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AEW - APR 2022


The Natural

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Yeah, that was very disingenuous quoting. The poster literally cut out a part where another said he personally does not like the guys work, totally omitting the part where he noted others may, then tried to paint a picture of irrationality. Not cool.

 

Anyway, Cody Rhodes. He won’t have the entourage here. He’ll do exactly what creative tell him to do, because that’s how it  is over there. He’ll probably - nigh on certainly - be better for it. The reality is he was basically driven out of town in AEW. The fans were heckling him at every turn. There’s enough subtext out there that he was not on great working-terms with numerous significant colleagues. They didn’t take up their own legally binding option. Happens. I don’t think his babyface act will work any better over there if they do trade his image in that way, he’s just so unbelievably insincere and arrogant on the microphone it comes across as very flat even when he SHOUTS. Maybe the kids will like it, but he’s running around with the neck dat and blonde hair, so hardly peak kid friendly Cena. Not really sure who his demographic is. Guess all will be revealed.

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1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Another good idea. Instead of just assuming that kids will find AEW on You Tube I think it could be worth it to film one separate match a week aimed at kids and do a specific wrap around and package it all together ala the NXT Kids pilot WWE shot. Keep doing what they do otherwise. But adding a separate 30 minute You Tube show dedicated and aimed at kids with like a fun Danausen match or OC match or Statlander leaning heavy on the alien stuff. Do that and kid friendly recaps with bright colorful Saturday Morning graphics. Maybe even Danhausen does commentary for the show? Danhausen and Tony laughing and nerding out, seems kid friendly to me.

Just free balling here. But definitely could get more kids on board with AEW that way.

Kids don’t like “kid” things. They like cool things. 

My 4-year-old is super into AEW. His birthday is this week and he wants AEW figures and a ring. They don’t need to do anything to draw kids except putting on good wrestling. 

I get that making a “kid-friendly” show might appeal to parents letting their kids watch AEW. I’m probably a bad parent for letting my boy watch bloody matches and stuff, but whatever. I know my kids and I know what they can handle. I just know that when I was a kid, nothing turned me off to something faster than having it be explicitly a kids show. 

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I tried watching Mania tonight with the three-year-old, but he didn’t want to because his two favorites weren’t wrestling.  His favorites: “The Dragon with the Beard” and “The Hawnky Tawnk Man.”  Great taste already. 

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1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Another good idea. Instead of just assuming that kids will find AEW on You Tube I think it could be worth it to film one separate match a week aimed at kids and do a specific wrap around and package it all together ala the NXT Kids pilot WWE shot. Keep doing what they do otherwise. But adding a separate 30 minute You Tube show dedicated and aimed at kids with like a fun Danausen match or OC match or Statlander leaning heavy on the alien stuff. Do that and kid friendly recaps with bright colorful Saturday Morning graphics. Maybe even Danhausen does commentary for the show? Danhausen and Tony laughing and nerding out, seems kid friendly to me.

Just free balling here. But definitely could get more kids on board with AEW that way.

If you're going to try to draw in kids, a 1.5-2 hour YouTube vids ain't it unless you got something to grab them in the first few minutes. That probably won't even get caught in the algorithm to get suggested to kids.

I know @Log mentioned his kid is into AEW and I assume that's partly because his dad liked it so he wanted to check it out and then he liked it. If it's the reverse and he got you into it, my apologies.

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I do like the idea of making a YouTube show in the style of the old syndicated package show with highlights from Dynamite and Rampage, and maybe one exclusive match.

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1 minute ago, Ramo2653 said:

If you're going to try to draw in kids, a 1.5-2 hour YouTube vids ain't it unless you got something to grab them in the first few minutes. That probably won't even get caught in the algorithm to get suggested to kids.

I know @Log mentioned his kid is into AEW and I assume that's partly because his dad liked it so he wanted to check it out and then he liked it. If it's the reverse and he got you into it, my apologies.

Yeah, he’d see me watching and gradually started staying longer and longer. 
 

You make a great point, though. Nothing is better for getting kids into something than having someone they look up to, whether it’s dad or mom or an older sibling or cousin or uncle or something, thinking something is cool. 

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24 minutes ago, Log said:

Kids don’t like “kid” things. They like cool things. 

My 4-year-old is super into AEW. His birthday is this week and he wants AEW figures and a ring. They don’t need to do anything to draw kids except putting on good wrestling. 

I get that making a “kid-friendly” show might appeal to parents letting their kids watch AEW. I’m probably a bad parent for letting my boy watch bloody matches and stuff, but whatever. I know my kids and I know what they can handle. I just know that when I was a kid, nothing turned me off to something faster than having it be explicitly a kids show. 

Hey, my parents let me watch JCP, UWF, Billy Jack Haynes' five alarm blade job at WM 3 and Headbanger's Ball and I turned out fucking awesome. You ain't a bad parent. 

I HAAAAAATED being pandered to as a kid, too. I refused to watch Pinwheel because I saw that commercial and heard that theme song and it just screamed "HAY LITTLE KID, THIS SHOW IS FOR LITTLE KIDS AND YOU'LL LIKE IT BECAUSE YOU'RE A LITTLE KID, SEE YA AT 3, LITTLE KID!!!" Screw that. World Class or MTV was on. 



 

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59 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Here's the other thing I wrote in that response that was blatantly ignored:

 

People are allowed to have different competing thoughts at once. 

To be fay-uh: 

literally wrote: "While acknowledging that Cody is a draw" and you even  bolded that part in  your reply. Not sure how that counts as blatantly ignoring...

But, much more importantly, I totally agree that it's OK to have simultaneous competing ideas. It's easy to forget that.

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2 hours ago, Gordlow said:

I tried, pre-emptively, to get an "is AEW better off without Cody?" discussion going in that thread two weeks ago, even before the Wrestlers Moving On thread discussion turned sour. Maybe March 20th was too soon? 

Interstingly, @TheVileOne was the first person to reply in that thread. 

While acknowledging that Cody is a draw, his reply started with this:

" I personally couldn't stand Cody and his batshit, rambling nonsense promos. Ever since his weird America promo in May 2021, Cody has just he started overstaying his welcome. It got to a point where he was totally oblivious that he had gone from being Captain America to Captain Cringe... "

So it's interesting that he now thinks it was a huge mistake to let him go!

Of course, people are allowed to change their minds, or to be inconsistent.

Anyway, I'd encourage any further thoughtful discussion be continued over there.

I'm pretty sure that we've also discussed "how can AEW grow" at length in both of the Navel Gazing threads.

I am very very firmly in the "keep doing what you are doing and grow organically through positive word of mouth" camp, .and also of the opinion that AEW is better off being number two with rabid hardcore fans who support them trying new and crazy things, than LCD-ing their shows to try and get closer to number one (I made specific arguments saying they are better off being Rick and Morty than being The Simpsons, and also compared AEW to Letterkenny).

I continue to believe that they are way better off being Five Guys than being McDonalds and to believe that allowing creative freedom and a happy supportive atmosphere outweigh being able to pay everyone absolute top dollar.

I also don't  think that same-day US-only television ratings are anywhere near as meaningful as they once were. It ain't the Monday Night Wars anymore, as fun as that ratings discussion once must have been for some of us here.

Outside the box revenue streams are almost certainly way more important to the bottom line than cranking up same day US TV ratings, as long as the network remains happy.

Anyway, I'd also welcome more discussion on that topic in the Navel Gazing thread. The idea being that we keep the discussion in this topic germane to April 2022.

 

59 minutes ago, TheVileOne said:

Here's the other thing I wrote in that response that was blatantly ignored:

I know what I said. I remember what I said. I didn't like Cody's storylines or promos by the end of AEW. All that aside, Tony Khan letting him go under the circumstances he did, with that final promo he did on Dynamite was dumb. It was idiotic. I stand by what I said. I didn't change my mind. I take nothing back.

People are allowed to have different competing thoughts at once. I can see that Cody was a big star and draw for AEW, but I wasn't enjoying the direction of his character in AEW either.

This is all great but not at all about Bears.

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2 hours ago, Gordlow said:

It's surprising and interesting to read that Adam Cole and Matt Hardy (for example) are on a lot of "not my guys" lists. 

I don't hate the HHH's NXT and Attitude Era stuff, it's just not one of my favourite parts of the buffet. But I had assumed that those were the specific things that were bringing lots of other people in. 

It seems very cool to me that a lot of people seem to prefer AEW to do AEW stuff first and foremost. I still would not go so far as to suggest that the parts of the buffet I am (we are?) less into should be removed from the buffet... 

 

only speaking for myself here, but as someone who had both Adam Cole and Matt Hardy on my "Not my guys" list, here's my specific thoughts on those two. feel free to extrapolate further if you desire:

Matt Hardy - i think Matt Hardy sees it as being able to reinvent himself ala Jericho. The problem is, he doesn't have the range. "Big Money Matt" was OK at best, but the HFO stuff was TERRIBLE. "Broken" Matt wore out his welcome pretty quick, although that could have been due to not having crowds at the time. He's lost SO much mobility and speed in-ring that his matches generally aren't great. IMO it's just time for Matt to hang 'em up.

Adam Cole - pre-AEW, i had never seen Adam Cole. i knew him by reputation only but i didn't have any preconceived notions. Upon his introduction, he was immediately presented as a top guy. I felt that was unearned, but due to his prior championships and friendship with the Bucks/allegiance with the Bullet Club was willing to go with it. But i still just don't buy him as a credible threat to Hangman and don't feel like he has shown what he should to be in the position he's in. I think if he was dropped down the card a bit, i wouldn't have such a reaction, but his current placement just turns me off. 

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I think Adam Cole is really good on the mic and I see that he's over. It's how he wrestles that I can't stand. If he would shave 5 -10 minutes off his matches and cut out the Shawn Michaels School of Community Theater bullshit, I'd be able to hang. There's just always a couple or more needless near falls in his matches after what the end should've been, so I dread watching his big matches. 

Then there was the McAfee match. He literally walked halfway across the ring in a crouched position to get in the right spot for the Panama Sunrise. That's setting aside the fact that he took a Panama Sunrise from Pat McAfee. Just awful. 

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I watched the second half of WM last night and that product is definitely not for me. The best match I saw (Edge-AJ) had a screwy ending and was comparable to the TV matches we're getting regularly. Multiple non wrestlers Superstars going over wrestlers Superstars, and a 9-minute main event with another cheat win.

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14 hours ago, Ramo2653 said:

If you're going to try to draw in kids, a 1.5-2 hour YouTube vids ain't it unless you got something to grab them in the first few minutes. That probably won't even get caught in the algorithm to get suggested to kids.

Correct. Which is why my suggestion you quoted was a 30 minute show for kids. I agree a 1 or 2 hour long form You Tube show like Elevation probably isn't gripping enough to hang onto attention spans. But a specific 30 minute show that opens with like Danhausen & Colt Cabana riffing off the week's events in a goofy jovial way might. Almost like how the NFL puts a playoff game on Nickelodeon now. Neon slime and shit being edited in. Or funny sound effects.

The point that "when I was a kid, kid shit didn't work on me" is not lost on me. But you are probably the exception, not the rule. (I don't have kids so I could be way off). A lot of kids do like kid's shit. That's why kid's shit exists right? If that was always true there'd be no need for Nickelodeon.

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15 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Correct. Which is why my suggestion you quoted was a 30 minute show for kids. I agree a 1 or 2 hour long form You Tube show like Elevation probably isn't gripping enough to hang onto attention spans. But a specific 30 minute show that opens with like Danhausen & Colt Cabana riffing off the week's events in a goofy jovial way might. Almost like how the NFL puts a playoff game on Nickelodeon now. Neon slime and shit being edited in. Or funny sound effects.

The point that "when I was a kid, kid shit didn't work on me" is not lost on me. But you are probably the exception, not the rule. (I don't have kids so I could be way off). A lot of kids do like kid's shit. That's why kid's shit exists right? If that was always true there'd be no need for Nickelodeon.

Animated Elite Wrestling!

Each episode being stories exploring the lore of different characters. Maybe a series of continuing shorts. The adventures of Jungle boy and luchasaurus, Danhaussen’s Playhouse, Baby Bucks (stories of their upbringing), Britt Baker vs the Cavity Creeps, Reve Velvet Explains it All, Teenage Millennial Cowboy, Dark Order in Space, Thunder Cats Rosa, Omega Ball Z, etc. They’d be printing money.

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2 hours ago, (BP) said:

CM Joes cartoon anti drug PSAs please. 

Punk, Danhausen, and Hook teach kids to say no to peer pressure, then they help get Willow the Wisp out of a tree he’s stuck in. 

Speaking of Willow, hire Willow Nightengale, she has strong "extremely positive and outgoing kid's show host" energy.

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21 hours ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I agree wholeheartedly here, and it really highlights the importance of AEW's positioning as an alternative. To tie this back into the conversation about growth, even if they never catch up with WWE ratings-wise, what you wrote is at least anecdotal proof that there is and was an under-served market for non-WWE wrestling in the U.S. Considering the idea I've seen floated that the All In buys and U.S. NJPW World subscriber numbers were sort of used as proof of concept for AEW, the idea that AEW should stick and stick hard to doing AEW things is IMO near 100% valid

Edit: That said, it's also worth mentioning: if TK plays ROH right, if you can't be number one, there's surely a lot of money in effectively being both #2 and 3

I remember thinking that the WWE relaunch of ECW that there was a sizeable audience for a non-WWE alternative. And I said to friend of mine in the before times that NJPW was the number two promotion in the US based on the AXS numbers and the long beach shows. TNA on Spike seems like a missed opportunity  both for being LOLTNA and trying to be WWE at Home instead of ROH with a budget. (also possibly being a but too early in the post boom era)

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On 4/3/2022 at 5:48 PM, Gordlow said:

I haven't done any kind of statistical breakdown or even counted the names but I feel that there's a pretty noticeable trend in the "not my guys" category. It's not 100 percent, but it seems like a huge majority of the guys listed are ones who didn't quite wipe off all the Performance Center from their boots before entering the AEW ring, or guys who still work an Attitude Era highspot/stunt style.

I'm surprised by that! 

I tend to approach AEW as a buffet. The Japanese and Japanese-influenced stuff, the comedy stuff, the BMMSM, the stiffness, the ladies and lads who found a foothold on the YouTube shows and worked their way up the ladder, Mark Henry and Big Show and Ex and Tony on commentary... There are so many things I really like. 

The ex-HHH's NXT guys, the Attitude-era stars and stunts, the Death Match stuff, thumbtacks, Taz and JR on commentary, the Cody-verse (while it lasted) and some other minor things were not what I specifically came for, but I figured lots of other people were enjoying them and they were probably drawing lots of other eyes to AEW. 

It's surprising and interesting to read that Adam Cole and Matt Hardy (for example) are on a lot of "not my guys" lists. 

I don't hate the HHH's NXT and Attitude Era stuff, it's just not one of my favourite parts of the buffet. But I had assumed that those were the specific things that were bringing lots of other people in. 

It seems very cool to me that a lot of people seem to prefer AEW to do AEW stuff first and foremost. I still would not go so far as to suggest that the parts of the buffet I am (we are?) less into should be removed from the buffet... 

But maybe if those sections were made a little smaller there'd be a bit more room to expand our favourite sections. ?

This is a really interesting way to experience lists which included multiple mentions of:

  • Britt Baker
  • Sammy Guavara
  • Luchasaurus and sometimes his team as a whole
  • Penta and sometimes his brother
  • The Bucks
  • Thunder Rosa
  • Jay Lethal
  • Various Dark Order members

and various other people who to my knowledge didn't spend a lot of time in NXT. And that says nothing of the performers who've spent significant time in Hunter's NXT or even the WWE main roster who made people's favourites list. I don't see any grand dynamic where people with the stink of NXT or the Attitude Era on them are less appreciated by some AEW fans who want AEW to do "AEW stuff" first and foremost. I see a lot of fans with varying tastes who like some people less than others. I don't really see the distinction you do, because it's all "AEW stuff." Adam Cole especially, being so closely associated with the core group and the spirit that kicked this whole party off, is very much "AEW stuff." For better or worse. Not sure why there exists such a strong desire among some people to classify things that aren't broadly appreciated among a subset of fans as being of elsewhere. It's fine if people can admit that not all "AEW stuff" smells like roses. 

If anything, the general sentiment of "Thank you for being here, we're so happy to see you!" any time someone makes the jump dispels the myth that fans in any broad sense see them differently. If they're in AEW, they're part of the soup and they're AEW stuff now. 

And then there's so much cross-over in some of the various categories you've outlined as to almost render some of the distinctions meaningless. Because it's all AEW stuff. 

I guess this is my long-winded way of saying I think you might be reading a few things into some garden-variety lack of interest in Matt Hardy and Adams Cole coming from some people. ? 

Edited by John from Cincinnati
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I wouldn't put Matt in my Top 5 but I look forward to his TV matches (I've always though Matt was the better worker where as Jeff was better at the car crash/ jumping off shit matches). He seems to work within his limits and knows what they are. Plus I appreciate how he always tries to reinvent himself to stay fresh (wish they had done a bigger payoff of him being broke after loosing to Hangman) Cole I wish would take a long Youtube Vacation. So I guess Im on both sides of that argument 

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1 hour ago, zendragon said:

I wouldn't put Matt in my Top 5 but I look forward to his TV matches (I've always though Matt was the better worker where as Jeff was better at the car crash/ jumping off shit matches). He seems to work within his limits and knows what they are. Plus I appreciate how he always tries to reinvent himself to stay fresh (wish they had done a bigger payoff of him being broke after loosing to Hangman) Cole I wish would take a long Youtube Vacation. So I guess Im on both sides of that argument 

What I didn't understand from The Hangman feud was that Matt lost all his money... how did he become "Big Money" Matt when he had just lost his salary to Page?

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