Double or Nothing IV - 5/29/2022

[(BP)]

I don’t see how doing business this way is going to give Max an advantage with WWE. I doubt they absolutely wouldn’t hire him, but after the last couple weeks who knows where Vince’s head is about “professionalism.” They screw with people just to see how they react all of the time anyway; I’d imagine he’d be booked like shit and frozen out of some of the backstage culture for the first year so they know how he’ll handle it.

Anyway, TK needs to look in his couch cushions for some Jarrett payoff money so Wardlow can steamroll Max, then they can say Wardlow bribed Sterling to put a loser leaves town clause in the contract. I can’t think of a single substitute that would smooth any of this over (maybe I’ll be wrong by the end of the day.)

I would like to know how much money Goldberg would want for taking a power bomb on no notice. The best part of using him to sub for Max would be a Sterling promo about how MJF couldn’t make it but he ran into a distant cousin at Shabbat services. 

[Jiji]

Good lord this is dumb. How are you going to let your most important long-term piece that you've invested so much time and energy in, particularly at this moment, get so low in morale that this happens? And then you piss off consummate professional Samoa Joe at the same time. TK most definitely in his flop era. 

From what we've been told by the person with the most consistency on the situation is that the whole falling out started over an interview with Ariel Helwani that wasn't cleared. Why does an independent contractor have to clear such a thing? Fuck off. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Jiji

[A_K]

Carny Dave in his absolute carny element. Run "emergency" podcasts where you admit you know absolutely nothing about the situation, but come up with fantastical hypotheses like Wardlow winning the world title in a 3 way dance (??) or Bill Goldberg being hired at 24 hours notice to job to Wardlow (??!!) with less-than-nothing to them. Who pays for this stuff.

Its also comically a work, but this feud as I mentioned at the outset always created a difficult path forward for Max as he'd have had 0 gold, and have lost consecutive major feuds -- the latter of which he's been physically over-awed in. Also its worth saying that there is absolutely no knowledge of how over Wardlow will be outside of this feud -- its been pretty unique circumstances, and there is no doubt whatsoever that MJF creates the most venom-fuelled feuds that best get over faces on the roster (Cody, Punk now this).

Edited May 29, 2022 by A_K

[The Great ML]

7 hours ago, The Natural said:

If MJF's not going to be at Double or Nothing, I'd like to think TK would let people know. Don't do the WWE move continuing to advertise someone for a show when you know it's definitely not happening. 

Not just the E...Jack Victory as an Original Midnight Express or Tom Zenk as masked Dos Hombre #2 raise their hands!

[Jiji]

For those saying it's a work, you believe more people are likely to buy the show than to avoid buying as a result of this? Have AEW done anything like this before? Closest thing I can think of is setting up a somewhat disappointing debut in Christian, who still rocks, at a ppv or not having the explosions properly cleared ahead of their main event. 

[Matt D]

1 minute ago, Jiji said:

For those saying it's a work, you believe more people are likely to buy the show than to avoid buying as a result of this?

If it’s a work, it’s one that would have been better timed next week for sort of return match.

The thing with wrestling is that no matter how legitimately things begin, they almost always end up as a work in the end. 

[EVA]

It’s not a work, people. Would be an incredibly idiotic work.

Even if they can get him to the arena to do the j-o-b tonight, I think MJF is done in this company.

[Matt D]

2 minutes ago, EVA said:

Even if they can get him to the arena to do the j-o-b tonight, I think MJF is done in this company.

Wait til he comes back in 2030 for a one-hand-tied-behind-his-back match against lead heel authority figure Lord Anthony Khan.

[Jiji]

Within the last month I commented that I think MJF is their most important guy long term and the one person they'd be hurt the most by losing. They should do everything within their power to make this work. I really enjoy watching MJF develop into one of the best on the planet and I don't watch much else current wrestling beyond AEW these days. Hoping this isn't the end of his run in the company but it sure feels like it. Sadness. 

Edited May 29, 2022 by Jiji

[Steventon]

Am I missing something here? The guy has been consistently pushed, is one of the most high profile guys they have, has been clearly positioned as one of the future long term main event acts, etc. and I assume is likely paid in line with that. Has creative control, gets to be treated as a hero in his hometown despite being the biggest heel on the roster. What really has he got to take issue with?

Maybe I've missed other tidbits and pieces of drama so someone help me out, because I'm struggling to see his point of view here.

Edited May 29, 2022 by killsteve

[Jiji]

Just now, killsteve said:

and I assume is likely paid in line with that

He is not and that seems to be the problem.

[(BP)]

MJF is very good, but the speculation about his bright future is based on his potential and not him personally. He has plenty of time to still be the next Ken Kennedy instead of the next Flair or Rock. 

[EVA]

1 minute ago, Jiji said:

Within the last month I commented that I think MJF is their most important guy long term and the one person they'd be hurt the most by losing. They should do everything within their power to make this work. I really enjoy watching MJF develop into one of the best on the planet and I don't watch much else beyond AEW these days. Hoping this isn't the end of his run in the company but it sure feels like it. Sadness. 

I agree in principle, but the time to make this work was months ago. MJF is now holding a PPV hostage, and you don’t negotiate with terrorists. Not a workable situation moving forward.

[JohnnyJ]

It sounds like the situation was created because he wants it both ways; an improved contract without a commitment to stay with the company. 
 

The leverage AEW has is he is hot now and still has time left on his deal. Why would they give up that leverage?

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

Punk beats Page tomorrow night.

MJF gets a title shot on Dynamite thru last minute negotiations with TK to stay.

MJF wins after FTR turn on Punk.

MJF beats Punk at his own game. Refusing to give him a rematch or he'll leave.

Wardlow continues to chase MJF.

Punk and Page have to put their differences aside to beat FTR. FTR try and get in Page's head again but he's not having it.

[EVA]

1 minute ago, JohnnyJ said:

It sounds like the situation was created because he wants it both ways; an improved contract without a commitment to stay with the company. 
 

The leverage AEW has is he is hot now and still has time left on his deal. Why would they give up that leverage?

To his credit, TK has shown that he doesn’t want his contracts to be punitive. He could’ve rolled over Cody’s deal but didn’t when it was clear that relationship had run its course. I don’t think he would hold MJF hostage for two years if he really doesn’t want to be there.

[Jiji]

1 minute ago, JohnnyJ said:

It sounds like the situation was created because he wants it both ways; an improved contract without a commitment to stay with the company. 

This is not what Fightful has consistently reported the last month plus. They've always maintained that MJF understands that if he's to get the raise he wants he would need to add years as well. "He knows that's how contracts work," or something along those lines. 

@EVAI understand that mindset and you don't want to set a bad precedent and all that. Trying to salvage a brutal situation, suspend him, see if he calms down, try to renegotiate. 

[The Great ML]

9 minutes ago, Jiji said:

He is not and that seems to be the problem.

He’s got one of those 1990s Scottie Pippen contracts. Locked in long term and underpaid in comparison to role and contribution.

[Tarheel Moneghetti]

The MJF situation has me considering buying the ppv.  
 

I mean, I only learned there was an AEW PPV tonight 15 minutes ago, so that’s quite an accomplishment.

Edited May 29, 2022 by Tarheel Moneghetti

[Jiji]

I wonder what Wardlow is thinking right now. 

[Krone]

MJFs up for his new contract when he is 28 though, hardly old in the business of professional wrestling. While I don't disagree he may be underpaid, Khan has explicitly stated he wants to keep Max AND is willing to pay him - but he has to take the extra time on the contract as that's how it works. The guy has been given the keys to the kingdom - promenantly featurd week in and week out 

Sounds like MJF wants to be a prick and get paid AND dip in 2024 too by all accounts. I mean how else can you read that situation.

Let's not forget this has been a 3 year build with a guy I'd imagine he has some relationship with. Maybe MJF worked his way into a shoot?

[Firebreaker Chip]

MJF will probably have other grievances than the contract situation, it just depends on whether he ever publicly elaborates on them. There have already been conflicting reports on whether or not he expected to be able to add money without adding years, nobody seems to have that strong a grasp of the finer details of the main beef

[(BP)]

Wardlow should make quick work of whoever subs in, so they’ll get more time for the other matches. Or use that time for O’Khan in Vegas vignettes, I think we’re all pretty invested in how his lost weekend is going. 

[Octopus]

Both sides look bad and Wardlow looks sympathetic.

Tony created a situation where he was heavily pushing someone allegedly very unhappy and as a business man couldn’t smooth out the problem. Now he’s up against the wall in a hardline contract powerplay. Maybe MJF had unreasonable expectations for an extension, but as a booker I feel he still put himself in this vulnerable situation.

If MJF is unhappy and willing to burn a bridge, I can sympathize. I hope he finds happiness elsewhere or even with whatever repercussions come from this. In regards to no showing the fan fest, that is very crummy. Obviously, this is the perfect time to make a situation for more money by holding Wardlow’s biggest moment hostage. I do find it slimy business. But hopefully this isn’t a mental health thing and he’s ok. I could see this being a Pillman style going to business for yourself by being a wildcard against the company more than a potential Kaufman style nuanced work.

If everything goes as planned and they smooth things over, a weird precedent is set for how far talent can go in negotiations. If it doesn’t get smoothed over, MJF is either let go or on the shelf for years. Or even smoothed over in time but awkward. But ultimately, I do not feel this is a morally right vs wrong situation. Both sides look ugly or silly. 

Wardlow comes out great and if the match doesn’t happen and they don’t fumble it with a dumb or predictable angle, this fan base will really gravitate more towards the WarDog. But this will depend on how well Tony Khan can panic book at the end of the game.

[A_K]

It's a work.