July 2022 Wrestling Discussion

[NoFistsJustFlips]

As long as Nick Khan is the one holding the purse strings, I wouldn't feel like WWE is any less volatile to work for than it has been. No doubt Triple H & the way he runs things and writes TV is going to be an insane improvement (in my opinion). But Triple H isn't the guy making the call on is Bray worth $6mil a year. Is Braun worth $1mil a year. Like sure Triple H is head of talent relations and can sign whichever free AEW guys he wants when their deals are up. Hey Miro we'll give you $1mil a year to come back. Keith Lee we'll give you a $1mil a year to come back. But when it comes to the end of the fiscal quarter if Nick Khan doesn't like the profit margins he's still got the power to go slash whoever he wants from the roster.

There's a bit of conflating going on. Triple H has all the creative power in the world right now, but executive power / final say is not his. He's still at the mercy of Nick Khan climbing that MK ladder. Triple H is only the Vince McMahon of the on screen product. He's not actually the Vince McMahon of the company.

[Niners Fan in CT]

Sorry to say.. Bate and Gresham are SHORT..  that's a problem when you always have to be an underdog. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

He's not actually the Vince McMahon of the company.

No.. that's true but Steph's also a co-CEO.  Hunter gonna have a lot of pull also on that end.  

[EVA]

I feel like I remember some rumblingz of maturity issues with Bate that kind of put the brakes on his career.

But it would make sense, given that’s always a risk when a guy hits it big at such a young age.

Edited July 30, 2022 by EVA

[NoFistsJustFlips]

1 hour ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

No.. that's true but Steph's also a co-CEO.  Hunter gonna have a lot of pull also on that end.  

Right. But if they really had all the power, why would Steph & Khan be co-CEOs? If the keys to the kingdom were theirs, wouldn't Steph be the sole CEO? And if they kept Khan (which by all rights he is a top tier cooperate exec they would want to keep), why wouldn't they put a very specific hierarchy in place that shows Steph is above him? The truth is (going by all the rumors bashing her when she took hiats) the board doesn't believe in her as an executive. But they do believe in Khan.

So the way I read the situation, Steph is co-CEO for visibility purposes. To project a certain PR image. Oh this isn't such a big deal. Vince left but Steph has been doing this for 20 years and this isn't actually a big change that should rock the boat. While that is the public face of the decision, the behind the scenes reality is the board would much rather Khan be the one pulling the strings. Because it's all about the profits. Bray Wyatt who? Who cares? Just make more money this quarter than you did this quarter last year.

Basically the treatment of the talent will a bit better. But it's still cooperate wrestling with a cooperation running it for profit. The infrastructure is too big to change. Khan is going to have say in everything financially related for the foreseeable future. And let's not forget, his vision is even more ruthless than Vince's was.

[Niners Fan in CT]

30 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Basically the treatment of the talent will a bit better. But it's still cooperate wrestling with a cooperation running it for profit. The infrastructure is too big to change. Khan is going to have say in everything financially related for the foreseeable future. And let's not forget, his vision is even more ruthless than Vince's was.

That can be all true but to me.. if Hunter wants a man/woman..  he'll get them. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I agree with you. If he wants someone he's going to get them. My point is from a talent perspective, how is that any different than it was? He can get them. We both agree on that. But there's still no job security in WWE. NK will be able to cut anyone and everyone if he sees fit. So do we get a perpetual cycle of Triple H signing people, Khan releasing them, then Triple H re-signing them? No. Because NK is above Triple H in the pecking order.

Triple H can sign whoever he wants to however much he wants. But ultimately it's still NK's whims and really the finances of the company that will dictate if talents get to stay through the deal they sign.

[Hamhock]

1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Triple H can sign whoever he wants to however much he wants. But ultimately it's still NK's whims and really the finances of the company that will dictate if talents get to stay through the deal they sign.

Who gets to offer the terms of the contract? Is HHH allowed to put no-cut clauses in to pre-empt that? Or things like “early termination of deal automatically pays out 3x value of deal plus voiding of no-compete”?

[username]

I mean you don't have to offer Keith/Miro/whoever a million a year to come back as I'd be gobsmacked if AEW is paying them anywhere near that. Wyatt and Braun were very much "you guys cost way too much and have to go" where getting them to come back would likely cost big bucks (although with the way CYN is panning out perhaps not for Braun...), if those fellas like and trust HHH and say $400k/year tops what AEW pays then that may be enough to both get them back and not knock the budget out of whack.

 

Also Nick Khan likely isn't an idiot, cutting guys in that specific way would just lead to reports of chaos behind the scenes and the company jumping the rails without the founder and that's the last thing any of them want. They all are likely talking to one another and if there is a handful of guys Hunter vouches for and says will be a big part of the shows they aren't gonna bat an eye at paying them reasonable amounts. If Hunter comes up with two dozen names like he seemed to want to do at times with NXT 1.0 that is when things will be more... complicated.

[Dog]

Do you guys think AEW contracts are written on cocktail napkins or something? Miro JUST re-signed, for FOUR YEARS.

[Kang]

I've read AEW extends contract time when wrestlers are injured.

Few people are signed to mutiple years for AEW like Adam Cole.

[username]

I am actually rather curious what would happen if an AEW wrestler just publicly went on twitter and requested their release. Legally they'd be stuck but given how much AEW's audience was likely strongly opposed to WWE not releasing talents in similar situations I wonder if it'd just be easier to let them go than take the image hit.

This is more just random musings than thinking any of the big AEW names are close to doing that (not even MJF IMO), I just used Miro and Keith because they were mentioned a couple posts before mine.

[Shartnado]

19 hours ago, AxB said:

He is. The top of his head is the same height as my chin. That makes him 5'3-5'4". Exactly the same height as those lads. He's just had his height less exposed because he's been hiding in NXT UK where almost everyone is under 6 foot.

Yes, definitely in the "same bracket" at least, if not exactly the same same height as those two. My under 5'7" ass had definitely something on him back in 2017, so he can't be much taller than your estimate. Not that it's any kind of problem to me. Not since that Dijakovic match on Youtube portion of Worlds Collide and that was still sometime before the WALTER matches.

[zendragon]

3 hours ago, username said:

I am actually rather curious what would happen if an AEW wrestler just publicly went on twitter and requested their release. Legally they'd be stuck but given how much AEW's audience was likely strongly opposed to WWE not releasing talents in similar situations I wonder if it'd just be easier to let them go than take the image hit.

This is more just random musings than thinking any of the big AEW names are close to doing that (not even MJF IMO), I just used Miro and Keith because they were mentioned a couple posts before mine.

Supposedly they let Cody go rather than exercise his option year in his contract.

[AxB]

When Kylie Rae requested her release, AEW just granted it. Not sure what happened with Bea Priestley, but clearly her contract ended earlier than it otherwise would have done, because she's Blair Davenport in NXT UK now.

[hammerva]

Wasn't there a ton of other issues with Kylie Rae early AEW run that made her release easier to accept.   She was struggling with her issues at the time and I thought there was an urban legend involving Kylie and Brandi Rhodes and bullying.   

[The Natural]

Never forget this Dave Meltzer gem:

[cwoy2j]

9 hours ago, username said:

I am actually rather curious what would happen if an AEW wrestler just publicly went on twitter and requested their release. Legally they'd be stuck but given how much AEW's audience was likely strongly opposed to WWE not releasing talents in similar situations I wonder if it'd just be easier to let them go than take the image hit.

This is more just random musings than thinking any of the big AEW names are close to doing that (not even MJF IMO), I just used Miro and Keith because they were mentioned a couple posts before mine.

I'd imagine they'd likely just let the guy/woman go. I've listened to a lot of former NBA/NFL players talk about this issue and the rising number of players who demand trades nowadays. If the guy is going to be a malcontent, it's better for both parties to part ways. You do run the risk of "inmates running the asylum" but you also don't want things to turn super ugly and spread to other parts of your locker room.

[Coletti]

Let's not forget, one of the main issues with WWE not releasing those who want them is that the same company will fire people at any moment, for seemingly any reason. They're completely hypocritical when it comes to "honoring" contracts. If AEW starts randomly firing 20 people on any given Friday, then that'll be more comparable. 

Edited July 31, 2022 by christopher.annino

[NoFistsJustFlips]

14 hours ago, username said:

I mean you don't have to offer Keith/Miro/whoever a million a year to come back as I'd be gobsmacked if AEW is paying them anywhere near that. Wyatt and Braun were very much "you guys cost way too much and have to go" where getting them to come back would likely cost big bucks (although with the way CYN is panning out perhaps not for Braun...), if those fellas like and trust HHH and say $400k/year tops what AEW pays then that may be enough to both get them back and not knock the budget out of whack.

I would guess $400/year is about the range both Miro & Keith Lee are at in their AEW contracts. Probably what they were at in WWE as well when they were let go. So offering them the same to come back to a place they had bad experiences at isn't going to cut it. That's why I was jumping the numbers up to $1mil. That's enough money to show hey we're sorry, we care about you, you're valuable to us, and it's not going to happen again. To prove it we'd be doubling what you last made here.

Because let's be honest, if the money offer is the same at both AEW & WWE why would anyone ever pick WWE?? You get less creative freedom and you work way more. Why would anyone take the same money to be home less? And at contract renewal if AEW is happy with their work, they would increase the rate of most guys too. So that $400/year is not gonna cut it to get those guys back.

 

13 hours ago, Dog said:

Do you guys think AEW contracts are written on cocktail napkins or something? Miro JUST re-signed, for FOUR YEARS.

I'm very aware of that. This discussion, at least from my POV, is meant to be at renewal time for both Miro & Lee. Miro is 4 years away and I think Lee is 4.5 years away. That's a long time away. And things will certainly change in the landscape by then. But my argument still stands if / when they come back once their deals are up. Where is the job security? WWE is the land of random releases. I don't understand why anyone AEW is paying well would ever jump to WWE. It's a case of making $X for sure for 5 years vs making $X for however long they arbitrarily decide they want you. It's a no brainer to me.

[KidNatural]

The other thing is the point that those conversations are easier to have without Vince around.

Hypothetically, if Miro was on a short term deal he would be more receptive to talks with Trips than they would have been with the previous regime.

And how stupid does Regal's release look in the current situation? He would have been very useful right about now.

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

This discussion, at least from my POV, is meant to be at renewal time for both Miro & Lee. Miro is 4 years away and I think Lee is 4.5 years away. That's a long time away.

Not to mention that when those timeframes occur, Miro will be either 40 or 41 and Keith Lee will be either 41 or 42.

AEW's currently lighter schedule might mean there will be more tread left on the tires but that's still a pretty tough age to give a wrestler a high dollar/high year contract, even if it's a make-good contract from the one that they were released from previously.

Assuming they even want to go back in the first place.

[Cobra Commander]

i'm guessing promotions won't be friendly enough with each other to trade contracts at any time in the future

although there were rumors that the WWF and WCW could have made a deal in 1993 where the WWF got Lex Luger in the wrestling side of things in-exchange for Ric Flair returning to WCW

[odessasteps]

I wonder if that could have been a deal with Vince and Watts, where Vince would have not done that with Herd, Frey or Bischoff. 

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I wonder if that could have been a deal with Vince and Watts, where Vince would have not done that with Herd, Frey or Bischoff. 

Probably was, but there so much turnover in WCW at that time and friction that I doubt it would have ever came together. By the time Flair was ready to go back, Herd was long gone. However, it was clear that Watts had made so many enemies backstage and in corporate that he himself was on borrowed time. He was brought in specifically to turn WCW around (and he was one of the names bandied about years prior for that same role when Crockett sold to Turner), and that wasn't happening. Keep in mind, between that, Frey was brought basically to be there a temporary person in charge. I don't think Kip was ever there to be the long-term boss. Even if Watts never did that Torch interview with Madden, it was looking like he wouldn't make it through 1993. So when ole Jughead (as Bischoff calls him) got fired for his latent casual racism, Bill Shaw was basically the boss and there was likely no way he was gonna cut a deal with Vince. However, due to Bischoff being head of TV/not being too fond of the southern vibe of the commentary and Shaw taking JR off television to do syndication sales, Vince did eventually get his PBP man out of that.

The funniest thing here is Ross forgave everyone (from Russo/Ferrara to Jesse Ventura to Bischoff), but he still hates the living fuck out of Bill Shaw. Shaw taking a shot at his commentary still sticks in his craw.