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June 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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10 hours ago, Mister TV said:

Blassie was in Chicago with Volkoff, The Hollywood Fashion Plate’s bad throw cost poor Nikolai the winners share of the purse. 
 

The Big Event was a ticketed show, you had to buy ticket to get into the stadium, but you did get access to the Canadian National Exhibition. It was the opposite of what the WWF did at the Michigan and Ohio State Fair’s the year before. 
 

Here’s a little backstory on the show, also the CNE is one of those quirky Canadian things I’ve always wanted to go to. 
 

https://mapleleafwrestling.blogspot.com/2019/04/the-big-event-1986.html

AH, what a brain fart.  I forgot Blassie was in Chicago because I watched those matches a few days apart.

Thanks for the info and the link!  I'll check it out.  I remember looking up Toronto shows post Big Event and they didn't even run back Hogan/Orndorff despite (spolier) a screwy finish.  They did a tag with Hogan and Orndorff vs Piper and Orton and then switched to (I think) Hogan vs Kamala to finish out the year, to diminishing gates each time. 

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3 hours ago, zendragon said:

People say Bret took off house shows but he didn't that night

Not sure about the US but I think the combination of working in Germany plus with Austin meant he was going to give it his all.  He adored both so I can see him wanting to make sure it was a win for all involved.

As for Jeff I understand that addiction is a disease and I wish him well on recovering.  But when it comes to putting somebody's life in his hands the way wrestling does I hope for everybody's sake that he never wrestles again.

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2 hours ago, Technico Support said:

AH, what a brain fart.  I forgot Blassie was in Chicago because I watched those matches a few days apart.

Thanks for the info and the link!  I'll check it out.  I remember looking up Toronto shows post Big Event and they didn't even run back Hogan/Orndorff despite (spolier) a screwy finish.  They did a tag with Hogan and Orndorff vs Piper and Orton and then switched to (I think) Hogan vs Kamala to finish out the year, to diminishing gates each time. 

They ran Hogan & Piper vs. Orndorff & Orton at Maple Leaf Gardens only 9 days after The Big Event and drew 13,000, that's how hot the WWF was in Toronto. They most likely did the screwy finish at The Big Event for the VHS release, by the time the tape was in video stores Hogan & Orndorff were doing their blowoff match in a lot of cities. 

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1 hour ago, NikoBaltimore said:

As for Jeff I understand that addiction is a disease and I wish him well on recovering.  But when it comes to putting somebody's life in his hands the way wrestling does I hope for everybody's sake that he never wrestles again.

Jesus that's a bit extreme... He made a very poor decision and did something ethically and morally wrong. And it's not the first time he's done it. But how does driving drunk relate to him never being able to work again? So you're saying if he goes to rehab and gets clean, he still shouldn't ever be allowed to wrestle again? Come on. Dude has an addiction issue and we all want him to get better. But all these posts about him retiring or being banned from ever working again because of it are way overboard. Where's this same energy for Jimmy Uso who is guilty of the exact same thing (3 DUIs in 10 years)?

We need to put it in perspective here. He should absolutely be given extended time off to focus on getting better. But he didn't murder anyone. He didn't kidnap anyone. He isn't guilty of anything violent or anything involving another person being harmed in any way (luckily). So let's dial back the lifetime ban from the business stuff. This is the only job this guy has ever known. If you take that away from him do you really expect him to be happy & fulfilled enough in life to stay clean?

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EDIT:  Sorry for my post sounding harsh @NoFistsJustFlipsas I like what you post and everything.  But after looking at Craig's post I'm just going to refer to that since he said it much better than I could.

But the tl;dr of my part is for Uso I've had issues with him being pushed though didn't mention it much on here.  And I don't have an ax to grind regarding Jeff but at some point enough has to be enough.

Edited by NikoBaltimore
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23 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Jesus that's a bit extreme... He made a very poor decision and did something ethically and morally wrong. And it's not the first time he's done it. But how does driving drunk relate to him never being able to work again? So you're saying if he goes to rehab and gets clean, he still shouldn't ever be allowed to wrestle again? Come on. Dude has an addiction issue and we all want him to get better. But all these posts about him retiring or being banned from ever working again because of it are way overboard. Where's this same energy for Jimmy Uso who is guilty of the exact same thing (3 DUIs in 10 years)?

We need to put it in perspective here. He should absolutely be given extended time off to focus on getting better. But he didn't murder anyone. He didn't kidnap anyone. He isn't guilty of anything violent or anything involving another person being harmed in any way (luckily). So let's dial back the lifetime ban from the business stuff. This is the only job this guy has ever known. If you take that away from him do you really expect him to be happy & fulfilled enough in life to stay clean?

I mean, there were plenty of us that said the same thing about Jimmy Uso, but also joked nothing would happen considering how they handled his issues in the past. 

But also, Jimmy never had a fucking felony for drug trafficking, was never a meth head, never did stupid fucking shit like breaking his leg while fucking around on a dirt bike, etc. Also, it's not the only job Jeff has ever known. Jeff also has a band and makes music. What you're proposing, that if you take wrestling away from him that he won't be happy or fulfilled enough in life to stay clean is pointless considering that he's in wrestling now and isn't happy or fulfilled enough in life to stay clean and he's been like that for years.

Plus, this is wrestling and if you're wrestling all fucked up then you're endangering your opponent or teammate as much as you are yourself. At some point you give someone like this the benefit of the doubt and say, well, maybe something else was going on with them and that's why they behaved the way they did in the ring. But when it happens over and over again though, at what point do you look at that person as a liability and realize that it's far more dangerous to have them as an active competitor?

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I've only heard a bit of Jeff Hardy's music, but based on that small sampling, I'd say we're all safer with him staying a pro wrestler.

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6 minutes ago, Craig H said:

But also, Jimmy never had a fucking felony for drug trafficking, was never a meth head, never did stupid fucking shit like breaking his leg while fucking around on a dirt bike, etc.

Drug trafficking means taking large amounts of drugs and distributing them / planning to selling them. The charges are based on the quantity you poses vs actually doing any of those actions. So he had giant quantities of drugs. He never actually trafficked anything tho. I feel like that distinction is important here. Because all he was actually guilty of was having a shit ton of drugs. Harming himself, but no one else. Using that as a smoking gun to why what he did is more wrong than Jimmy is a little intellectually dishonest.
 

11 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Also, it's not the only job Jeff has ever known. Jeff also has a band and makes music.

That's a hobby. He's not paying the bills on music. He's blowing off steam and creating art, just like the weird painting and sculpture shit. None of those are jobs, it's just hobbies he does to escape reality.

 

13 minutes ago, Craig H said:

Plus, this is wrestling and if you're wrestling all fucked up then you're endangering your opponent or teammate as much as you are yourself.

We agree here. All we have are optics right now and optics can be deceiving. Was he fucked up from drinking or drugs at Double or Nothing? It's possible. And if he was then I'm 3000% on your side here. But all I'm saying is let's use actual proof to condemn instead of the eye test. Because the eye test can be a mirage. Concussions can look like being fucked up. So what's been reported could plausibly still be the truth.

 

16 minutes ago, Craig H said:

What you're proposing, that if you take wrestling away from him that he won't be happy or fulfilled enough in life to stay clean is pointless considering that he's in wrestling now and isn't happy or fulfilled enough in life to stay clean and he's been like that for years.

This is a fair point. He's getting fucked up now, so he has issues that need dealt with. But he doesn't get fucked up because he hates wrestling. He loves wrestling. Whatever the underlying issues are, my point is if you take his passion away from him it's going to be a much tougher road to actually getting better. It's making the walls close in on him. I get tough love and all that. But he has an addiction. If you take away something he loves, that's a good way to drive him further into his addiction. He'll feel like he has nothing left and go deeper into self medicating. And that's not a recipe for success on kicking an addiction and actually getting him healthy.

 

21 minutes ago, Craig H said:

But when it happens over and over again though, at what point do you look at that person as a liability and realize that it's far more dangerous to have them as an active competitor?

Here's my main point with this whole situation. I'm on board with you if he's working intoxicated. But no one has proven that he has. It looks like he did at the end of his WWE run. It looks like he did at Double or Nothing. And if it can be proven, action needs to be taken. But it's also plausible he wasn't drunk. DoN could have been the concussion. WWE could have been a bunch of things. Just because he hit his hot tag and left doesn't mean he was intoxicated. He wasn't wrestling like a drunk person. None of the heat he took that night was wonky. Maybe he was just in a weird headspace. Or maybe he was drunk. But let's not convict him of guilt sight unseen of any proof.

Drinking & driving has no bearing on how safe a dude's life is in his hands during a wrestling match. So everyone demanding his head on a spike due to being a liability in the ring really need to be armed with facts & evidence, and not just "I think" statements. I think he was drinking. I think he was fucked up. Okay well prove it and we're on the same page. Innocent until proven guilty, not the other way around. He should not be punished and kicked out of the business based on appearances.

The guy has an addiction and that shit is not easy to overcome. So instead of pilling on lifetime bans here, we should be focused on trying to help him. Not punish him. Thank you for coming to my TED Talk.

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Personally, Jeff has proven that he’ll say whatever everyone else needs to hear so they’ll leave him alone to wrestle and drive around fucked up. Him being regarded as a nice person actually underscores how dangerous it is to only judge someone by how pleasant they can be in superficial conversation. 

Professionally, he is the biggest main event fuckup in modern wrestling history. Everyone gave him multiple opportunities to get clean and work, and he made anyone who supported him look like fools over and over again. He doesn’t deserve the benefit of doubt that he isn’t working drunk or high.

As far as letting him work? That’s up to each promotion to decide for themselves, but it isn’t some failing of the wrestling industry if no one wants to hire him because they don’t want to jeopardize anyone’s safety or be the promotion where Jeff finally did himself in. 

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I'm gonna tap out on this one. I'll just end up blowing up the thread with post quotes and that's not good for any of us lol.

The above post by (BP) is sad to me. Addiction is a disease. And it's just not as simple as turning a light switch on and off. The biggest main event fuckup in wrestling history? Weird. There's a guy that murdered his whole family and himself. But Jeff is more of a fuckup than even him? Because he drove drunk? And wrestled high in 2011? Okay.

I've known close friends in the business that have dealt with addiction. Being harsh and judgemental is not as effective as compassion is. But you guys do you.

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7 minutes ago, Blue Dragon said:

Looks like (maybe) the MLW lawsuit is also responsible in a way for getting Stephanie Mcmahon "removed" from WWE.

Honestly that makes a lot of sense now that you mention it.

And with WWE officially working with Vice now, that makes their stance on the suit even weaker. 'How did we hurt MLW, we didn't even have an official relationship with Vice.' Well you do now, and it's really bad optics.

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18 hours ago, Octopus said:

New coworker is a young excitable 18 year old. He learned I like wrestling and has multiple times told me how excited he is to wear his John Cena shirt on the weekend. He’s a good kid and bless his heart, but fuck tell me once. Let’s not have this shirt be the recurring small talk.

Be happy,  I once had a coworker who's idea of small talk was to tell me about him and his wife's porn watching habits. I have no idea why he thought i was interested,  but he would bring it up on a regular basis. 

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14 minutes ago, Blue Dragon said:

Looks like (maybe) the MLW lawsuit is also responsible in a way in getting Stephanie Mcmahon "removed" from WWE.

Hilarious if true because Stephanie acting on her own to strongarm Fox is, in the immortal words of our poet laureate Gorilla Monsoon, highly unlikely.

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I know it's well within the realm of plausibility that there's something to the Double Or Nothing match turning out the way it did. That said, 2022 Jeff Hardy having a funky-looking botchfest absent substance use is also not an unbelievable occurrence. It'd be nice if everyone could lay off of jumping to conclusions on that one without anyone coming out and saying something. 

Edited by John from Cincinnati
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33 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

The above post by (BP) is sad to me. Addiction is a disease. And it's just not as simple as turning a light switch on and off.

Addiction is a disease, true. But it also isn't an excuse for shitty and dangerous behavior either, though.

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't Jeff out for a signing/appearance the night he was booked? I could've sworn I saw Matt posting a picture of him and D-Von and Jeff on Sunday night. If that's the case...why didn't someone stop Jeff from getting bombed and why didn't Matt have Jeff ride with him?

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Maybe somebody could’ve/should’ve seen something, but long-time addicts can be super fucking creative when it comes to their habits. Can be easier than you think to miss sometimes.

Edited by EVA
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If WWE gets hit with successful antitrust case,  WWE wouldn't be allowed to interfere with other wrestling promotions businesses anymore.

WWE would also maybe (less likely with AEW around now) have to split into least two promotions. Probably for example would be just selling and/or splitting off Raw and that brand and it's remaining tv assets but everything else stays with WWE.

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12 minutes ago, Blue Dragon said:

 

WWE would also maybe (less likely with AEW around now) have to split into least two promotions.

 

It would be pretty amazing for this company to be forced to change its name in 2002 and then be forced to split in half in 2022.

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1 hour ago, Casey said:

Addiction is a disease, true. But it also isn't an excuse for shitty and dangerous behavior either, though.

Yeah,  herpes is also a disease and its wrong to treat people poorly for having herpes, but if you decide to expose others to your herpes against their will it's a huge fucking problem. Jeff Hardy has a problem and we should be sympathetic to that problem,  but we don't have to be sympathetic when he puts others in harms way because of that problem. 

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