded American and couldn’t stand by to watch Yoko do that or contribute anymore to it. For his final question, Ross asks if Luger will show up for the Stars and Stripes Challenge on July 4. Luger just says he doesn’t know. He honestly cannot answer Jim’s question because he doesn’t know if the fans will accept him after KOing people with his loaded forearm for months now or being egotistic. He also doesn’t know if he can realistically bodyslam the WWF World Champion Yokozuna. However, if he isn’t there, he would like someone to humble Yokozuna and do the deed in his absence.

You play up the “Is Lex going show up on July 4” on Raw and the syndicated shows heavily. Boom. You have an instant mega babyface when this dude shows up and bodyslams Yokozuna.

  • Like 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

4 hours ago, Yo-Yo's Roomie said:

I'm amazed at this WrestleMania 5 naysaying. I think that was one of my favourites of the earlier Manias all told (partly because I think most of the early Manias are dross) but also because I think Savage/Hogan is largely excellent, Rude/Warrior and Rockers/Twin Towers are very good, and yes, Haku/Herc is a good match.

If I had to rank the first 10 Manias, just off the top of my head, I think I'd go-

1. 10
2. 7
3. 3
4. 8
5. 5
6. 6
7. 2
8. 9
9. 1
10. 4

5, 6 and 8 I think are of roughly the same quality.

Not really dissing WMV per se, even the clipped version off TV was watched SO many times over the years! I remember how elated I was when the show started, as the tv-guide didn't specify WrestleMania V, just Wrestling Main Event for 3 hours! That was a good Saturday!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Fuck Lex, they shoulda had SCOTTY STEINER bodyslam Yokozuna. Strap the rocket to him, put Rick in the IC title mix if you have to in order to get Scott to agree to it.

Yeah, I've said this before, I know.

I like Lex Luger, too! But Scott Steiner, though. 

  • Like 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

1 minute ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Fuck Lex, they shoulda had SCOTTY STEINER bodyslam Yokozuna. Strap the rocket to him, put Rick in the IC title mix if you have to in order to get Scott to agree to it.

Yeah, I've said this before, I know.

I like Lex Luger, too! But Scott Steiner, though. 

Scott was one of their choices, but he didn't want to break up the team. Everytime they tried to break up the team, he said no.

They had way more invested in Lex considering he did not wrestle for basically eight or nine months while signed with WWF.

  • Like 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
 Share

×
×
  • Create New...