Vince McMahon is a horny old man

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

1 hour ago, Pedro said:

Yes she would in a heartbeat.

 

She played a concert at a local casino and some friends, my wife, and I decided to go. We stuck around to gamble late into the night and Micky ended up at the steak house in the casino where we all were eating. Before she was seated a guy asked her to sign something I think it was his napkin. She wanted to charge $20.' He didn't pay and she seemed pissed.  Two of my friends went over and gave her $20 for pic with their own phone mind you and she was sweet talking them "thank you baby"  "feel free to buy me a drink too"   It made me wonder if she didn't save up her WWE money, and then to see her go back to work WWE after the trash bag complaining really helped me see that she probably did not.

A wrestler asking for money for an autograph or picture, especially in a restaurant (whether they're seated or not), is code for "you're bothering me, and I'm willing to bet you won't leave me alone if I ask you politely, nor do I have any faith that you won't draw any attention to me if I give you what you want, so I might as well make some money for the inconvenience".

(This actually applies to a good majority of famous people who don't want to be bothered either before or during their meals, but I have far more experience seeing it around wrestlers.)

[SirSmUgly]

1 hour ago, Craig H said:

It’s worth repeating, but Succession music intensifies.

And that theme is a goddam BANGER too, the shit is flames, it slaps, I'm posting it here again because it's great. 

 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

3 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Now that it's going mainstream, you cannot unring that bell.

I only clipped down your post to not eat up a bunch of room. It's an excellent post and I agree with just about everything you said there. But brother was at Smackdown tonight business as usual. He's not going to go willingly. It's a little different from most other corporate situations because all the headlines are Vince has temporarily stepped down as CEO. The mainstream *isn't* talking about how he's actively still the most important force behind the on screen product. At every single event. Pulling all of the strings (in creative). Even today. When this giant and terrible story is uncovered. If no one stopped him from being there today, it's not that much of a leap to think he's just going to put his head down and plow through it.

Steph is absolutely going to be installed as the permanent CEO. But they are not going to remove Vince from creative. He's too stubborn and just won't allow it. If he got through today, he's gotten through the worst of it. And I don't see Steph or Nick Khan or any board member (all of which allowed him to stay in power tonight), saying well now you gotta go.

He absolutely SHOULD go. The story on face value alone. But *especially* since he's the head creative administrator and has a history of sexual misconduct with active performers. How can any of the performers respect him again? How can any of the female performers take advice and direction from someone like that? I'm not sure. But I'm still betting they will.

 

[The Natural]

Fuck Vince McMahon.

[Elsalvajeloco]

2 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I only clipped down your post to not eat up a bunch of room. It's an excellent post and I agree with just about everything you said there. But brother was at Smackdown tonight business as usual. He's not going to go willingly. It's a little different from most other corporate situations because all the headlines are Vince has temporarily stepped down as CEO. The mainstream *isn't* talking about how he's actively still the most important force behind the on screen product. At every single event. Pulling all of the strings (in creative). Even today. When this giant and terrible story is uncovered. If no one stopped him from being there today, it's not that much of a leap to think he's just going to put his head down and plow through it.

Steph is absolutely going to be installed as the permanent CEO. But they are not going to remove Vince from creative. He's too stubborn and just won't allow it. If he got through today, he's gotten through the worst of it. And I don't see Steph or Nick Khan or any board member (all of which allowed him to stay in power tonight), saying well now you gotta go.

He absolutely SHOULD go. The story on face value alone. But *especially* since he's the head creative administrator and has a history of sexual misconduct with active performers. How can any of the performers respect him again? How can any of the female performers take advice and direction from someone like that? I'm not sure. But I'm still betting they will.
 

There are a lot of people who fit that category who ultimately ended up not being in their original position they had. I assure you Donald Sterling and Jerry Richardson didn't want to sell their teams, and they had a lot more power than Vince had as the NBA and NFL respectively are more powerful than WWE. Stubborn and won't allow it ain't entirely concrete. So he's stubborn and won't allow it, but apparently not too stubborn enough to pay out MILLIONs in settlement money. You realize that there have been C-level execs in almost every endeavor you can think of who have refused to pay people whose names are out there and more detailed allegations against them one damn cent. I assure he didn't want to do that AT ALL, but he knew he fucked up BAD. And there was no getting out of it. The same goes for him to stepping down as CEO. I guaran-damn-tee you he didn't want to do that.

It won't come down to Vince allowing people to do things, especially if continues to escalate at the rate it's going. Paying the settlement money and stepping down are huge examples of Vince slowly realizing this ain't the same American society it was 30 years ago. That speaks to what you're talking about and in reference to what the mainstream cares about. Mind you, society is still entirely fucked up. However, it's very much different. When the steroid trial was going on, he was everywhere from CNN to Donahue to this show and that show as Vince McMahon, chairman of WWF or w/e hell title he had at the time. He wasn't Vince McMahon, the commentator and talking head from TV. He was out here doing his own damage control, which in hindsight could have ended up much worse than it actually did. He actively wanted to make it seem like Vince vs. The World. He was as stubborn then as he is now if not more 30 years younger and wasn't going to allow other folks to mess with his baby, the World Wrestling Federation. He can no longer do that now. A Dana White can certainly do that. Hell, even Bob Arum at almost 100 years old can do that. Vince cannot do that because he's about to be in no man's land in terms of his reputation or whatever is left of his reputation being destroyed. He has zero credibility now. The ONLY way to get it back is if everything everyone printed in the last several weeks is untrue. You and I know that won't happen. Shit, 25% of it could be true and he would still be in the same terrible spot he is now. And you notice that there are no WWE higher ups actively coming to his defense to say everything is categorically untrue. This ain't a bullshit Konstantine Kyros lawsuit that McDevitt can eat up for breakfast. This is serious.

The mainstream doesn't have to know the comings and goings of what happens backstage at WWE. The mainstream probably thinks The Rock and Stone Cold are probably still active WWE performers. Doesn't matter. The WWE brand is bigger than Vince, and Vince always wanted the brand to be able to survive in the absence of anyone. That includes Vince, whether it be as the Mr. McMahon character, the exec, or the man behind creative. We're getting closer and closer to that point of no return. He can hold out as long as he wants to, but in the end, he WILL be removed out of any roles he currently serves in. The good ole days are over. Us as wrestling fans are entirely use to Vince getting his way that it's hard to accept the reality of certain situations. Vince has been a hell of a maneuverer (pun kinda intended, I guess), but he isn't different than any of these powerful figures past or present. There is saying in life that "it ain't a horse that cannot be rode, but there ain't a rider that cannot be thrown." Vince has been on that horse for what seems like forever, and the only logical conclusion is he gets tossed clean off and cracks his skull wide open on the ground.

[Dog]

1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

If he got through today, he's gotten through the worst of it.

What makes you think this is the worst of it?

[Elsalvajeloco]

1 minute ago, Dog said:

What makes you think this is the worst of it?

For all we know, this could be the um...best of it. History has taught us it can ALWAYS get worse.

[Dog]

None of us knew about this $7.5 million payout to a TALENT. What else don't we know? Shit, just think about the things we DO know. What if more people come out in support of Rita Chatterton's story, now that the climate is right?

This is clearly a pattern for Vince. No reason to believe there isn't more to come. How many women opened up about their Cosby encounters once that ball was rolling? Vince couldn't have gotten all his trysts/victims to sign NDAs.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Dog

[matt925]

It will get worse regardless. If one woman comes out publicly he’s sunk like a stone. I still feel the wrestler settlement is all that it took to end him. Perhaps the investigation will have to finish or whatever but he’s gonna be forced out eventually. 
 

The spin and damage control they’d have to do in that scenario is pretty interesting. They will obviously not talk about it, but he’s such a central figure for wwe’s identity. 

[Dog]

[JohnnyJ]

You really need to appreciate how rotten the whole family is. Steph and Trips have been sitting on the board for years. What are the chances they were left in the dark? How could they even look at this person? Meanwhile, as Vince is paying off his mistresses, Linda is lobbying for a “pro-family” political agenda.

Shane probably is the best of the lot. The worst thing he ever did was try to book himself to win the rumble. And if I’m being honest, I would’ve probably done the same thing. 

[Shartnado]

15 hours ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

The part about it being Christy Hemme that doesn't make sense to me, is that if you just got given $7.5 million...why would I then turn up at TNA pretty much the next day and stay for the better part of a decade?

This is the part I found conflicting with that theory as well, but actually getting the money more than a decade later would explain that.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

9 hours ago, Dog said:

What makes you think this is the worst of it?

This is a good point. I'm basing my line of thinking on this being the biggest bombshell to drop. But it's entirely possible worse will come out. Rita Chatterton, Ashley Massaro, the tanning salon woman in 2006. If the mainstream really dig in and uncover the details to any of these ones (or similar other instances not known to us), it's possible it could change my mind on how I see this playing out. But if this is the last bombshell that comes out, I'm still not seeing the needle moving.

 

 

10 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

There are a lot of people who fit that category who ultimately ended up not being in their original position they had. I assure you Donald Sterling and Jerry Richardson didn't want to sell their teams, and they had a lot more power than Vince had as the NBA and NFL respectively are more powerful than WWE.

True statements but neither apply. Sterling didn't own The NBA. Richardson didn't own The NFL. There's an extra layer of power at play here. Vince isn't a member of the organization. He is the organization.


 

 

10 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Us as wrestling fans are entirely use to Vince getting his way that it's hard to accept the reality of certain situations. Vince has been a hell of a maneuverer (pun kinda intended, I guess), but he isn't different than any of these powerful figures past or present. There is saying in life that "it ain't a horse that cannot be rode, but there ain't a rider that cannot be thrown." Vince has been on that horse for what seems like forever, and the only logical conclusion is he gets tossed clean off and cracks his skull wide open on the ground.

Everything you wrote makes total sense. But I'm still not seeing it being enough. If you were in charge, would you allowed for Vince to be at Smackdown last night? I know I wouldn't have. The uncomfortable feeling the performers are feeling now knowing this old scumbag based booking decisions on who would blow him has shattered any respect he used to command I would think. But here he is, still on the headsets in gorilla directing and giving feedback. Is that appropriate at this point knowing what we know? That's what I'm basing things on. No one in the organization has made it a priority to sit him down while the day this disgusting shit broke.

There's no Roger Goodell here. There's no CBA or owners bylaws here. There's a specific set of criteria that would allow the board to remove him, as worded by the verbiage of his employment contract. We're here. That criteria has been met. And no one with the ability to do anything, has. From my perspective, if they didn't yesterday why would they in a month or two? Unless worse comes out. If this is it, he's not going anywhere. His mother lived to like 106. He has crazy genetics. He's going to be there as long as he wants to be.

[HarryArchieGus]

I wonder if ppl continuing to support this company by subscribing to their on demand, buying tickets, t-shirts etc. feel any responsibility? 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

30 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I wonder if ppl continuing to support this company by subscribing to their on demand, buying tickets, t-shirts etc. feel any responsibility? 

I very seriously doubt it, only because I've seen a lot of extremely embarrassing "Stand Up For WWE"-type activity in the last 24 hours on social media.

[Kang]

The Netflix Vince McMahon Docuseries has been pulled and canceled.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Blue Dragon

[Elsalvajeloco]

3 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

True statements but neither apply. Sterling didn't own The NBA. Richardson didn't own The NFL. There's an extra layer of power at play here. Vince isn't a member of the organization. He is the organization.

Everything you wrote makes total sense. But I'm still not seeing it being enough. If you were in charge, would you allowed for Vince to be at Smackdown last night? I know I wouldn't have. The uncomfortable feeling the performers are feeling now knowing this old scumbag based booking decisions on who would blow him has shattered any respect he used to command I would think. But here he is, still on the headsets in gorilla directing and giving feedback. Is that appropriate at this point knowing what we know? That's what I'm basing things on. No one in the organization has made it a priority to sit him down while the day this disgusting shit broke.

There's no Roger Goodell here. There's no CBA or owners bylaws here. There's a specific set of criteria that would allow the board to remove him, as worded by the verbiage of his employment contract. We're here. That criteria has been met. And no one with the ability to do anything, has. From my perspective, if they didn't yesterday why would they in a month or two? Unless worse comes out. If this is it, he's not going anywhere. His mother lived to like 106. He has crazy genetics. He's going to be there as long as he wants to be.

He was the organization when it was being held up by Vince's money. It was when he was paying out his pocket to keep the promotion from going under. When you sign huge deals with both NBCUniversal and Fox, you are no longer the organization. When the UFC signed their first big rights deal back in 2010/2011, the UFC was basically Dana White, the Fertittas, and Joe Silva as matchmaker. They had Marc Ratner and some other people, but that was the core group in power in UFC. They (Dana in particular because he's a natural asshole as promoter) over the course of that deal learned quickly this ain't the same rodeo anymore. That overwhelming power that had in the Spike days was pretty much gone, which likely influenced their decision to sell in 2016 (keep in mind, they were looking to sell beginning in like 2013 or 2014ish). These rights deals are the reason folks believe WWE is going to be sold to a giant conglomerate sooner than later. The only thing holding it up is they're not going to get paid anywhere near what that original core power group in UFC got. 1.5 to 2 billion maybe.

When Vince does someday passes away, is WWE going to shut down? No, not at all. They will go on. Also, these conglomerates WWE signed these deals with operate on the fact that no one man will dictate what they do. They don't give a damn about Vince or give pro wrestling that respect, where someone can operate from the shadows after their persona non-grata. He will be ousted and if the WWE don't do it soon enough when the hammer comes down, NBCUniversal and Fox will make them do it. There is no way around it. If this was USA that only had Silk Stockings, La Femme Nikita, Chuck Norris movies, and Raw was doing 4, 5, and 6s in the ratings, Vince could ATTEMPT to go out in a blaze of glory on his way out. The WWE now isn't going to jeopardize all the money they're making over ANYONE. Vince, Steph, Ace, Paul, Prichard, or any of their performers.

There is no extra layer of power. That's something wrestling fans have created and can only perceive. The NFL would love to get rid of Daniel Snyder, but they cannot. There are likely several other folks in both the NFL and NBA would love to no longer be in ownership, but they cannot do anything about it. Folks wanted Sterling gone WELL BEFORE his scandal happened. There have been owners in major stick and ball sports that have survived major internal coups. Vince would need to be to survive one from within and one from the outside. There is like a 5 percent at best he would survive the former. There is ZERO percent chance he would survive the latter. If Jesse James don't get you, Frank James and the rest of the boys will. If Frank James and the rest of the boys don't get you, Jesse James will. The more that comes out about his perversion and his attempts to cover it up, the more he is up against it.

Yes, they can pretend it's business as usual all they want to. Hell, people who are about to be sentenced to life sentences commonly pretend it's business as usual as well. Don't mean they won't be sent off to jail. 

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

Saying Vince survived has survived the worst of this because he survived yesterday is like saying a pitcher has survived the worst of things going into the second inning of a game just because they managed to get out of a bases loaded situation in the first without any runs being scored.

That doesn't change that we're still in the second inning.

[Octopus]

1 hour ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Saying Vince survived has survived the worst of this because he survived yesterday is like saying a pitcher has survived the worst of things going into the second inning of a game just because they managed to get out of a bases loaded situation in the first without any runs being scored.

That doesn't change that we're still in the second inning.

Good example. Baseball players have also done steroids.

Edited July 9, 2022 by Octopus

[(BP)]

We’ll just have to see what happens. The past is history, the future is a mystery, and this moment is a gift. That’s why they call it the present. 

Spoiler

 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

It's not like I'm defending his actions. I'm just saying Stephanie McMahon, Triple H, Nick Khan, the other members of the board didn't take the kill shot yesterday. And they should have. And to me it's not crazy to think if they didn't yesterday, they wouldn't in the future. What came out in June should have been enough. What came out yesterday should have been enough. If we're only in the second inning and everyone is waiting for more, I ask you why? Is what's out not already enough? Is what's come out so far not enough to sink every single other example you guys have brought up?

Should Vince still be in charge of creative knowing he traded blowjays for pushes? And demoted women performers once the blowjays went away? Having that knowledge and letting him continue to stay in that role last night is irresponsible. Yet it happened. So I think people need to start looking towards politics to get an analogy for Vince, not sports owners. Every time Trump had a scandal the masses would say but THIS one will sink him. And it never did. I will refrain from anymore politics talk. But that's the Vince model. Yes everything he's done is fucking bad. But the things that would have sunk anyone else are rolling off him like water off a duck's back.

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

8 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

It's not like I'm defending his actions. I'm just saying Stephanie McMahon, Triple H, Nick Khan, the other members of the board didn't take the kill shot yesterday. And they should have. And to me it's not crazy to think if they didn't yesterday, they wouldn't in the future. What came out in June should have been enough. What came out yesterday should have been enough. If we're only in the second inning and everyone is waiting for more, I ask you why? Is what's out not already enough? Is what's come out so far not enough to sink every single other example you guys have brought up?

Should Vince still be in charge of creative knowing he traded blowjays for pushes? And demoted women performers once the blowjays went away? Having that knowledge and letting him continue to stay in that role last night is irresponsible. Yet it happened. So I think people need to start looking towards politics to get an analogy for Vince, not sports owners. Every time Trump had a scandal the masses would say but THIS one will sink him. And it never did. I will refrain from anymore politics talk. But that's the Vince model. Yes everything he's done is fucking bad. But the things that would have sunk anyone else are rolling off him like water off a duck's back.

So your argument is that because a company that has acted irresponsibly continues to act irresponsibly in the wake of worsening news, that's it and it's over?

We have literally no idea whether the television partners and corporations sponsoring WWE are looking into how bad this is and what steps they need to take.

We also have literally no idea if what came out yesterday is simply scratching the surface.

Maybe pump the brakes on going "welp Vince got off free AGAIN!" because he hasn't fucked off to a retirement village moments after a WSJ story posts. Like I said, we have no idea what's coming next, and the man thinks he's bulletproof. We're in for a long ride.

[NoFistsJustFlips]

I don't think anything I've said is crazy talk. They let a sexual predator who prayed on female performers remain in his position of controlling the performers yesterday. That's crazy. That's the sort of thing you act immediately on. Right?

I digress. I'm gonna take a break from this thread. My pessimism, which I think is based on the real facts of what's happening, seems to be rubbing people the wrong way. I'll just say I hope I'm wrong and I'll be the first one to pop in and post a celebration / you guys were right thankfully post if he does end up being removed 7 innings down the road.

[The Great ML]

Vince McMahon paid more for sex than he did to purchase WCW and the ECW IP. Amazing.

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

4 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I don't think anything I've said is crazy talk. They let a sexual predator who prayed on female performers remain in his position of controlling the performers yesterday. That's crazy. That's the sort of thing you act immediately on. Right?

I digress. I'm gonna take a break from this thread. My pessimism, which I think is based on the real facts of what's happening, seems to be rubbing people the wrong way. I'll just say I hope I'm wrong and I'll be the first one to pop in and post a celebration / you guys were right thankfully post if he does end up being removed 7 innings down the road.

So the sexual predator who preyed on female performers is also the person in charge of controlling the performers, and holds a significant majority of the voting interest in the company, so serious question:

Who tells him to leave? Who has the power to make him leave?

The only way this ends is if the company gets starved out. Meaning the TV partners cancel, the sponsors cancel, et cetera. The money will have to talk, because the current company structure has enabled his behavior since it was set up by... you guessed it... him.

That absolutely does not happen overnight, no matter how much people think it does. He's surrounded by sycophants and yes men and he's not going to go quietly. But the plus is that more cases are coming to light. That means more people think they might be believed if they tell their stories. That also means more people might be willing to consider having those NDAs they signed looked into and see if they can be broken, because what they went through was wrong and they know they weren't alone.

And without going too deep into my personal experiences because I really don't want to spill my purse onto the table, I'm speaking as someone who has survived sexual assault and nothing happened to protect me/nobody was willing to do anything about it, so I'd L O V E for him to get brought down here, but I'm also not foolish enough to think it's going to happen overnight.