Double or Nothing 2022 - Post Show Thread

[Hail Sabin]

Jericho got the biggest Boo of the night when he stopped Wild Thing from playing at our showing. 

[matt925]

I only tweet because that’s the easiest way I can figure out how to get photos from my phone to here. If there’s a better way please let me know. 
 

Im just starting to go through my stuff now, I get burned out after going to shows and like to think about completely different stuff. Getting old. Plus Vegas and I had a late flight yesterday and drank all day. Ugh. Crazy rich Asians slot machine was hot though. Made my morning. 
 

Thought this was an awesome sequence before I switched to video. 

[Garth]

Watched this with some buddies on Monday night and had a grand old time. I don't get to watch a ton of wrestling in company, and I definitely think it changes how I view the show vs. watching alone.

Watching it in this fashion, I most enjoyed were the Anarchy match. As others have said, loved the little nod to New Jack/Sandman with Wild Thing looping.
There was a part of me that hoped it would keep playing until Moxley finally made it into the ring, immediate finish and then starts back up for him to make his exit. Loved what we actually got though.

The other real stand out for me was the House of Black vs Death Triangle. Great breathless action.

The only thing that really bothered me was Cole and Baker winning their respective matches. Neither of them needed it, and Cole is probably my least enjoyed consistently pushed act in AEW. For what was Joe's first loss since joining the promotion, it felt so unceremonious and also doesn't really do anything for Cole?

Need to go back and watch the Deeb/Rosa & Hangman/Punk matches as we were talking all throughout and definitely felt me attention wane at points.

[Matt D]

I get a special feeling of joy whenever JR says "This guy is smart and never takes any unnecessary chances." only for him to immediately go up to the top rope and have something reversed, virtually seconds after JR says it. It's one of the most beautiful things in pro wrestling in 2022 and it's way more common than you'd think.

[HarryArchieGus]

18 hours ago, kafkonia said:

You don't put the world title on the Honky Tonk Man.

In all seriousness, MJF's entire appeal is that people want to see him get his ass kicked. While you can't let it happen too often or it loses the appeal, you also have to realize that nobody's going to pay money to watch him win.

Love the Honky Tonk Man comparison. Tho, he was the 'Greatest Intercontinental Champion of all time'. I like Friedman fine, but Main Eventing on these shows should be an exclamation point. MJef with the title seems like it would need to feature a lot of interference and overbooking. Wherever he goes from here I hope they put a moratorium on his character somehow booking all his feuds and running them like story mode in an N64 wrestling game. 

16 hours ago, A_K said:

Meltzer, who propagated the bullshit to begin with that worked over so many kind unsuspecting souls like fiddles, is now trying to monetize the new narrative of there being no flight after all?  You could not make it up.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the propagation of flight info and much of the weekend's MJF 'hysteria' was from that Sean Sapp dude. Dave spoke pretty cautiously about things on any of the shows I heard. Whatever Meltzer-hate-strange-jealousy ppl have his AEW news is pretty clearly tapping the correct sources.  

Edited June 1, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[w. josh]

12 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the propagation of flight info and much of the weekend's MJF 'hysteria' was from that Sean Sapp dude. Dave spoke pretty cautiously about things on any of the shows I heard. Whatever Meltzer-hate-strange-jealousy ppl have his AEW news is pretty clearly tapping the correct sources.  

Forget it, HarryArchieGus, it's Anti-Meltzerhysteriatown.

[HarryArchieGus]

6 minutes ago, w. josh said:

Forget it, HarryArchieGus, it's Anti-Meltzerhysteriatown.

I just revisited the reference source, and now I wanna see some nose-y 'Jake Gittes' type take a similar outer nasal slash.

[mystman]

If we're actually running with MJF =HTM, maybe the mods should reopen the Hot Takes thread. Cause that one's on fire.

[A_K]

1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the propagation of flight info and much of the weekend's MJF 'hysteria' was from that Sean Sapp dude. Dave spoke pretty cautiously about things on any of the shows I heard. Whatever Meltzer-hate-strange-jealousy ppl have his AEW news is pretty clearly tapping the correct sources.  

I don’t want to go near this point again as it is very boring now, but given you asked for a correction, sure, I can give it. Meltzer hosted an “emergency podcast” in which it was taken as given MJF was not turning up. Title should be put on Wardlow in a 3 way. Maybe try and get Goldberg in on 24 hour notice. Then reiterated MJF was not at building few hours before event .. was “doing a Pillman” etc. Just general juvenile lunacy, you know. They basically got worked like absolute fiddles by a performance artist. No “jealousy”, don’t worry about that, but very happy to  give a little info for you on a carny hack who has no genuine insight into any market movements but will try to monetize it regardless under the pretence of being a “journalist” at PW’s absolute carny worst  

Edited June 1, 2022 by A_K

[Belgian_Waffle]

In a different world where we aren't all so spoiled on wrestling catchphrases and soundbites, everyone on this forum would be adding JR's "What's next?? DIPPIN' DOTS???" to their profile signatures. 

[Curt McGirt]

My favorite JR moment during this one was him saying (about Fenix, I think) "He looks like the best Cruiserweight in the world... whatever that is."

[Belgian_Waffle]

Mostly I was glad he made it through the whole show without describing anyone as being from "the Orient". 

[Curt McGirt]

Just wait'll Forbidden Door. Methinks Kevin Kelly will be making an appearance in his stead. 

[NoFistsJustFlips]

Do Bischoff & Prichard share the A_K account? Jesus Christ dude we get it. At least they have a few hours of air time they're trying to fill. You're basically just spamming the meme of the dude pointing to his brain a bunch. No one cares.

[Matt D]

19 minutes ago, Belgian_Waffle said:

Mostly I was glad he made it through the whole show without describing anyone as being from "the Orient". 

Time itself seemed to slow down as he tried to describe Athena though.

[HarryArchieGus]

2 hours ago, A_K said:

I don’t want to go near this point again as it is very boring now, but given you asked for a correction, sure, I can give it. Meltzer hosted an “emergency podcast” in which it was taken as given MJF was not turning up. Title should be put on Wardlow in a 3 way. Maybe try and get Goldberg in on 24 hour notice. Then reiterated MJF was not at building few hours before event .. was “doing a Pillman” etc. Just general juvenile lunacy, you know. They basically got worked like absolute fiddles by a performance artist. No “jealousy”, don’t worry about that, but very happy to  give a little info for you on a carny hack who has no genuine insight into any market movements but will try to monetize it regardless under the pretence of being a “journalist” at PW’s absolute carny worst  

Ha, yeah, I agree Dave showed some awful shortcomings as a fantasy booker, but I don't see any issue with that or the 'emergency pod'. It was a breaking story that was clearly exciting posters here (see 'HOT'). Dave's 'Pillman' comments and updating on his arrival, if he knew what was up, played into the angle - so? I don't really see why either comment/tweet were serving any sort of injustice. To each their own, I find Dave to be an excellent historian and analyst. I don't read the Observer so maybe you have more insight into his modern day writing. He's not an orator or great broadcaster, but I nonetheless find the observer radio AEW post shows interesting/enjoyable to listen to. I don't share the same view of what's good and great and bad as Dave, but feel no reason to bury him for it. He's got his reasons and it's all pretty subjective, no? The job requires sources that could potentially mislead - not unlike a telephone game. Which is not so much problematic as it is lightly dubious, but nothing to get upset about. Dave's the definition of an incredible mega nerd, but that certainly doesn't mean he isn't without his charm. Again, to each their own. 

Edited June 1, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[Matt D]

I want to give credit too. I wrote 1000 words on Page vs Punk for SC for tonight and I'll say this: Excalibur is the only announcer in the main that was really working hard to get the story over. And it wasn't a simple story necessarily. Maybe that's because JR was so overbearing that it allowed Khan to feed Excalibur lines. I don't know. Regardless, he did a good job and deserves credit for it.

[HarryArchieGus]

2 minutes ago, Matt D said:

I want to give credit too. I wrote 1000 words on Page vs Punk for SC for tonight and I'll say this: Excalibur is the only announcer in the main that was really working hard to get the story over. And it wasn't a simple story necessarily. Maybe that's because JR was so overbearing that it allowed Khan to feed Excalibur lines. I don't know. Regardless, he did a good job and deserves credit for it.

I think you're right, but tact isn't always Excalibur's strong suit. Too often his storytelling comes off like he's trying to convince children. I long for the day that we either get a foreign language feed option or even better no commentary option.

[southofheavy]

My favorite JR moment from this show was when he said "God bless Ray Traylor." 

DAMN STRAIGHT, JIM. 

[(BP)]

I just remembered during the Wardlow intro when JR started an anecdote about Bill Watts saying big men draw money and Excalibur frantically stepped all over it before Ross could finish. 

[DangerMark]

I feel like most people have already covered the salient points, as well as some not-salient points, but I saw the show mostly spoiler free just now. 

The brawl was amazing. Million billion stars. Matt Menard, what a man. 

Hangman ME matches get a bit overwrought, but I'll allow it in on PPV. Kinda wanted him to win, but I can't really argue with Punk. 

I think I'm starting to get a finger on why I don't like Adam Cole: Is the Owen really the "most prestigious tournament in the world?" Come on, man, what a weird thing to say. Just go with "Owen Hart was awesome and I want to kick someone's head in," like a real human being. Plenty of internet ink has already been wasted on this man, though, so let's just pause to reflect on how awesome that brawl was. 

Has Rooooooosh ever worn a suit before? Feel like I have to ask because it looked like he needed a word with his tailor, and a four-letter one at that. 

DT vs. Blacks was, as my learned friend said, very much a Toryumon trios match and hella fun for it. Could have done with a whisper less lucha goofiness and a touch more Psycho Muscle Goblin vs. Head Kicking Pagan. That's where the money is, not Michael Jackson cosplay. 

I actually liked the three way tag title match. I was expecting to hate it but Starks and Hobbs are actually great, Keith Lee flipping to the outside looks cataclysmic and Swerve & JB are okay. JB needs to get sick Christian's shit already though. 

Wardlow has a great face. Powerbombs galore and a stretcher job were the order of the day. 

[Matt D]

I ended up writing around 1000 words about the main for SC, if anyone wants to read more of what I think about it.

Spoiler

I am relatively new to Adam Page. I hadn't seen any AEW until Punk and Danielson showed up and it's not like the blog has gone out of its way to cover 2010s NJPW. In fact, given the prevalence of that style in the overall community, one could argue that we went out of our way not to cover it. I like the interviews I hear from Page. I appreciate his social media presence. I admire that the guy has persevered through his issues and has been open with them. I think there are certain things he does very well in the ring. He emotes well. His stuff hits hard and clean. He brings a lot of energy and aggression and dynamism. We all liked the Archer match from earlier this year. In general, though, his matches kind of drive me nuts. He goes straight from punching and chopping to the fallaway slam/kip up/springboard clothesline spot, usually followed by a dive, and he never looks back after that. I don't know if it's taken from an all-bombs NJPW style I'm not familiar or just Brock-ism, and I get that I'm an outlier on both fronts, but the lack of mid-level offense that lets a match build before escalation really gets to me. There absolutely isn't one way to do things and there shouldn't be, but his matches somehow both seem to miss a chunk of something integral while still being overflowing with stuff. 

Meanwhile, CM Punk has been all over the promotion, and he's brought with him this sort of Neo-Bret-ism: slowing things down, fighting hard over the value and payoff of single spot, bringing the bodyslam back into wrestling, heavy focus on limb selling that reoccurs throughout a match and drives narratives, interesting match layouts that work around the commercial breaks. Danielson, on the other hand, has brought a sort of hard-nosed, forward pressing aggression that interfaces with whoever he's in the ring with. It meant that Page's matches with him ended up less of a clash of styles but instead a merging of them. 

In the ring, this match embodied the underlying stories of the program far better than the lead-up or promos or announcers had been able to present them. It felt like a battle between at least what I imagine the AEW of 2019 and 2020 to be and what the AEW of 2022, with a broader roster and more diverse inspirations, seems to be. Page had overcome his demons, overcome the challenges that plagued him in 2019 and 2020 and finally conquered the AEW that he helped create. In the meantime, however, he had taken months off for the birth of his child and the AEW he returned had grown and changed, in ways that were not at all aligned with his norms and values. Despite that, he had overcome Danielson, only to see that CM Punk was in the center of every promotional image, only to watch Punk lay down those bodyslams and start to pull things back to a world that he felt that the Elite had transcended, building back up old idols that they had successfully torn down, just as the successful NJPW of the 2010s didn't resemble the NJPW of the 80s or 90s and as the Young Bucks continuously have immense success tearing down the norms of traditional tag team wrestling. He finally won, finally reached the top of the mountain, only to realize that it wasn't everything he had hoped and dreamed for. He faced down the challenge of Danielson, a physical challenge, one based on hard work and toughness, only to realize that there was a more invasive, more perfidious challenge before him and his kingdom, in the preachings of Punk. And Punk, who was working with all of the younger talent, who was putting the time and effort in, who was trying to be a decent human being no matter how much of a strain it was when he's just naturally a grumpy bastard, didn't see why Page was so upset over a little thing like his heresy. But a king has to defend his kingdom, from ideas most of all, and Punk, more secure in his own skin after all he'd been through, realized he had the higher moral ground for once. And he acted upon it.

So the match, a match still between two crowd-favorites, between two babyfaces, became less about who would win and more about who was right? In the end, that mattered far more to Page than to Punk. Page had his doubts. Punk had arrogant assurance. Punk wanted to win more, but he had his ego and he believed in his values, and he was going to return Page's affronts within the match with ones of his own. As the match went on, it got both of them in trouble. It took both of their eyes off the ball and the fans, otherwise equal, united in expressing their frustration at either when that occurred. You rarely see that in a match where the fans were not booing the wrestlers, but instead passing judgment upon their actions. You'd see it more in older Japanese matches when someone took a liberty. Here it was when they stopped and taunted, when they refused to follow up but basked in the moment instead, when they tried to prove something instead of trying to win. Maybe, just maybe, Page could beat Punk in a wrestling match all things equal. There's no way in the world that Page could win a pissy bitching content with Punk, though. No one could. That's what he chose to fight, and in the end, after he tossed Punk over the table, after he watched Punk stumble about failing to hit Buckshots, after he hit a GTS of his own, he stood there in the center of the ring, belt in hand, living a Wrestlemania 8 Bret vs Piper moment, and completely lost and adrift. How had he gotten there? Who was he anymore? What had he fought so hard for? It certainly wasn't this. He tried to change course, tried to get back onto the path, but it was too late. 

So, yeah, I liked it.

 

Edited June 2, 2022 by Matt D

[Octopus]

Beautifully said, my friend.

[John from Cincinnati]

For anyone thinking something was up with Jeff

 

[porksweats]

1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

For anyone thinking something was up with Jeff

 

Even more proof Rick Knox is the worst ref in the game. Should've taken care of that immediately.