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July 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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9 hours ago, Mister TV said:

Not really sure if Vince Sr. firing Hogan is bs or not, but Hogan was winding down his run in the WWF when he went off to film Rocky III and would have been gone sometime in the summer of 1981. Hogan's feud with Andre had wrapped up and he was putting over Tony Atlas, back then once a heel was done with their run against Backlund or in Hogan's case Andre they'd put over a babyface the next level down on the way out.

The take that Vern "refused" to put the AWA title on Hogan is a huge over simplification of what went down. Sure Verne was old school and initially did want the belt on a "non-wrestler" like Hogan, but the dude was mega over so Verne tried to milk the chase as long as possible. Next there was the issue with Hogan working New Japan and Verne being tied in with All-Japan, if Hogan was AWA Champ Verne would have wanted a cut of Hogan's Japan money which is why at times Hogan has claimed he didn't even want the AWA belt. There's also the whole Verne screwing over Hogan on t-shirt money.

If Vince Jr. never came calling Hogan would have been a Japan first guy like Brody, the money over there was great and he would have gotten nice payday's in the US as a special attraction. 

Thanks for explaining that. It adds a lot of context and things I didn't know.

Can I clarify - in the Death of the Territories book, Vince Snr didn't want to have him back because he thought the appearance in Rocky III exposed kayfabe more than it needed to. Was that also just a decent excuse to explain his departure or there some legit dissatisfaction over him doing the role despite Vince Snr not wanting him to?

I think you've explained the AWA stuff far better than I ever could. 

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5 hours ago, Technico Support said:

Hogan in the Brody spot, Hulking up and no-selling Gonzalez in '88?

Hogan getting his stabbing back a few weeks later after mailbags of get well soon cards.

Gonzalez supposed to get the third stabbing but Hogan left the island before that could happen.

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The group management and team effort that was set up is now in effect for WWE. Steph and Nick will plot the course of WWE going forward.

Wonder if either Bruce or Triple H becomes head of creative. And if Dunn gets the Gorilla position merged with his camera stuff.

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1 hour ago, Blue Dragon said:

The group management and team effort that was set up is now in effect for WWE. Steph and Nick will plot the course of WWE going forward.

....Right.

You need to treat this like when Batista's regime in Cuba fell in 1959 and Fidel put a temporary government in place. The amount of backstabbing that is about to occur will rival that of a goddamn daytime soap opera. Things are about to be fluid.

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2 hours ago, Blue Dragon said:

Wonder if either Bruce or Triple H becomes head of creative. And if Dunn gets the Gorilla position merged with his camera stuff.

Don't think this part is feasible. Dunn needs to be in the truck to direct. He needs to see the cameras he's switching to every .43 seconds, can't do that from Gorilla. He also has no real wrestling experience. His experience is production. So he wouldn't be in the head wrestling position directing wrestlers on what to do in matches and directing how the commentary team tells the stories. He's a nuts and bolts guy, not a creative guy. Bruce as current head of creative will have that seat.

Well until things settle down & Steph / Triple H purge the old guard.

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12 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Dunn needs to be in the truck to direct. He needs to see the cameras he's switching to every .43 seconds, can't do that from Gorilla

I’ve said it before: no way is Dunn verbally readying and calling cuts.  He’d sound like an auctioneer and nobody could follow it.  Likely the whole thing is run by software or maybe a methed-out monkey strapped to a chair.

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6 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I’ve said it before: no way is Dunn verbally readying and calling cuts.  He’d sound like an auctioneer and nobody could follow it.  Likely the whole thing is run by software or maybe a methed-out monkey strapped to a chair.

5:45 mark or so. We don’t see this sort of thing often :

 

 

 

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32 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

I’ve said it before: no way is Dunn verbally readying and calling cuts.  He’d sound like an auctioneer and nobody could follow it.  Likely the whole thing is run by software or maybe a methed-out monkey strapped to a chair.

With how frequent the cuts are you're probably right. He might not be calling out what's up next and readying them like the AEW truck clip Matt D posted. Highly likely he just has the switchboard in front of him and presses on the changes without readying the camera. They might just have a system where everyone is to assume the shot is theirs at all times or something. I'm sure he communicates and calls out instructions but he might just be mashing a board like Ray Charles on a piano.

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It will be interestingly to see how the company develops over the next year or two.  I think we’ll see small positive changes - announcers seeming more natural; changes in the lingo; experiments with pushing guys who are small, don.’t have a good look, etc.  I am not convinced the product will get noticeably better.  Maybe it will, but it’s really unclear who replaces Vince as the creative director.  Pritchard?  Trips?  Heyman?  I’m not too interested in those options or any of the others I can think of.  

I feel like Stephanie and Paul might course-correct and try to implement their vision of NXT on the main roster, but I’m hoping they don’t.  Super-Indy NXT worked well when the indies had a lot of untapped talent, but worked less well after Samoa Joe, Zayn, Claudio, etc. came and went.  Did anyone really want to see the Undisputed Era or Johnny Gargano pushed hard on the main roster?  I like Cole and Gargano more then most but I never thought that was going to work. 

Heyman has booked some quality stuff over the years but he’s also booked a lot of awful stuff.  Personally, I didn’t think the good stuff in ECW is worth sitting through the garbage.  I’m a big fan of his year in OVW and, to a lesser extent, his time with the Smackdown Six, but he hasn’t done a lot of booking since and that was 15-20 years ago.  Quite possible he’s out of touch too.  I thought his short time running Raw a few years back was bad.

It will be interesting.  I think Vince is probably done forever  with both management and creative, but he’s still the largest shareholder so until he sells, it is still his company.  I’ve come across quite a few companies in my job that basically catered to the wishes of the largest shareholders regardless of who was CEO and regardless of how determined management was not to be their puppets.  At least some of Vince’s vision for the company will probably remain intact until the McMAhon’s sell their shares or Vince dies,

I think the commonly is too profitable and too diversified to collapse anytime soon, but a sharp decline wouldn’t surprise me.  Vince has done a terrible, irresponsible job of preparing the WWE for a future without him in charge.

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Seems Max Dupri could be repackaged.  Some think the humiliation gimmick is over for him.

Kevin Dunn could be finished by next year, maybe forced retirement with severance package. Notable suggested replacements for Dunn could be J.Borash or Billy Kidman or few others I don't remember.

Smackdown does have its own people that don't always do what Dunn wants. Dunn leaving will effect Raw. My two problems with Dunn...is missed bungled moments on tv or he avoids the parts of the crowd that do react on tv to show part of the crowd that didn't sometimes.

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I’d bet that Dunn (or whoever is directing) actually calls their shots. You need a human there too see that the shot is actually ready. You can’t take a camera if the operator has fallen down or the cable is bad and there’s no video.
 

Also, the director doesn’t punch the cameras, they call them. A technical director (TD) does the actual pushing of buttons. 
 

My guess would be that Dunn forgoes the usual, “Ready camera 1.  Take camera 1.” and instead, the camera operators are very aware of where they need to be and what they need to be on. That way, he can just do a “Take camera 1. Take camera 3. Take camera 2…”. 

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The joke is saying "Take camera 1" takes longer to say than they actually stay on any single shot. That's why I think it's possible he's mashing buttons without being able to call it. But you have a good point. He could just be directing verbally with a TD punching the buttons. Could just be they are so much on the same page he's punching the buttons as fast as Dunn is talking.

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In my anatomy/physiology class, the chapter this week is on bones. There actually IS an External Occipital Protuberance! I should have never doubted Gorilla Monsoon.

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6 hours ago, BrianS81177 said:

In my anatomy/physiology class, the chapter this week is on bones. There actually IS an External Occipital Protuberance! I should have never doubted Gorilla Monsoon.

C'mon, he even clarified it to The Brain a couple of times: "It's that little lump on the back of your neck." There was nothing to doubt. I just felt mine with my fingers to make sure as I write this!

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16 hours ago, BrianS81177 said:

In my anatomy/physiology class, the chapter this week is on bones. There actually IS an External Occipital Protuberance! I should have never doubted Gorilla Monsoon.

I hope that when it's talked about in whatever textbook you're using, there's a passage that says, "a shot there will take the starch out of you in a hurry! Holy mackerel!"

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On 7/23/2022 at 5:30 PM, BrianS81177 said:

In my anatomy/physiology class, the chapter this week is on bones. There actually IS an External Occipital Protuberance! I should have never doubted Gorilla Monsoon.

why would you doubt a man educated at one of Ithaca, New York's finest colleges?

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2 minutes ago, Cobra Commander said:

why would you doubt a man educated at one of Ithaca, New York's finest colleges?

So that's where the Terry Garvin School of Self-Defense is located.

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