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July 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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Didn’t WWE sign that Indian pitcher that had a movie made about him?

Edit: Oh, shit! That’s Veer. I had no idea. And the movie is Million Dollar Arm. 

Edited by Log
Answered my own question.
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Circling back to the worst booking decisions in the past 20 years, the culling of the IWGP Heavyweight Title history is bad, but I don't think it is the worst in the last 20 years for New Japan. Remember the disastrously bad 2004-05 run of the IWGP Heavyweight Title? Some of it was bad luck, but there were some extremely bad decisions in that period that I can't believe I defended back in the day. 

Tenzan winning at the end of 2003 was the right idea, probably should have had a decent run but they wanted to try a big shock with Supernova Nakamura winning (something they would do with great success 10 years later with Okada). It kinda worked (decent drawing Dome show), but unfortunately Nakamura gets hurt. Then the wheels start falling off...Tenzan wins a tournament, drops immediately to Sasaki, who then immediately drops to Sapp (sure Sapp was a big deal in Japan, but where could this have possibly gone? And why even put it on Sasaki?) and Sapp vacates 66 days later due to losing to Fujita in K-1. 

Fujita then wins the belt in a fun match with Tanahashi and after another fun match with Shibata, seems to be going okay...until that what the fuck finish with Sasaki (getting pinned in his own sleeper in like 3 minutes) who drops to Tenzan a few months later (back to square 1). Tenzan gets hurt in the Kojima match, wins it back, then back to Fujita (because last time went so well) before finally settling on...Brock Lesnar, who really didn't want to be there and did nothing at all for business. This is at the same time NJPW is bleeding money, Lesnar refuses to wrestle Tanahashi (Lesnar says because he wasn't paid, other rumours at the time indicated he didn't want to wrestle Tanahashi for whatever reason so who knows) and then vacates which leads NJPW to have to bring back the old crown belt as Lesnar wouldn't give back the new 4th gen belt.

Typing that out makes the IWGP World thing seem not so bad...

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5 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I just asked this on the BTS discord so I’ll throw it out here: 

I wonder the most successful baseball player turned wrestler was. I mean, the best baseball player to become a wrestler. Did Torborg make the show? Did The Mayor ever wrestle In HWA or just manage? I presume there was someone who made it higher in the system than Randy.  I’m sure I’m forgetting someone obvious.

Dale Torborg probably. I think his wrestling career was longer that his baseball career!

I assume by “The Mayor”, you’re talking about former Reds first baseman Sean Casey, right? He’s not to be confused with the other Sean Casey who wrestled for HWA and teamed with BJ Whitmer for a while (I think? That was a long time ago).

Baseball Sean Casey did make an appearance at one or two of the Pillman Shows though. I know he was at 2000 because I have a program from that show with his autograph on it. Don’t remember if he was at the 2001 show.

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13 hours ago, vicious&delicious said:

Out of curiosity, are there any instances where a wrestling promotion actively went against the wishes of the fanbase and it actually worked out for the better? It seems like WWE is always moving towards a grand vision that never materializes. 

 

In a way, the best wrestling promotions (booking-wise) did this. Eddie Graham in particular knew what the fans wanted, but knew the best way to give it to them was not how they (think they) wanted it, but the way that would elicit the most emotion (his genius way). Feuds that go on for a long time, with lots os turns, teases, face beatdowns and slow burn are a typical example. Memphis could do this on occasion too, Portland and LA too. Yeah, you want your hero to get revenge ASAP, but those old bookers would wring every last angle/emotion/dollar out of it, and we were all better off for it. Forget booking for your monthly PPV, I want a feud that lasts for years...

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9 hours ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

Eh, I thought Flair came off the babyface in that segment.  Which is interesting since Meltzer has been saying for awhile that Ric is more comfortable working heel and would most likely be the heel in the match.  

How? Flair:

  • Has Lethal help him get into training shape for one last match, but then doesn't include him at all in the announcements/festivities surrounding it. Lethal confronts him, and he basically blows him off and implies that he's going to beat Lethal's ass for speaking up. 
  • Tells Jarrett to fuck off and that he hates his pops when Jarrett actually tries to help him up.

If he comes off as a babyface, he comes off as an '80s WWF Hogan-style babyface. I thought he came off as a dick in that video. To each their own, I suppose. 

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2 hours ago, thee Reverend Axl Future said:

In a way, the best wrestling promotions (booking-wise) did this. Eddie Graham in particular knew what the fans wanted, but knew the best way to give it to them was not how they (think they) wanted it, but the way that would elicit the most emotion (his genius way). Feuds that go on for a long time, with lots os turns, teases, face beatdowns and slow burn are a typical example. Memphis could do this on occasion too, Portland and LA too. Yeah, you want your hero to get revenge ASAP, but those old bookers would wring every last angle/emotion/dollar out of it, and we were all better off for it. Forget booking for your monthly PPV, I want a feud that lasts for years...

Also, the challenges of booking weekly towns are a different dynamic than monthly. In a week to week territory, you are seeing the results in a much quicker turn around. 

We've certainly heard about Memphis abruptly changing plans after a bad Monday night attendance. 

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now if there are any future ex-baseball pitchers in wrestling, maybe one of them could be given the task of trying to get the claw over as a finisher

"He's squeezing that guy's head like it's a baseball"

Hell, just give that finish to a knuckleball pitcher and have the least threatening type of pitcher be the guy whose finisher involves digging fingers into someone's temples

Probably easier to get the claw back over than the heart punch since the Heart Punch is a little less believable in a day when everybody is supposed to have cardio and wrestlers aren't dying in the ring of incidental heart attacks after taking the heart pitch.

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18 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

You just need to crush some apples, Hodge style, to get the Claw over again. 

Shit, gimmick an actual baseball to be crushed by a claw and we have Veer's finish that'll make him. He's pretty good so far, and I really like him a lot. And that would work perfectly with his character.

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1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

now if there are any future ex-baseball pitchers in wrestling, maybe one of them could be given the task of trying to get the claw over as a finisher

"He's squeezing that guy's head like it's a baseball"

Hell, just give that finish to a knuckleball pitcher and have the least threatening type of pitcher be the guy whose finisher involves digging fingers into someone's temples

Probably easier to get the claw back over than the heart punch since the Heart Punch is a little less believable in a day when everybody is supposed to have cardio and wrestlers aren't dying in the ring of incidental heart attacks after taking the heart pitch.

Lance Archer got the claw over in New Japan, dunno if he still uses it in AEW or not

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13 hours ago, odessasteps said:

I just asked this on the BTS discord so I’ll throw it out here: 

I wonder the most successful baseball player turned wrestler was. I mean, the best baseball player to become a wrestler. Did Torborg make the show? Did The Mayor ever wrestle In HWA or just manage? I presume there was someone who made it higher in the system than Randy.  I’m sure I’m forgetting someone obvious.

are we not counting Macho Man for some reason?

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Yes. The original question was "what was highest level of success in baseball by a regular wrestler, not a guest shot or one off?" Macho being a minor league player would likely not be the answer. 

It seems like the answer might just be Baba, since I guess Dale Torborg didn't reach the majors. 

Edited by odessasteps
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8 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

How? Flair:

  • Has Lethal help him get into training shape for one last match, but then doesn't include him at all in the announcements/festivities surrounding it. Lethal confronts him, and he basically blows him off and implies that he's going to beat Lethal's ass for speaking up. 
  • Tells Jarrett to fuck off and that he hates his pops when Jarrett actually tries to help him up.

If he comes off as a babyface, he comes off as an '80s WWF Hogan-style babyface. I thought he came off as a dick in that video. To each their own, I suppose. 

Maybe they’re all heels?  Lethal got in Flair’s face about being left off the card, then punched the much older guy in the stomach, then pounded on him.  Fight gets broken up, then Lethal comes back and whomps Flair while he’s still on the ground.  Jarrett gets involved, then gets mad and he ends up attacking Flair while Ric is still selling Lethal’s punches.  I thought Lethal came off as the typical jerk heel who gets angry over a minor imaginary slight.

Flair acted heelish provoking Jarrett but otherwise it seemed like we were supposed to buy Lethal as the heel.   You’re probably right, though.  Flair supposedly wants to go out as a heel

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2 hours ago, odessasteps said:

Yes. The original question was "what was highest level of success in baseball by a regular wrestler, not a guest shot or one off?" Macho being a minor league player would likely not be the answer. 

It seems like the answer might just be Baba, since I guess Dale Torborg didn't reach the majors. 

thank you. i read the question backwards (damn early morning brain not working)

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12 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

now if there are any future ex-baseball pitchers in wrestling, maybe one of them could be given the task of trying to get the claw over as a finisher

"He's squeezing that guy's head like it's a baseball"

Hell, just give that finish to a knuckleball pitcher and have the least threatening type of pitcher be the guy whose finisher involves digging fingers into someone's temples

Probably easier to get the claw back over than the heart punch since the Heart Punch is a little less believable in a day when everybody is supposed to have cardio and wrestlers aren't dying in the ring of incidental heart attacks after taking the heart pitch.

I’ve never been able to take the claw seriously.  Back in the 80’s, I saw a standup comedian do a bit about Baron Van Raschke with the punchline being that his move - the Claw - “wouldn’t paralyze a gerbil.”.  Lol, he was probably right.

Someone needs to steal the Pirahna’s claw move.  Piranha was one of the opponents in the Mat Mania arcade game from the 80’s/early 90’s.  Piranha had a signature move where he would whip his opponent into the ropes, then catch the guy with a double-hand face claw /vise grip. He would sorta wiggle his hands over the oponent’s face and his opponent would slump to his knees then fall on his back and llay there,  cool variation.  

Edited by Tarheel Moneghetti
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21 minutes ago, Tarheel Moneghetti said:

I’ve never been able to take the claw seriously.  Back in the 80’s, I saw a standup comedian do a bit about Baron Van Raschke with the punchline being that his move - the Claw - “wouldn’t paralyze a gerbil.”.  Lol, he was probably right.

Someone needs to steal the Pirahna’s claw move.  Piranha was one of the opponents in the Mat Mania arcade game from the 80’s/early 90’s.  Piranha had a signature move where he would whip his opponent into the ropes, then catch the guy with a double-hand face claw /vise grip. He would sorta wiggle his hands over the oponent’s face and his opponent would slump to his knees then fall on his bak. And lay there,  cool variation.  

Have you seen Satnam Singh's claw variation? He grabs the opponents head in a claw while they are down and picks them up and slams them back down like dribbling a basketball.

 

It's sick

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