Double or Nothing IV - 5/29/2022

[Octopus]

Just now, A_K said:

It's a work.

To your credit, just because it would be arguably bad business (as others pointed out) if it was a work doesn’t mean it isn’t a work. 

[RIPPA]

1 minute ago, A_K said:

It's a work.

We get it - you believe this

Stop posting it every 5th post

[EVA]

The purpose of a work is to draw money. Unclear how making people question if you’ll be able to deliver one of your top two matches on the eve of the PPV helps AEW draw money.

[Jiji]

Speaking of Pillman:

Octopus, you aren't alone in that thought. 

[Octopus]

2 minutes ago, EVA said:

The purpose of a work is to draw money. Unclear how making people question if you’ll be able to deliver one of your top two matches on the eve of the PPV helps AEW draw money.

 

[HarryArchieGus]

Re: MJF-Wardlow
Due to the clear fan interest/heat, overall, I look around and feel positive on the Wardlow-MJF feud. That said, I can't help finding myself thinking about what a ridiculously convoluted storyline this is. So incredibly stupid. I also can't help being reminded how repetitive MJF's feud story arcs are. An arc that feels like it's been taken liberally from a wrestling video game.  

Re: MJF
Talented guy, but completely overrated. Where is MJF on people's radar without his current push and protection? Max stood out in MLW before he got to AEW, but he was a very sloppy and a very silly (see selling, bumping) performer. In AEW they wisely kept him out of the ring as much as possible as to not expose his lack of in-ring acumen. During that time, working alongside some incredibly talented mentors, he certainly got a whole lot better. It also helped exponentially to be paired with top guys who could lead and teach. Kudos for making good on that, but where is he without that push? Where is MJF without being able to simmer his heat without cumuppance for seasons at a time? I'd love to see how he would do with the juvenile-style WWE material and working matches 3-4(?) times a week. I'd rather that than another you have to go thru all these hard asses to have a match with me storylines. The Moxley feud was the worst of his title reign, the Jericho storyline dragged on forever, and the Wardlow feud is well bought into rinse/repeat. Props for the Cody feud. One of those story arcs is fair.

[A_K]

4 minutes ago, EVA said:

The purpose of a work is to draw money. Unclear how making people question if you’ll be able to deliver one of your top two matches on the eve of the PPV helps AEW draw money.

Its drumming up interest for what has been, even by the accounts of the most devoted AEW fans here, one of the more underwhelming PPV lead-ins. People will be intrigued to see whether he turns up, and how the angle plays out 

 

4 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

We get it - you believe this

Stop posting it every 5th post

Cool - final word on it then until PPV plays out. We'll see what outcome is shown to have been more "believable" after the fact - the Carny Dave route of "OMG Chaos! Quick, give Wardlow the title! Quick, get Bill Goldberg here NOW!", or that the guy who works the industry the most of any of these guys with his 24/7 in-character representation is - shock horror - working everyone again (with AEW's endorsement, of course).

Edited May 29, 2022 by A_K

[EVA]

1 minute ago, A_K said:

Its drumming up interest for what has been, even by the accounts of the most devoted AEW fans here, one of the more underwhelming PPV lead-ins. People will be intrigued to see whether he turns up, and how the angle plays out 

 

 

Right, so...they’re drumming up interest by making people think one of the few matches people are excited for won’t happen?

[matt925]

7 minutes ago the official aew Twitter account tweeted the mjf vs wardlow match graphic to advertise the ppv tonight, then at some point between then and now they deleted it. 

[EVA]

Probably a scheduled tweet somebody forgot about.

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

I suppose I'm missing something but I never saw MJF as this generational talent that some see him as. I've always seen him as a Twitter troll brought to life that works so-so to good matches. You could take his gimmick and put it on a bunch of people and I literally wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Heck, at this point, you could plug Max Caster into the same spot and give him the same push and he'd probably get just as over as MJF is now.

I guess what I'm saying is... if MJF walks, good for him for standing up for himself, but my heart won't be especially broken.

[hobo joe]

If I'm TK, I do whatever I have to do to get MJF at the show tonight, then either:

A) Freeze his ass out for two years

B) Release him

Good for MJF though, he obviously wants more money without adding time to his contract and this is his leverage to get it, but Tony's gotta call his bluff. 

[hobo joe]

But don't pretend MJF isn't the best heel in wrestling

[The Natural]

Five months into the year:

Cody Rhodes leaves AEW and returns to WWE.

Big falling out between Kota Ibushi/NJPW.

Sasha Banks/Naomi walk out on WWE.

MJF/Tony Khan relationship breakdown.

Edited May 29, 2022 by The Natural

[HarryArchieGus]

1 minute ago, Stefanie the Human said:

I suppose I'm missing something but I never saw MJF as this generational talent that some see him as. I've always seen him as a Twitter troll brought to life that works so-so to good matches. You could take his gimmick and put it on a bunch of people and I literally wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Heck, at this point, you could plug Max Caster into the same spot and give him the same push and he'd probably get just as over as MJF is now.

I guess what I'm saying is... if MJF walks, good for him for standing up for himself, but my heart won't be especially broken.

Completely agree. I was thinking Ethan Page, but Max Caster is a nice thought too.

[EVA]

Please go rewatch MJF vs Jungle Boy and Darby on PPV and get back to me on these wack assessments of MJF’s in-ring. He’s fantastic when he gets the green light to go.

Edited May 29, 2022 by EVA

[Technico Support]

I fully agree with everyone who’s not buying the MJF hype.  There’s nothing generational or amazing about him IMO.  Most of the time he comes off as a guy whose gimmick is “pro wrestling heel” instead of actually being a heel.  A guy who is actually great in the mic doesn’t have to tout on promos how good on the mic he is.  Just a bunch of self conscious, fourth wall breaking bullshit.  For every promo that works, there are four that are corny and cheap.  

[Guest Stefanie Without Stefanie]

2 minutes ago, EVA said:

Please go rewatch MJF vs Jungle Boy and Darby on PPV and get back to me on these wack assessments of MJF’s in-ring. He’s fantastic when he gets the green light to go.

Those fell towards the "good" side of what I mentioned, but that was more thanks to Jungle Boy and Darby for me.

[Octopus]

9 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

I suppose I'm missing something but I never saw MJF as this generational talent that some see him as. I've always seen him as a Twitter troll brought to life that works so-so to good matches. You could take his gimmick and put it on a bunch of people and I literally wouldn't be able to tell the difference. Heck, at this point, you could plug Max Caster into the same spot and give him the same push and he'd probably get just as over as MJF is now.

I guess what I'm saying is... if MJF walks, good for him for standing up for himself, but my heart won't be especially broken.

More time for Peter Avalon and the Wingmen 

[EVA]

Those matches were WAY better than good. And MJF was every bit those guys’ equal in them.

Edited May 29, 2022 by EVA

[RIPPA]

17 minutes ago, A_K said:

Cool - final word on it then until PPV plays out. We'll see what outcome is shown to have been more "believable" after the fact - the Carny Dave route of "OMG Chaos! Quick, give Wardlow the title! Quick, get Bill Goldberg here NOW!", or that the guy who works the industry the most of any of these guys with his 24/7 in-character representation is - shock horror - working everyone again (with AEW's endorsement, of course).

Your Meltzer hatred aside - my point was more specifically focused on the posts that just said "work", "it's a work".

They aren't adding anything to a slog of a thread that is probably gonna be over 20 pages before the PPV even starts.

[HarryArchieGus]

27 minutes ago, EVA said:

Please go rewatch MJF vs Jungle Boy and Darby on PPV and get back to me on these whack assessments of MJF’s in-ring. He’s fantastic when he gets the green light to go.

Dig both of those matches with those very talented dudes. I don't think you're wrong, but how does he do with lesser workers like Brian Pillman Jr? I'd like another example, but he's so heavily protected that he doesn't have any other matches with lesser workers outside of the occasional weak squash bout. The Guevera match was another good example of his abilities. Mostly a good match with the extremely stupid avalanche piledriver for a 2 count followed by a weak finish. Also, clearly held his end of the bargain in the Punk feud. I wouldn't suggest he hasn't gotten good in-ring, but I think there's still some question marks as to the depth of that talent. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[A_K]

2 minutes ago, RIPPA said:

Your Meltzer hatred aside - my point was more specifically focused on the posts that just said "work", "it's a work".

They aren't adding anything to a slog of a thread that is probably gonna be over 20 pages before the PPV even starts.

A disdain for people who try to financially profiteer by creating fantastical scenarios that in no way shape or form are rooted in any semblance of fact (with the occasional sporadic self-admitting lines of "well, actually we don't know a thing that's going on here") is all. Anyway, let's see what happens tonight.

Edited May 29, 2022 by A_K

[Octopus]

MJF cool or meh isn’t entirely the full issue (which is a discussion I would LOVE to read from you all). It is also the possibility of Wardlow losing his crowning moment that is years in the making.

[Jiji]

16 minutes ago, EVA said:

Please go rewatch MJF vs Jungle Boy and Darby on PPV and get back to me on these wack assessments of MJF’s in-ring. He’s fantastic when he gets the green light to go.

He's in three of the best 1v1 straight wrestling matches in AEW's short history between Punk on Dynamite, Darby and Jungle on PPV. He is a great blend of old and new schools in the ring and while he doesn't always hit with his trolling, he's clearly a generational talent on the mic.