MAY 2022 Pro Wrestling Discussion

[sabremike]

4 hours ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

 

Yup. Just saw.. 

 

I had the grave misfortune to have been at that Raw and this was one of the worst matches I have ever seen live. They totally stunk out the joint.

[Elsalvajeloco]

23 hours ago, Technico Support said:

LOOOOL

That reminds me...I was watching Wrestlemania 1 over the course of the past few days and noticed most, if not all, of Mean Gene's "pre-match" promos were obviously taped sometime before the show, most likely at a different TV taping.  So many guys are wearing different gear than when you see them in the ring seconds later.  The worst offender was Windham and Rotundo, who cut both cut dull, seemingly a quaaludes inspired promos that BOTH end with a variation on "we're going to the ring right now."  But both were wearing their street clothes.  My guess of these being taped at an earlier TV was because Bruno was literally wearing his announcer getup, complete with WWF logo blazer, but was wearing a sweater to the ring right after that.

Need to check @Dolfan in NYC's excellent Mania review thread to see if he caught that,

I think another notable example is the first WWF Main Event in 1988 with the Hogan/Andre Hebner angle and title switch. Hogan does his interview with the older version of the WWF title and then during his entrance, the WWF winged eagle belt makes it's debut or at least one of its first appearances.

A lot of those were either taped the day of (probably when people got to the arena hours earlier) or the day before.

Obviously with the taping cycle back then, you got a lot of continuity issues. I mean the first SNME was taped like a few days or a week earlier. However, as they progressed, they moved to taping them about a month or so before airing. I'm guessing because NBC wanted to micromanage everything since they were handling the lionshare of the production. Then, at some point, WWF probably had enough of that and just taped SNME while they were also taping Superstars. You see the Superstars banner hanging in the background. 

[SirSmUgly]

I don't think HHH and Undertaker had very good chemistry. That's a hot take, I'm sure, but I wasn't a fan of their latter WM matches. I liked the first one well enough, but it was a junk brawl full of plunder. I wouldn't put it on a best-of list, but it was decent. It aged somewhat poorly because of all the wandering and the fact that plunder use is overdone now, but eh, it's good enough.

But every other match they had, I'm out on.

I was wondering though: Who is HHH's best opponent? I think his best match was with Bryan, and literally that was the only time I've ever seen HHH work someone and think, "Man, I'd love to see them do a series!"

I'm going to throw Owen Hart out there as a possibility because they had some pretty solid, fun matches together. I think the answer is not an answer that most people would instinctively give like Batista or Michaels or whomever, though. 

[Niners Fan in CT]

1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

was wondering though: Who is HHH's best opponent?

For me.. The Rock or Foley.

[(BP)]

I’d go with Foley as Hunter’s best opponent because their matches allowed him to be both Ric Flair and Harley Race in ways that made sense.  

[Technico Support]

2 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

You see the Superstars banner hanging in the background

Aw man, "special" shows that just looked like any other Superstars episode are so depressing.  I was watching the first Royal Rumble (I know it wasn't a PPV) and there's nothing different at all about the setup.  It just looks like any other show with the light blue banners with the yellow logo on them.  Nothing says "this show is nothing special" like making a big event look just like a TV taping.

Some people are into title histories; I'm into arena presentation.

[Niners Fan in CT]

4 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Some people are into title histories; I'm into arena presentation.

Pretty sure nothing will ever top Halloween Havoc presentations..  my favorite part of WrestleMania is the stage setup.. the Rollercoaster setup they did about 5 years ago was really cool..

But sometimes it's the simple things too.. MSGs setup when they come out of the hard camera entrance was TOUGH. The fans being right there on either side as they come through really awesome  

[tbarrie]

54 minutes ago, (BP) said:

I’d go with Foley as Hunter’s best opponent because their matches allowed him to be both Ric Flair and Harley Race in ways that made sense.  

It also got Hunter over as a heel after a fairly lengthy period of the WWF unsuccessfully trying to ram him down the fans' throats. So good answer.

[SirFozzie]

I'm honestly not sure whether this post should be made in this thread, in it's own thread, or not at all, because it's Wrestling Twitter, but it was on my feed last night (and I don't follow a ton of wrestling accounts there, so it was an unpleasant surprise). Apparently one of the second-rate dirt sheets apparently decided to set his career on fire with slamming AEW and specifically Nyla Rose, with a tweet about "how AEW put the Women's strap on a male". (linked instead of embedded to prove the quote is real, while denying him views from everyone in this thread. Click it if you want to see it.

https://twitter.com/ringsidenews_/status/1529091693856931843

Personally, I thought Nyla handled it great, turning the line around into a joke. "You said strap on...".. while the rest of twitter gave the idiot a good old fashioned (and richly deserved) shit-kicking. But I just want to get something off my chest. And that is respect. I am friends with a trans male, and I cannot understand why people deliberately use someone's "deadname", unless it's to be an asshole. And don't try to tell me "Well, that's their name." You don't have any carny movie outsiders making sure to tell you Tom Cruise's birth name with Tom Cruise Mapother the IV. (yes, that's his real name). It's only polite. I don't see any reason to do that with anyone, so when I see it, my instant determination is that you're doing it to be an asshole, and I will judge them accordingly.

 

[Elsalvajeloco]

36 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Aw man, "special" shows that just looked like any other Superstars episode are so depressing.  I was watching the first Royal Rumble (I know it wasn't a PPV) and there's nothing different at all about the setup.  It just looks like any other show with the light blue banners with the yellow logo on them.  Nothing says "this show is nothing special" like making a big event look just like a TV taping.

Some people are into title histories; I'm into arena presentation.

How about the actual Superstars/Wrestling Challenges from 93/94 where due to the venues they're becoming smaller (mid-sized arenas and some of the Northeast favorites in like Lowell, Mass and Burlington, Vermont) the goddamn banner overhead clearly made for 15k and 20k seat arenas is damn near in the ring? Now THAT is depressing.

But yeah...it's more noticeable around the Mega Powers exploding where they stop doing the special intros for SNME with the chroma key background and just go straight into the show. Then, by 1990, most of those SNME/Main Events cards are HOT garbage in ring wise and production wise. You can obviously tell WWF is riding that Hulkamania/going national boom high and outgrown their mentor/mentee relationship with NBC. The show had stopped becoming a priority.

That said, March to Wrestlemania/Survivor Series Showdown/Summerslam Spectacular/Sunday Night Slam specials were much better in terms of overall quality. Granted, they usually stunk in the ratings which is why they stopped doing them. In addition, they had the same problem they had with SNME where they stopped doing tapings centering around them and would tape them during a 5 hour Raw taping in like Poughkeepsie, NY or Delhi, NY or some shit. 

[Shartnado]

9 hours ago, mystman said:

If I'm remembering it correctly, it was RVD.

I think it was Flair, actually, on the night of the handing over the title, but RVD was the first actual challenger he fought!

[sabremike]

20 minutes ago, SirFozzie said:

I'm honestly not sure whether this post should be made in this thread, in it's own thread, or not at all, because it's Wrestling Twitter, but it was on my feed last night (and I don't follow a ton of wrestling accounts there, so it was an unpleasant surprise). Apparently one of the second-rate dirt sheets apparently decided to set his career on fire with slamming AEW and specifically Nyla Rose, with a tweet about "how AEW put the Women's strap on a male". (linked instead of embedded to prove the quote is real, while denying him views from everyone in this thread. Click it if you want to see it.

https://twitter.com/ringsidenews_/status/1529091693856931843

Personally, I thought Nyla handled it great, turning the line around into a joke. "You said strap on...".. while the rest of twitter gave the idiot a good old fashioned (and richly deserved) shit-kicking. But I just want to get something off my chest. And that is respect. I am friends with a trans male, and I cannot understand why people deliberately use someone's "deadname", unless it's to be an asshole. And don't try to tell me "Well, that's their name." You don't have any carny movie outsiders making sure to tell you Tom Cruise's birth name with Tom Cruise Mapother the IV. (yes, that's his real name). It's only polite. I don't see any reason to do that with anyone, so when I see it, my instant determination is that you're doing it to be an asshole, and I will judge them accordingly.

 

I don't understand why such a thing would even be an issue in pro wrestling. It's not a competitive sport and while an athletic endeavor is predetermined and closer to acting. And speaking of acting wonder how many people are familiar with this:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caroline_Cossey

[Elsalvajeloco]

37 minutes ago, Niners Fan in CT said:

Pretty sure nothing will ever top Halloween Havoc presentations..  my favorite part of WrestleMania is the stage setup.. the Rollercoaster setup they did about 5 years ago was really cool..

But sometimes it's the simple things too.. MSGs setup when they come out of the hard camera entrance was TOUGH. The fans being right there on either side as they come through really awesome  

Nowadays (less in the case of AEW) all the arenas pretty much look the same, which is why there is no uniqueness to them. The minute I turn on SuperBrawl 1993 or like the WCW Nitro where Sting tells the fans to stick it, I can tell INSTANTLY they're in the Asheville Civic Center. No other arena looks like it. Same with MSG with the tunnel facing the hard camera (which Prichard hates lol). Same with Hersheypark Arena and Boardwalk Hall. 

Unless it's in some arena where they have the championship banners in the rafters with recognizable teams, I couldn't tell you where these shows emanate from.

[The Natural]

I'd go with Mick Foley as Triple H's best opponent.

[Wyld Samurai]

Foley followed by HOG or Wildman Marc Mero have my votes for HHH's best opponents. 

[Go2Sleep]

Mick Foley is everybody's best opponent. He's the O Negative blood of pro-wrestling.

I actually like The Rock has HHH's best opponent just because their ascents to the top of WWE lined up perfectly. Foley gave HHH a better series of matches, but Rocky and Hunter crossing paths at every level up the card was uniquely cool.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

2 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

Mick Foley is everybody's best opponent. He's the O Negative blood of pro-wrestling.

I actually like The Rock has HHH's best opponent just because their ascents to the top of WWE lined up perfectly. Foley gave HHH a better series of matches, but Rocky and Hunter crossing paths at every level up the card was uniquely cool.

That doesn't happen enough.

Flair/Steamboat

Booker/Steiner

Bret/Shawn

 

[eikerir]

12 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I don't think HHH and Undertaker had very good chemistry. That's a hot take, I'm sure, but I wasn't a fan of their latter WM matches. I liked the first one well enough, but it was a junk brawl full of plunder. I wouldn't put it on a best-of list, but it was decent. It aged somewhat poorly because of all the wandering and the fact that plunder use is overdone now, but eh, it's good enough.

But every other match they had, I'm out on.

I was wondering though: Who is HHH's best opponent? I think his best match was with Bryan, and literally that was the only time I've ever seen HHH work someone and think, "Man, I'd love to see them do a series!"

I'm going to throw Owen Hart out there as a possibility because they had some pretty solid, fun matches together. I think the answer is not an answer that most people would instinctively give like Batista or Michaels or whomever, though. 

Their first WM match (17) was probably their best since it was before the time of trying to make everything extremely dramatic, epic and LONG. I was at WM 28 for the HIAC which was alright but oh god the drama and non stop sad faces was too much.

Foley is probabbly HHH's best long term opponent. Bryan's match is my favourite HHH match but as it was a one off I went with Foley instead.

[Technico Support]

9 hours ago, Elsalvajeloco said:

Nowadays (less in the case of AEW) all the arenas pretty much look the same, which is why there is no uniqueness to them. The minute I turn on SuperBrawl 1993 or like the WCW Nitro where Sting tells the fans to stick it, I can tell INSTANTLY they're in the Asheville Civic Center. No other arena looks like it. Same with MSG with the tunnel facing the hard camera (which Prichard hates lol). Same with Hersheypark Arena and Boardwalk Hall. 

Unless it's in some arena where they have the championship banners in the rafters with recognizable teams, I couldn't tell you where these shows emanate from.

I will never not recognize the Baltimore Arena 1) because it's my hometown building and the first place I ever saw live wrestling and 2) because of its weird-ass ceiling.  It's apparently closed for renovations and I honestly can't believe it's still around, since it was built in 1961.  I'm guessing not having a major league tenant means there hasn't been anyone to demand the city and the taxpayers build something new.

 

 

[For Great Justice]

That’s why I do like AEW running college basketball arenas. They’re more unique than the pro arenas, which are all cookie cutter these days. Plus you usually get the college logo right under the main scoreboard above the ring, so you know exactly where you are.

Those ~8k college arenas are a sweet spot for pro wrestling. Much better than the 20k’s.

[Brandon Bones]

1 hour ago, For Great Justice said:

That’s why I do like AEW running college basketball arenas. They’re more unique than the pro arenas, which are all cookie cutter these days. Plus you usually get the college logo right under the main scoreboard above the ring, so you know exactly where you are.

Those ~8k college arenas are a sweet spot for pro wrestling. Much better than the 20k’s.

It beats having to curtain off half an arena for the sake of vanity.

[JLowe]

For the arena fans, WWE has traditionally run their Austin shows at the Frank Erwin Center (aka the Drum). This was closed last year and the upcoming show will be at the brand new Moody Center, which I believe is a little smaller and set up to serve as a better concert venue in addition to being a basketball arena.  I imagine they'll mention that on the program as well.

[caley]

8 hours ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Foley followed by HOG or Wildman Marc Mero have my votes for HHH's best opponents. 

As an aside, I was watching a Monday Night Raw battle royal to determine the new #1 contender to the intercontinental title and Godwinn was in there and, early on, Jerry Lawler refers to him -seemingly derisively- as "Hog Man" and for some bizarre reason Vince McMahon then proceeds to call him "Hog Man" for the entire rest of the match, as if he's forgotten his wrestling name and thinks "Hogman...yeah that seems like the name we probably came up with for him!"

Edited May 25, 2022 by caley

[porksweats]

If we ignore the obvious answer of Foley, The Rock is HHH's top opponent though of more recent years? I'd have to give it to Sheamus.

[AxB]

The thing about Foley vs Trips is, they kept going back to it because H couldn’t get over by himself. Undercard loser you want to get to IC level? Foley feud. Midcarder you want to be a B-level opponent for the main eventers? Foley feud! B-level player getting his first run as World Champ? Foley feud! Replacement Ace now Rock and Austin are gone? Foley feud!!!