APRIL 2022 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[The Natural]

Bret Hart by far. Always felt that way. Never once wavered.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I wonder how we'd look back on things had Bret kept going post-2000, or Shawn didn't have the comeback. I think we forget how bad Bret's WCW run was, and don't forget how over-dramatic and one note Shawn's comeback was. Or even if he wasn't responsible for the NXT circlejerk theatre that came about in his name...

[The Natural]

5 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I wonder how we'd look back on things had Bret kept going post-2000, or Shawn didn't have the comeback. I think we forget how bad Bret's WCW run was, and don't forget how over-dramatic and one note Shawn's comeback was. Or even if he wasn't responsible for the NXT circlejerk theatre that came about in his name...

Such a shame what's happened to Bret Hart that he wasn't able to properly comeback with the stroke and concussions. Good on CM Punk actually saying he's more grateful to have the opportunity to in AEW when he sees Bret who can't.

Edited April 24, 2022 by The Natural

[The Natural]

01:41. 96% to Bret Hart.

[zendragon]

10 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

Bob Holly solid TV match guy especially during his Smackdown/Velocity run, couple of good tag teams with Billy Gunn and Charlie Hass. Never really wanted to see him get a big push but always enjoyed him going 6 - 8 minutes

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

12 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

No one had any reason to care about Steve Blackman, with his soft core porn entrance music, his bland personality and his black warm up pants.

Then he starts fucking guys up left right and centre. Still the best moveset of any guy on the early PS games.

[For Great Justice]

12 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

Trent was an awesome shout.

Not really the same thing but it’s incredible how over Dean Malenko was in 1997 while doing this gimmick. It blows me away when I watch old Nitros…Dean is always like the fourth most over guy on the show. It’s awesome!

 

[twiztor]

i have always been a Shawn Michaels guy. i don't care about his childlike tantrums, his drug addictions, or his backstage politicking. if i could only watch one guy's matches for the rest of my life, i'm taking HBK in a heartbeat. Bret Hart is a better "technical wrestler", but give me excitement over execution. 

[The Natural]

14 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

Festus.

.

[The Natural]

That's an interesting pairing. I got lucky last November at WWE Live getting Smackdown and Cesaro vs. WALTER, a true dream match for years that. It was supposed to be Cesaro vs. WALTER on all the Smackdown house shows but we were the last to get it as it was turned into tag team matches with WALTER/Sheamus vs. Drew McIntyre/Cesaro and WALTER/Sheamus vs. Cesaro/Finn Balor the rest of the tour.

[Kang]

If there are no new groupings of WWE releases after May the 5th, then WWE is really done releasing people that way.

Tony Khan will have to look elsewhere for new debuts instead of the ex WWE pile.

[The Natural]

 

[SturmCRF]

Fuck off Tyson Fury. If anything could keep me away from a Wembley Wrestlemania it'd be that anti semitic, homophobic shit titan having anything to do with it.

[SirSmUgly]

3 hours ago, twiztor said:

i have always been a Shawn Michaels guy. i don't care about his childlike tantrums, his drug addictions, or his backstage politicking. if i could only watch one guy's matches for the rest of my life, i'm taking HBK in a heartbeat. Bret Hart is a better "technical wrestler", but give me excitement over execution. 

I actually was a fan of Shawn before I was a fan of Bret because of The Rockers, and I like the guy. I think Bret was plenty exciting, though. Every match felt like a legit competition and not faux fisties, at least to me. 

There is more than one way to be exciting in the ring.

Bret is my pick for best American/Canadian wrestler, personally. I know that's a hot take (not generally, but maybe to the DVDVR/PWO set) and Bret took house shows off and all that, but he'll always be the G.O.A.T. to me. It's him at #1, Danielson at #2, and then after that I wouldn't know. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by SirSmellingtonofCascadia

[Ziggy]

7 hours ago, The Natural said:

One of my favourite things about Bret/Diesel from Royal Rumble 1995 is how aggressive Bret Hart was. The bending of rules you brought up. That started when Bret returned the week before beating Jeff Jarrett on RAW (Bret's first match after Bret dropped the WWF Championship to Bob Backlund at the 1994 Survivor Series). There's times I prefer the Royal Rumble match to Survivor Series 1995 and vice versa. If I had to pick right now, Survivor Series. The two best matches of Kevin Nash's career by far.

Yes unlike other Top babyfaces in WWF/WWE it's excusable for Bret to use Heelish tactics to win back him Belt against the Bigger ,Stronger Champ. 

 

Bret was dope in '94 and '95 because clearly at points he was put on the backburner but he never worked down based on who he was working, whether he was main eventing against Yoko or in a middle of the card against a new Yankeem or against Hakushi who everyone else besides The Kid wanted to sell for.

It felt like up till he returned in '96 he was constantly trying to prove to Vince McMahon that he was the top guy. Even when he had the belt the first few times it was like he was literally out to prove to Vince why he was the Ace.

[Shartnado]

17 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

I think there are more recent and logical answers, but the first one that came to mind was Yoshi Yatsu from '90s NJPW. Looked like shit, but wrestled pretty exciting matches with pretty much anyone. Mind you, I  had no idea about the stuff he did in the early 80's All-Japan at that point.

[Technico Support]

I’d like to throw earlier Eddie Edwards on that list.  Short haired, bland white guy but dude could WORK. 

“Earlier” = before he got chubby, got shitty gear, and became Great Value Tommy Dreamer.  

[J.H.]

"Great Value" Tommy Dreamer is a concept that fascinates me since Tommy was already "Dollar Tree" Shoji Nakamaki and Nakamaki was already like getting Onita off Wish

James

[ReiseReise]

5 hours ago, twiztor said:

i have always been a Shawn Michaels guy. i don't care about his childlike tantrums, his drug addictions, or his backstage politicking. if i could only watch one guy's matches for the rest of my life, i'm taking HBK in a heartbeat. Bret Hart is a better "technical wrestler", but give me excitement over execution. 

As much as I love Bret as a wrestler, he had his fair share of character flaws. There are no-goes for every fan regarding those flaws, enjoy who you want to and can enjoy. 

1995 had such a weird vibe in the WWF. You had two guys who could arguably go as well as anyone before and since in the ring and whose gimmicks where somewhat extensions of their real life personalities. You also had loads of weird gimmicks like pig farmers, Garbage Men, Plumbers, Nascar Drivers etc. 

[A_K]

Hart had the pretty underwhelming distinction of being WWF face when it clearly played second fiddle promotion, then basically not moving the needle in any way shape or form when he moved to WCW, and being an underwhelming-part of an underwhelming-promotion that slid to second fiddle within a few months of him being there. The “Michaels/Hart” competition is always a bit odd, in the sense it’s akin to debating who of a host of second-fiddle NBA HOFers were superior to each other. Neither were ever really the man - not really for any prolonged period of time anyway.

Edited April 24, 2022 by A_K

[zendragon]

16 hours ago, ReiseReise said:

Best Inside Cradles in the business, easily. 1995 was a really bad year in wrestling generally, but Bret Hart was sooooo good. And stupid gimmick aside, I actually liked Henry Godwin, I have to admit. 

 

I do not for one second accept that a couple of shit-kicking redneck cousins is a bad gimmick. Also the Hog Pen match is a lot like the chamber of horrors match in that if you look past the silliness its a very entertaining brawl

[Ziggy]

11 hours ago, twiztor said:

i have always been a Shawn Michaels guy. i don't care about his childlike tantrums, his drug addictions, or his backstage politicking. if i could only watch one guy's matches for the rest of my life, i'm taking HBK in a heartbeat. Bret Hart is a better "technical wrestler", but give me excitement over execution. 

As a kid I felt that way about Shawn. I thought he was more exciting than Bret. Ironically I didn't really appreciate Bret until a few months before Montreal. And little did I know he was leaving and wasn't even smart to the screwjob finish till Vince explained it on TV. The older I got and the smarter I got to the business,  the more and more I realized how much better Bret was than Shawn Michaels. I still like Shawn and I think he is great in the WWE lexicon. Another thing about Shawn that hurt him for me is the Melodramatic stuff he brought to this modern WWE & NXT. It was cute in the Flair match an his Retirement match but everything else like the matches he refereed between Hunter and Taker and all those NXT TakeOver main events that he or Hunter agented was too much to the point I feeling him less and  less. Bret Hart worked for the match. Yeah he wanted to look good even in a loosing effort but Shawn seemed like he wanted to look good even at your expense. Look at the Hogan match, it was really good and even funny but it's just an example of him overexagerating to make a point. I'd like to hear Brets thoughts on that match today especially since he doesn't hate Shawn and he's not too crazy about Hulk.

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

From the Observer around that time:

The latest chapter in the saga of the most famous "Whatever happened to?" in pro wrestling took place over this past weekend.

Jim "Ultimate Warrior" Hellwig was scheduled to start in a new role of wrestling promoter on 10/7 in Las Vegas as the co-owner of the new NWC promotion. After T.C. Martin's original partner in NWC went bankrupt, Martin, who brought the 38-year-old Hellwig back this past summer for his first pro wrestling appearance in the United States in nearly two years, struck a deal with Hellwig to re-start the company under the name Ultimate Creations. Earlier in the week, Hellwig has asked for the company to change its name to Warrior Promotions, since he had legally changed his name to Warrior due to a series of merchandising legal problems with Titan Sports.

The NWC, which had been running shows at the Silver Nugget Hotel in Las Vegas in a 1,200-seat ballroom, had, upon the bankruptcy of the original partner, moved to the Aladdin Hotel in a 6,500-seat arena. The Aladdin was listed a the official promoter with the Nevada State Commission. Hellwig was supposed to arrive in town on the morning of 10/6 to do spots on the two largest radio stations in Las Vegas during morning drive time to promote the show. About 15 minutes before his first scheduled appearance, he called Martin and told him that his car broke down on the drive from his home in Scottsdale, AZ. Hellwig officially checked into the Aladdin at 6 p.m. that day, roughly 12 hours after his scheduled arrival and immediately put a block on his phone so nobody could get through to him. He finally surfaced the next morning at about 11 a.m. just before some scheduled public appearances. At a meeting, Hellwig asked for the sponsorship checks for the show, all made out to Warrior Promotions, which totalled $6,000. He said he'd cash the checks and settle with the hotel and the athletic commission to show each there were sufficient funds for the return show, and at the show write out his own checks to take care of the boys.

Hellwig then no-showed another morning radio appearance and his public appearance at a place called Ultrazone, a laser tag place which had given $2,000 of the sponsorship money and where a crowd of 300 awaited his live appearance. The plan was for Jim Neidhart to appear at the place and do a confrontation to build heat for their main event that night. By this point, Hellwig had checked out of the Aladdin after what appears to have been a dispute with the hotel claiming the hotel didn't live up to their end of the deal when it came to promotions and he reportedly blew up because when he got to the hotel, his name wasn't on the marquee in front of the hotel and instead they listed the Oingo Boingo band on the big marquee.

At the start of the show, which drew a $14,000 house (about 900 paid and 1,400 total), Martin got on the house mic and either he, or Neidhart made the announcement to bury Warrior that Neidhart had seen Warrior earlier in the day at the buffet and that Neidhart intimidated him so bad he had ran out of town. They added a Battle Royal at the end of the show (won by Neidhart) to make up for Warrior not being there, but most of the guys joked their way through that match. Virgil worked with Neidhart in the top singles match going to a double count out, which ended up being another problem since Virgil had a major problem before the match because he wasn't going to go over.

Edited April 25, 2022 by GuerrillaMonsoon

[(BP)]

“The Oingo Boingo band” is a minor masterpiece of a Meltzerism. 

[Jenalysis]

On 4/20/2022 at 6:48 PM, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I'm sure that the tech has only gotten better since the Tupac hologram came out a few years back. 

I'm just saying, Booker T and Cena already used elements of one iconic Hasbro IP to varying levels of positive effect. Seems like someone should go back to that well. 

 

You really want to give someone a Twilight Sparkle gimmick?