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6/1/2022- AEW DYNAMITE!


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I do think Khan is very aware of the risk. He's a guy who lived through 99-00 WCW. It's obvious they're trying to blur a line here. I imagine in Khan's mind, that's the sort of promo a UFC fighter or some other sport could make. "I was a walk on. You never got behind me. I'm delivering results. People are buying my merchandise. People are paying to see me play/fight. But the crowd still didn't give me respect and you didn't give me respect and it's too late now. I know what you're making off me. I know what you're paying these so-called stars from the other company/team." etc. That's not "Terry Bollea has used his backstage influence to convince the writers to hold back other people for decades and now he's going to lay down for Jeff Jarrett." or whatever. It doesn't mean it's good or right or smart or will have payoff or anything else, but it also shows me that Khan's aware and he's trying to walk a line to keep it within the fictional reality they've created while still playing on potential real life underpinnings.

Edited by Matt D
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2 minutes ago, Lawful Metal said:

Pay MJF it ain't my money.  There ain't no salary cap. 

Well.  The question isn't the money.  It's the added years that would come with it.  OR MAYBE IT'S ALL A WORK!  

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7 hours ago, A_K said:

The contract stuff. The WWE flirtation. The fan fest. The sign-mom. 2024. The plane ticket. The friction with Khan. It’s all a work. It always was a work. Now that’s established - MJF absolutely has no equal in this business of performance art. He had absolutely everyone eating out of the palm of his hand - not last night, since this all began. 

AEW originals going over the “ex WWE guys” is the ‘big arc’ they need.

P.s. — Punk is botching deliberately. Just so you guys know, you know?

CM Punk is purposefully messing up his Meltzer star ratings to elevate MJF. 

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13 minutes ago, hobo joe said:

Wardlow needs to stop beating the shit out of security jabrones and start beating the shit out of Scorpio Sky real quick

Between Wardlow and Miro they have at least two viable paths to immediately hitting the hard reset button on the TNT title situation. I’ll be disappointed if they don’t. 

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49 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Sorry dude but ex-WWE v AEW "originals" would suck.

Moxley's been there since day one. What makes him a WWE guy? Who determines which guys are WWE guys? The roster is made up of about 70% performers that have been in WWE. Then do all WWE guys become heels? So now Punk, FTR, Mox, Danielson, Ruby, Toni, Athena are all just heels now?

Also how do you run this angle on part of the show, but ignore it in other parts of the show? A civil war inside the company like this just takes over and makes everything else secondary. It's like Survivor Series time in WWE with brand supremacy that makes no sense. Or the Invasion where dudes like X-Pac are now considered the baby even as a heel vs Kidman who was a baby that was considered a heel. Like FTR & Miro hated how they were used in WWE. But we have to force them to be WWE guys now?

The logic just doesn't track. I also hate them using "AEW originals" when talking about the Hangman & Punk story. That's a full on ripoff of TNA and it didn't work then and it won't work now. People want to like the people they think are awesome, not be told hey you're not supposed to like that guy now because he was employed somewhere else first.

I'm fine with MJF running with this story. As a heel. And getting his comeuppance. But if it extends beyond that it will implode and make the product a chore to slog through.

First,  this is a boredom at work idea and no one should actually take it seriously. Second,  now I'm doubling down on why this is a good idea. 

The way this would work is that MJF and whoever eventually joins him would not only be heels to start,  but they'd be heels because of what you said above. Danielson,  Punk,  Moxley, etc. have been pretty clear on why they signed with AEW.  They gave no interest in turning this into an us vs. them angle. The issue is that MJF and his group have a point,  they've been grinding from the very first show trying to make a name for themselves and as soon as they start gaining momentum, these outsiders come in and immediately get pushed up the card. This needs to start small with just MJF, and people have to slowly start agreeing with him. For the most part everything will continue as usual for most of the card for up to a year.

The way this needs to work is that there needs to be a tipping point where the former WWE guys hold all of the belts, and one of them tries to injure Jungle Boy or Darby to keep the championship.  Whatever it is has to be so foul that they go to MJF's side and takes the crowd with him. Then everyone who was on the fence or wanted to stay out of it, can't realistically not fight for their place in AEW.  The build up needs to be long, but the blowout should be fairly short.

Up until this point,  MJF and whoever joins him are whiny heels who are bitching and complaining about their spot on the card. The ex-WWE guys are saying all the right things, but as they win more championships, they are turning up the viciousness while the originals are valiantly going out on their shields. After the tipping point, the ex-WWE guy has to cut a promo about how they aren't going to apologize for their actions,  because this is what it takes to be a champion. Then the originals,  who are now the faces, band together to get all the belts. As soon as Jungle Boy or Darby win the world championship,  MJF turns off him.  The end. 

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4 hours ago, S.K.o.S. said:

I initially thought MJF would be beating ex-WWE wrestlers to prove that he's better than them. When I think about it some more, though, I'm not exactly sure who that would be. Ex-WWE guys, who are faces in this company (because I agree MJF is still a heel), who can have matches (so probably not Wight or Henry), and who aren't currently tied up in their own angles (so probably not Christian).

Punk apparently came out to chase off MJF, and he fits all of the above, but putting MJF in a world title program right after he lost his last ppv match and pretty much just got through a feud with Punk doesn't seem like the move.

Maybe in storyline he's staying the heel for now and they are trying to mimic Austin post-King of the Ring, pre-WrestleMania 13. 

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40 minutes ago, Casey said:

Cody doing worked shoot promos on Tony Khan for paying "ex-WWE guys" more money than him? While he's 100% more of an ex-WWE guy than anyone else, since he had no prior indie experience or anything?

Yeah, maybe, but that feels like something he would have been doing if he was willing to be a heel, and not trying to cosplay as the love child of John Cena and Homelander.

Certainly not that aspect of it, but I could see the whole section about all friends wrestling and writing his own ticket working, the pay scale stuff would've been a little bit different but probably still relevant to the situation. Like I said, probably just a silly thought anyway.

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Watching that MJF promo was sublimely uncomfortable and I don't even know if I thought it was "good" in the moment, but like ten minutes later I realized I had just watched a segment that may well be talked about for decades to come. And I think a lot of that confusion comes from my having no idea where all this is going.

Something I thought a lot about during the wonky results of the last PPV - how much disappointment comes from a card not following somebody's prognostications & fantasy booking? So much of the discussion on this (or any) board is simply armchair booking, trying to guess what results are going to be and arguing your case for why your booking sheet would be more entertaining or profitable. Instead of arguing if the Warrior's halfcourt offense is gonna be stopped by the Celtics' screen-switching, we argue who's kissing the booker's ass the most and who's T-shirt sells the best. I do it too, but it's weird.  I remember going to Full Gear 2019 and every single match went exactly as I figured it would. I even guessed the match order. That show was rightfully considered to be a good one and I was bored out of my skull the whole time. But this is the exact opposite, and I think there are people who are getting legitimately frustrated by not being able to guess where this angle is going - due to the fact that so much of their interaction with pro-wrestling involves said guessing.  

"Give the people what they want, in a way they don't expect" vs. "Clever things make people feel stupid and unexpected things make people feel scared!" comes to mind, but it only makes sense if this actually turns out to be clever. We're 25 years on from Montreal and we've got all this goddamned context. How much of the response is colored by remembering old, awful worked-shoot stuff? Because this is not Russo level, at all. MJF did not win the AEW Championship in the middle of his promo like Hogan did when he put his foot on Jarrett.  I'd say this has a lot more to do with the worked-shoot stuff Cody was leaning into, and how it all ended up, which brings me to my next point...

Is it just pre-emptive grief in case MJF jumps ship? Trash everything he's doing now so it hurts less if/when pro-WWE Twitter trolls rub his 2024 Royal Rumble debut in your face? I know DVDVR has more of a perceived "right" to be AEW homers than anywhere else on the internet, I know a lot of us have chosen this company to be the main one we hang our fan hats on. But a lot of these angry, snap judgement are coming off as some jealous lover-type stuff. Saying "I hope MJF just leaves for New York right now"... I understand that there's a defensiveness that arises when the well-being of the company is laid this bare, but it kind of is what it is. People are gonna go and people are gonna stay. I'm of the opinion that at least they're making compelling television out of it. WWE apologists ran "wait and see" into the ground, but time will tell and I will listen with this angle.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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4 hours ago, Krone Meltzer said:

Didn't Cody explicitly state in a promo one time that he wouldn't turn face? AEW has always been the inside baseball promotion, so something of this ilk - if anything - is right in line with AEW in my opinion.

Edit - I meant to say Cody wouldn't turn heel, but let's be honest. It's funnier if I keep the mistake in.

Cody's rambling promos were worse because he would just start rambling about nothing. Or talk about ending racism.

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9 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Watching that MJF promo was sublimely uncomfortable and I don't even know if I thought it was "good" in the moment, but like ten minutes later I realized I had just watched a segment that may well be talked about for decades to come. And I think a lot of that confusion comes from my having no idea where all this is going.

Something I thought a lot about during the wonky results of the last PPV - how much disappointment comes from a card not following somebody's prognostications & fantasy booking? So much of the discussion on this (or any) board is simply armchair booking, trying to guess what results are going to be and arguing your case for why your booking sheet would be more entertaining or profitable. Instead of arguing if the Warrior's halfcourt offense is gonna be stopped by the Celtics' screen-switching, we argue who's kissing the booker's ass the most and who's T-shirt sells the best. I do it too, but it's weird.  I remember going to Full Gear 2019 and every single match went exactly as I figured it would. I even guessed the match order. That show was rightfully considered to be a good one and I was bored out of my skull the whole time. But this is the exact opposite, and I think there are people who are getting legitimately frustrated by not being able to guess where this angle is going - due to the fact that so much of their interaction with pro-wrestling involves said guessing.  

"Give the people what they want, in a way they don't expect" vs. "Clever things make people feel stupid and unexpected things make people feel scared!" comes to mind, but it only makes sense if this actually turns out to be clever. We're 25 years on from Montreal and we've got all this goddamned context. How much of the response is colored by remembering old, awful worked-shoot stuff? Because this is not Russo level, at all. MJF did not win the AEW Championship in the middle of his promo like Hogan did when he put his foot on Jarrett.  I'd say this has a lot more to do with the worked-shoot stuff Cody was leaning into, and how it all ended up, which brings me to my next point...

Is it just pre-emptive grief in case MJF jumps ship? Trash everything he's doing now so it hurts less if/when pro-WWE Twitter trolls rub his 2024 Royal Rumble debut in your face? I know DVDVR has more of a perceived "right" to be AEW homers than anywhere else on the internet, I know a lot of us have chosen this company to be the main one we hang our fan hats on. But a lot of these angry, snap judgement are coming off as some jealous lover-type stuff. Saying "I hope MJF just leaves for New York right now"... I understand that there's a defensiveness that arises when the well-being of the company is laid this bare, but it kind of is what it is. People are gonna go and people are gonna stay. I'm of the opinion that at least they're making compelling television out of it. WWE apologists ran "wait and see" into the ground, but time will tell and I will listen with this angle.

In the case of MJF, the man seems very pragmatic about his work, and he won't let noise on Twitter determine how he plays his character. 

Being honest, I don't want MJF to leave. I didn't want Cody to leave either. I simply wished Cody had a bit more awareness as his work and stopped doing all the "I will never turn" nonsense because of his daughter or some nonsense.

At the same time, I want MJF to do what he feels is right for his career, and if that means going to WWE at some point, so be it.

This MJF storyline though is a good example of why wrestling fans are cynical and pre-conditioned to believe everything is a work. Ever since the curtain got pulled back on wrestling, that's been the general MO. If it's on TV, it's a work. But when you can blur the lines like this, it can get interesting.

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1 hour ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

It sounds like a silly thought (and probably is) but when I was watching last night, I actually wondered to myself if what we're getting with MJF right now was the planned next step for Cody's character had he not left. The only difference, I suppose, is that theoretically he would have been coming off of the mixed trios match instead of the Wardlow match, but given that it was barely addressed it still could have made sense.

While it's a nice thought, a) the material and circumstances are so specific to MJF's reported real frustrations that there's no reason to think they'd have gone there with Cody, and b) Cody's been off AEW TV since late January (it's now June), so it's hard to project what he might have been involved in this far out.

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9 minutes ago, John E. Dynamite said:

Something I thought a lot about during the wonky results of the last PPV - how much disappointment comes from a card not following somebody's prognostications & fantasy booking? So much of the discussion on this (or any) board is simply armchair booking, trying to guess what results are going to be and arguing your case for why your booking sheet would be more entertaining or profitable. Instead of arguing if the Warrior's halfcourt offense is gonna be stopped by the Celtics' screen-switching, we argue who's kissing the booker's ass the most and who's T-shirt sells the best. I do it too, but it's weird.  I remember going to Full Gear 2019 and every single match went exactly as I figured it would. I even guessed the match order. That show was rightfully considered to be a good one and I was bored out of my skull the whole time. But this is the exact opposite, and I think there are people who are getting legitimately frustrated by not being able to guess where this angle is going - due to the fact that so much of their interaction with pro-wrestling involves said guessing.  

This is interesting because good storytelling is all about playing on the audience expectations. Being predictable is not a bad thing,  but being too predictable is a terrible thing. You should be telling stories where audience has a really good idea of what is coming next, but they should never be certain. On the other hand, if you're always switching things up, your audience won't trust you. Wrestling stories should be predictable, right up until the point where they are not. 

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15 hours ago, Casey said:

MJF is anything but a working class hero. He’s been presented for three years as a young rich little brat. That’s his gimmick across like, every promotion he’s worked for. He has Burberry everything for fucks sake. It’s like Dusty being a hero for the working class but he’s got this super expensive fur coat.

Just to jump back about a billion pages... I know this post was replying directly to one that said "Working Class Hero MJF", but on the topic of how MJF's rich kid gimmick doesn't line up with him wanting to be paid more: no one ever said MJF doesn't have two nickels to rub together. The news, and his promo to an extent, sounded like he was mostly upset with other wrestlers being paid more than him. That sort of does fit with his character. Like it's not that he really needs the money, he's just upset that he's not being recognized as the best.

If the goal is to keep MJF a heel, and I think it is, it'd be real easy for him to lose everyone's sympathy by saying something like "Can you believe Tony's only paying me a paltry $500,000 a year! I should be making millions!"

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Sometimes I think MJF is an all timer as a talker, and then other times I think he’s a complete hack. 

Like, the delivery is excellent. But the content, well it’s like the promo in Cincinnati on Pillman and his family. That content sucked and was as hackish and grade school heel as it gets.

Thats what last night kind of was to me. Great execution, great emotion, but God that content sucked. “The boys in the back”, really? We’re saying that?

If he’s writing his own stuff, he’s a way better actor than he is writer. If someone else is writing his stuff, he needs a new writer.

Great singer awful songwriter.

Edited by For Great Justice
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3 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

While it's a nice thought, a) the material and circumstances are so specific to MJF's reported real frustrations that there's no reason to think they'd have gone there with Cody, and b) Cody's been off AEW TV since late January (it's now June), so it's hard to project what he might have been involved in this far out.

I'm curious what the plan for the PVZ match would have been if Cody didn't leave, if it would have been Page/Sky/PVZ vs Cody/Sammy/Brandi or Cody/Frankie/Brandi or what.

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2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I'm curious what the plan for the PVZ match would have been if Cody didn't leave, if it would have been Page/Sky/PVZ vs Cody/Sammy/Brandi or Cody/Frankie/Brandi or what.

I can buy in to this. Cody and Sammy stop their bickering after ATT & Scorpio Sky take the belt. They join forces because Sammy at the time was an over young babyface and Cody is a Rhodes and can't help himself, thus they run the mixed tag with Brandi . I only assume this because Cody had already been pegged as the network-friendly guy with a classical style that could ease non-wresters onto TV (Shaq, Ogogo, Amell), Brandi might felt like she was owed one after missing the Shaq match, and Tay Conti's place in the storyline seems so shoehorned and unfortunate that I can only hope she was a late replacement. Or maybe they figured "Tay's legit enough to work with a shooter". Also seems like they didn't have a lot of wiggle room in regards to timing and creative due to PVZ's involvement so this is the version that falls closest in line to the original plans.

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I’ll be honest, my biggest complaint with MJF is the screaming. Every promo he’s just screaming. Someone needs to set him down and be like, look, you don’t need to be like Jericho when he returned to WWE as a heel in a suit, you don’t even need to be Jake Roberts, but the constant screaming needs to stop. 

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24 minutes ago, S.K.o.S. said:

 

If the goal is to keep MJF a heel, and I think it is, it'd be real easy for him to lose everyone's sympathy by saying something like "Can you believe Tony's only paying me a paltry $500,000 a year! I should be making millions!"

Nah.  This is a country full of temporarily embarrassed millionaires.  A large section of the population idolizes the rich.  We have people famous for no other reason than they have money.  Fuck, we elected a guy who just played a millionaire gimmick.  Ted DiBiase would be a babyface today.

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