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THOR: Love & Thunder - SPOILER THREAD (07/08/22)


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I’m honestly starting to wonder if a mix of Marvel fatigue and Marvel just being waaaaaay to stuck in there formula has led to a point of no return. It will be interesting to see how they handle things from here, because it feels like post End Game Marvel has only had one big defining movie (Spider-Man), and even that was mostly huge due to the nostalgia elements. It feels like they need a big shake up to really get momentum back, but I don’t think that happens until they take some falls in the box office.

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14 minutes ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

I’m honestly starting to wonder if a mix of Marvel fatigue and Marvel just being waaaaaay to stuck in there formula has led to a point of no return. It will be interesting to see how they handle things from here, because it feels like post End Game Marvel has only had one big defining movie (Spider-Man), and even that was mostly huge due to the nostalgia elements. It feels like they need a big shake up to really get momentum back, but I don’t think that happens until they take some falls in the box office.

If things start to become problematic, they can just pull the X-Men switch. They made a conscious decision in this phase to keep doubling down on new characters and a few franchises instead of going with that.

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Well, that's the thing isn't it?  They're running this formula and it's making them a billion dollars (pre-pandemic) per movie.  Diminishing returns will happen because, eventually people will move on. 

But if this, BP2, and Ant-Man 3 (or Guardians 3, I keep forgetting what's next) all keep humming along making high 9 figures at the box office, they ain't stopping this train for years.  And by the time they realize people are burned out, it's probably too late to do anything about it. 

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28 minutes ago, Matt D said:

If things start to become problematic, they can just pull the X-Men switch. They made a conscious decision in this phase to keep doubling down on new characters and a few franchises instead of going with that.

Gonna be honest, seeing the comic characters that were supposed to be stand ins for civil rights issues be reduced to Marvel “Have to cut a joke into every serious scene to remind you it’s a Marvel Movie” fodder is almost actively painful to me. In Black Panther they had the good sense to have T’Challa have weight, but Marvel was a lot more willing to experiment when that came out. With the state of this stupid country right now, doing an X-Men movie would take absurd amounts of care or feel like a huge slap in the face if it’s just another comedic marvel movie.

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11 minutes ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

Gonna be honest, seeing the comic characters that were supposed to be stand ins for civil rights issues be reduced to Marvel “Have to cut a joke into every serious scene to remind you it’s a Marvel Movie” fodder is almost actively painful to me. In Black Panther they had the good sense to have T’Challa have weight, but Marvel was a lot more willing to experiment when that came out. With the state of this stupid country right now, doing an X-Men movie would take absurd amounts of care or feel like a huge slap in the face if it’s just another comedic marvel movie.

X-Men is probably the most popular franchise in (actual) comic book history, up there with Batman and Spider-Man, and as such it means a lot of different things to a lot of different people. You can have guilt-ridden religious Nightcrawler and swashbuckling hero Nightcrawler. You can have broody, scheming, self-righteous Beast and pun-slinging, fun-loving Beast. You can have about ten different versions of Wolverine. I hope they recognize the moment and the weight of things so that people that are invested due to reasons connected to their own identities are supported, but there are a lot of things that X-Men can be and a lot of things that it can be at once.

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Posted (edited)

Do people really still have the same kind of emotional attachment to the XMen as they did in the 80s and 90s? They went from being the underdogs and outcasts to the flagship characters along with Spidey. With the rise of the Avengers, are they back to being second tier characters (except Logan)? 

Edited by odessasteps
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2 hours ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

I’m honestly starting to wonder if a mix of Marvel fatigue and Marvel just being waaaaaay to stuck in there formula has led to a point of no return. It will be interesting to see how they handle things from here, because it feels like post End Game Marvel has only had one big defining movie (Spider-Man), and even that was mostly huge due to the nostalgia elements. It feels like they need a big shake up to really get momentum back, but I don’t think that happens until they take some falls in the box office.

People said this when Eternals got a Rotten score and it still made over $400 million worldwide. Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness made over $410 million domestic and $950 million worldwide without China or Russia. 

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1 hour ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

Gonna be honest, seeing the comic characters that were supposed to be stand ins for civil rights issues be reduced to Marvel “Have to cut a joke into every serious scene to remind you it’s a Marvel Movie” fodder is almost actively painful to me. In Black Panther they had the good sense to have T’Challa have weight, but Marvel was a lot more willing to experiment when that came out. With the state of this stupid country right now, doing an X-Men movie would take absurd amounts of care or feel like a huge slap in the face if it’s just another comedic marvel movie.

We've yet to really see this happen. Also, this is ironic considering seeing what Fox has done to the X-men franchise has been pretty painful overall.

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29 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

People said this when Eternals got a Rotten score and it still made over $400 million worldwide. Doctor Strange Multiverse of Madness made over $410 million domestic and $950 million worldwide without China or Russia. 

I’m not arguing there ability to make money.  The Disney Live Action Remake genre has been able to print money over and over again even when basically anyone can tell you they aren’t particularly good movies, and none of them have held candles to the originals. Jurassic World Dominion just made 800 million in spite of there not being a good Jurassic Park movie in 30 years. Being a good movie has nothing to do with being able to fill a theatre.

 

My question is “are they now stuck so deep in this formula are they never going to make a Marvel movie that isn’t a generic action/comedy ever again.” Because this as a premise could have been super compelling if they took some risks, but reviews seem to say they really didn’t. It’s making it hard for me personally to get excited for future releases when they just play it safe by relying on nostalgia and making sure there are basically no stakes in these movies over and over.

 

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, The Man Known as Dan said:

I’m not arguing there ability to make money.  The Disney Live Action Remake genre has been able to print money over and over again even when basically anyone can tell you they aren’t particularly good movies, and none of them have held candles to the originals. Jurassic World Dominion just made 800 million in spite of there not being a good Jurassic Park movie in 30 years. Being a good movie has nothing to do with being able to fill a theatre.

 

My question is “are they now stuck so deep in this formula are they never going to make a Marvel movie that isn’t a generic action/comedy ever again.” Because this as a premise could have been super compelling if they took some risks, but reviews seem to say they really didn’t. It’s making it hard for me personally to get excited for future releases when they just play it safe by relying on nostalgia and making sure there are basically no stakes in these movies over and over.

 

 

 

 

Eh I'm not so sure I agree. Some of them have a quality of sameness, but I did enjoy Love and Thunder for the most part. 

Multiverse of Madness does have some script problems, undoubtedly, but visually, I thought it was one of Marvel's better directed films in a while, and I enjoyed how it looked. 

To me, you can't look at a film like Civil War or The Winter Soldier or even Black Panther and call them formulaic. And then what they did with Infinity War and Endgame.

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9 hours ago, The Natural said:

Thor: Love and Thunder debuts on Rotten Tomatoes today and it's score keeps on dropping: 75% fresh with 45 fresh and 17 rotten reviews.

It seems to be bouncing around the nice number, which means it's probably being scored that way on purpose

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Posted (edited)

Full disclosure, my review isn't up yet and won't be going up on the Tomatometer until tomorrow. 

Right now it's at 71% with 131 reviews. Just on its face, that tells me most critics largely liked and enjoyed the film. I'm imagining some were a bit mixed on it. I think the film has its issues. I would say it's an above average MCU movie but not like an upper-tier level one like say Iron Man, Winter Soldier, Civil War, Black Panther, Infinity War, Guardians Vol. 1, Endgame. 

Now I still liked Multiverse of Madness, but the way the film establishes Wanda's storyline I can see as a bit of a problem for some people. And there's nothing wrong with that.

Edited by TheVileOne
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I'm wondering if I should just wait for it to come on D+. From all that I'm hearing, it sounds like it has all the things that will annoy me and I don't know what I will actually enjoy. Is Bale's performance worth not waiting the 6 weeks or whatever? 

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4 minutes ago, odessasteps said:

I'm wondering if I should just wait for it to come on D+. From all that I'm hearing, it sounds like it has all the things that will annoy me and I don't know what I will actually enjoy. Is Bale's performance worth not waiting the 6 weeks or whatever? 

It's not even in my top 10 Christian Bale performances. Not that it's  bad performance mind you, but I'd say go more for like Natalie Portman more than anything.

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Posted (edited)

Granted its early days but Marvel Phase IV is easily my least favourite so far for a number of reasons:

  • The quality. Spider-Man: No Way Home is the standout film. Black Widow was so disappointing, really liked Shang-Chi, Eternals was dull but not the worst MCU movie while I had issues with Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness.
  • The amount to keep up to with the films and TV, especially the TV. That also is hit and miss like the movies are.
  • The direction. Marvel Phase I introduced the core Avengers in separate films before assembling them into one. Phase II introduces new heroes and the Infinity Stones. Phase III sees new heroes and the conclusion of the Infinity Saga. Needs a direction as it feels aimless. Guessing it'll be Kang as the big bad.
  • Is Kevin Feige getting too stretched?
Edited by The Natural
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I think it’s pretty obvious that Phase 4 is just Phase 1 basically, but with a twist. It’s introducing all of these new characters (and expanding on the existing characters that are left) before assembling them for a team-up. Phase 4 and onwards will follow the blueprint set by 1-3.

The real Marvel fatigue is people bringing up Marvel fatigue every few cycles of movies/shows.

(Also, nobody is saying anyone needs to follow every show as it airs or go watch every movie. The shows exist on a streaming platform so it’s ripe for binging eventually if one wishes, and I personally haven’t seen an MCU movie in theaters since the original Iron Man ffs)

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Posted (edited)

That was pretty, pretty good. Solid 7/10 stuff - heartwarming, served its purpose, generally quite funny, I thought the dynamic of the gods being tone deaf to the every day people was a great allegory to the things we're experiencing at the moment as a society.

But we really should probably talk about that weirdly racist Russell Crowe scene that just completely took it off track for a bit and took ages to get back in its groove.

Edited by GuerrillaMonsoon
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1 hour ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

That was pretty, pretty good. Solid 7/10 stuff - heartwarming, served its purpose, generally quite funny, I thought the dynamic of the gods being tone deaf to the every day people was a great allegory to the things we're experiencing at the moment as a society.

But we really should probably talk about that weirdly racist Russell Crowe scene that just completely took it off track for a bit and took ages to get back in its groove.

I was waiting for your review knowing you get to see them quicker than the rest living Down Under. I was hoping what you said about Gods not listening would be in the film as it's a reoccurring theme in Jason Aaron's Thor run. Racist Russell Crowe scene? Oh no.

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I just got back from watching it about an hour ago, I genuinely loved it, whether that's because this was my first Marvel cinema experience since Endgame, or that I love the source material in the comics, or maybe that it was a fun escape when we live in a world where fun things are more important than ever. Bits of it felt rushed in part and the switch from the silly to the point where the story needed to carry a bit more weight was a little rough, but I found it to be a very fun and very enjoyable watch. I liked that it basically became a full circle for the character of Thor himself, tying in with the quote at the end of Endgame of him having no path and then finding himself. The interaction between Hemsworth and Portman was the best of the movie and I wish we had more of that and a little less of the goofy bits, as fun as they are. 

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