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APRIL 2022 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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Best Inside Cradles in the business, easily. 1995 was a really bad year in wrestling generally, but Bret Hart was sooooo good. And stupid gimmick aside, I actually liked Henry Godwin, I have to admit. 

 

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5 hours ago, southofheavy said:

Oh GOD, that would be so awesome. 

There's a ton of Thin Lizzy songs that would work, such as...

Bad Reputation
Killer Without a Cause
Chinatown
Suicide
Jailbreak
Emerald
Cold Sweat
Toughest Street In Town

Honestly, I can't figure out why they aren't Mox's favorite band already. 

There's an alternative universe where Philo didn't fall out with Gary Moore, Thin Lizzy continue to write and record bangers and Bono never gets the opportunity to push himself as the face of Irish music. 

Whenever Mastodon play Dublin, their cover of Emerald gets a huge reception.

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1 hour ago, ReiseReise said:

Best Inside Cradles in the business, easily. 1995 was a really bad year in wrestling generally, but Bret Hart was sooooo good. And stupid gimmick aside, I actually liked Henry Godwin, I have to admit. 

 

If you watch the SAPW now on YT, you can see "Tex Salenger" before he became Tex Slazenger before he became a Godwin. 

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I feel like I'm missing something notable, but I feel like the Rumble 95 match with Diesel is the best example of a little guy being able to realistically hang with a big guy without any requirement of suspension of disbelief.  That to a non-viewer who would instinctively raise eyebrows at the lack of weight divisions being used here, Bret chopping down this lanky motherfucker, and putting his better moral judgement at the door to beat his ass and bend the rules where necessary, looked 100% realistic and believable.

It was also the worst possible match/story possible for Nash's first big match as champion. As much as Nash gets on his case in shoots about Bret only being about Bret - this is a far better example than the '96 cage match, which Bret was right in pointing out, made him look weak with two straight title matches getting comprehensively beaten by two bigger guys and having his title saved by outside interference ahead of losing the title clean to Shawn at Mania. 

In fairness, the '94 KOTR match was an interesting one too that I think was slightly off. Nash destroying Bret, and then only losing because Neidhart saved the title was probably the worst match for Bret's first defense as champion in 1994. I don't understand why they didn't run back Yoko/Bret for a more definitive conclusion, given Yoko had the excuse that he had to wrestle two guys in one night. 

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Posted (edited)
23 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I feel like I'm missing something notable, but I feel like the Rumble 95 match with Diesel is the best example of a little guy being able to realistically hang with a big guy without any requirement of suspension of disbelief.  That to a non-viewer who would instinctively raise eyebrows at the lack of weight divisions being used here, Bret chopping down this lanky motherfucker, and putting his better moral judgement at the door to beat his ass and bend the rules where necessary, looked 100% realistic and believable.

It was also the worst possible match/story possible for Nash's first big match as champion. As much as Nash gets on his case in shoots about Bret only being about Bret - this is a far better example than the '96 cage match, which Bret was right in pointing out, made him look weak with two straight title matches getting comprehensively beaten by two bigger guys and having his title saved by outside interference ahead of losing the title clean to Shawn at Mania. 

In fairness, the '94 KOTR match was an interesting one too that I think was slightly off. Nash destroying Bret, and then only losing because Neidhart saved the title was probably the worst match for Bret's first defense as champion in 1994. I don't understand why they didn't run back Yoko/Bret for a more definitive conclusion, given Yoko had the excuse that he had to wrestle two guys in one night. 

One of my favourite things about Bret/Diesel from Royal Rumble 1995 is how aggressive Bret Hart was. The bending of rules you brought up. That started when Bret returned the week before beating Jeff Jarrett on RAW (Bret's first match after Bret dropped the WWF Championship to Bob Backlund at the 1994 Survivor Series). There's times I prefer the Royal Rumble match to Survivor Series 1995 and vice versa. If I had to pick right now, Survivor Series. The two best matches of Kevin Nash's career by far.

Edited by The Natural
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I think the Survivor Series match loses a bit of credit because they practically run it back but better with Shawn at Good Friends, Stiffer Enemies.

Another completely different story told to the other two matches, and I think it makes both guys look a million bucks - it's a consistent narrative of Bret taking a shit kicking but never out of it, because he can outsmart someone/lull them into a false sense of security, it gives Nash's heel turn momentum because he lost only due to taking pity on Bret, the powerbomb through the table is fair/fair after Bret threw the rule book out the window first. 

If anything, after such a lacklustre title run, you feel its a shame that his title reign ends here after such an awesome showing. They had so many pieces on the table in 1995, and could have been so good, instead they wasted the summer on Sid and Mabel. 

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I wonder how we'd look back on things had Bret kept going post-2000, or Shawn didn't have the comeback. I think we forget how bad Bret's WCW run was, and don't forget how over-dramatic and one note Shawn's comeback was. Or even if he wasn't responsible for the NXT circlejerk theatre that came about in his name...

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I wonder how we'd look back on things had Bret kept going post-2000, or Shawn didn't have the comeback. I think we forget how bad Bret's WCW run was, and don't forget how over-dramatic and one note Shawn's comeback was. Or even if he wasn't responsible for the NXT circlejerk theatre that came about in his name...

Such a shame what's happened to Bret Hart that he wasn't able to properly comeback with the stroke and concussions. Good on CM Punk actually saying he's more grateful to have the opportunity to in AEW when he sees Bret who can't.

Edited by The Natural
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10 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

Bob Holly solid TV match guy especially during his Smackdown/Velocity run, couple of good tag teams with Billy Gunn and Charlie Hass. Never really wanted to see him get a big push but always enjoyed him going 6 - 8 minutes

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12 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

No one had any reason to care about Steve Blackman, with his soft core porn entrance music, his bland personality and his black warm up pants.

Then he starts fucking guys up left right and centre. Still the best moveset of any guy on the early PS games.

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12 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

Trent was an awesome shout.

Not really the same thing but it’s incredible how over Dean Malenko was in 1997 while doing this gimmick. It blows me away when I watch old Nitros…Dean is always like the fourth most over guy on the show. It’s awesome!

 

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i have always been a Shawn Michaels guy. i don't care about his childlike tantrums, his drug addictions, or his backstage politicking. if i could only watch one guy's matches for the rest of my life, i'm taking HBK in a heartbeat. Bret Hart is a better "technical wrestler", but give me excitement over execution. 

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14 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

Festus.

😉.

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That's an interesting pairing. I got lucky last November at WWE Live getting Smackdown and Cesaro vs. WALTER, a true dream match for years that. It was supposed to be Cesaro vs. WALTER on all the Smackdown house shows but we were the last to get it as it was turned into tag team matches with WALTER/Sheamus vs. Drew McIntyre/Cesaro and WALTER/Sheamus vs. Cesaro/Finn Balor the rest of the tour.

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If there are no new groupings of WWE releases after May the 5th, then WWE is really done releasing people that way.

Tony Khan will have to look elsewhere for new debuts instead of the ex WWE pile.

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3 hours ago, twiztor said:

i have always been a Shawn Michaels guy. i don't care about his childlike tantrums, his drug addictions, or his backstage politicking. if i could only watch one guy's matches for the rest of my life, i'm taking HBK in a heartbeat. Bret Hart is a better "technical wrestler", but give me excitement over execution. 

I actually was a fan of Shawn before I was a fan of Bret because of The Rockers, and I like the guy. I think Bret was plenty exciting, though. Every match felt like a legit competition and not faux fisties, at least to me. 

There is more than one way to be exciting in the ring.

Bret is my pick for best American/Canadian wrestler, personally. I know that's a hot take (not generally, but maybe to the DVDVR/PWO set) and Bret took house shows off and all that, but he'll always be the G.O.A.T. to me. It's him at #1, Danielson at #2, and then after that I wouldn't know. 

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
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7 hours ago, The Natural said:

One of my favourite things about Bret/Diesel from Royal Rumble 1995 is how aggressive Bret Hart was. The bending of rules you brought up. That started when Bret returned the week before beating Jeff Jarrett on RAW (Bret's first match after Bret dropped the WWF Championship to Bob Backlund at the 1994 Survivor Series). There's times I prefer the Royal Rumble match to Survivor Series 1995 and vice versa. If I had to pick right now, Survivor Series. The two best matches of Kevin Nash's career by far.

Yes unlike other Top babyfaces in WWF/WWE it's excusable for Bret to use Heelish tactics to win back him Belt against the Bigger ,Stronger Champ. 

 

Bret was dope in '94 and '95 because clearly at points he was put on the backburner but he never worked down based on who he was working, whether he was main eventing against Yoko or in a middle of the card against a new Yankeem or against Hakushi who everyone else besides The Kid wanted to sell for.

It felt like up till he returned in '96 he was constantly trying to prove to Vince McMahon that he was the top guy. Even when he had the belt the first few times it was like he was literally out to prove to Vince why he was the Ace.

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17 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

I think there are more recent and logical answers, but the first one that came to mind was Yoshi Yatsu from '90s NJPW. Looked like shit, but wrestled pretty exciting matches with pretty much anyone. Mind you, I  had no idea about the stuff he did in the early 80's All-Japan at that point.

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"Great Value" Tommy Dreamer is a concept that fascinates me since Tommy was already "Dollar Tree" Shoji Nakamaki and Nakamaki was already like getting Onita off Wish

James

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