APRIL 2022 WRESTLING DISCUSSION

[PetrolCB]

9 hours ago, The Natural said:

More wrestlers should use the Bret's Rope elbow.

FTFY

[SirSmUgly]

Hitman/Roman is legit the cross-generational dream match I didn't know I wanted to see until now.

[Ziggy]

1 hour ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Hitman/Roman is legit the cross-generational dream match I didn't know I wanted to see until now.

It would have been Bret vs Diesel 10x better and their matches were dope.

[SirSmUgly]

Hitman/Diesel RR 1995 is one of those great matches that doesn't get enough love because of the nothing finish. Absolute classic of a match.

Like a top fifteen or twenty WWE match ever at worst.

[nate]

On 4/22/2022 at 12:35 PM, Zimbra said:

What do you think the ratio is of workers who prefer Tom Waits' Big in Japan to Alphaville's Big in Japan?

+1

[Cobra Commander]

8 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Hitman/Roman is legit the cross-generational dream match I didn't know I wanted to see until now.

could have done the hidden chestplate spot again, only with a better payoff than what they did with Bret/Goldberg after that spot

[WholeFnMachine]

I think the Blackpool Combat Club should come out together to The Boys Are Back In Town by Thin Lizzy.

[TheVileOne]

On 4/18/2022 at 1:07 PM, Hagan said:

Yeah - but the implication of that statement is unless you have the nebulous "I can see him or her headlining a Wrestlemania" thing then you don't have "it." It doesn't seem like he's talking about fundamentals but more like charisma and aptitude.  Six months a short window to tell whether or not someone is going to be a star. Shit - how many guys in the NJPW dojo train for years? 

I mean, I know it's Hunter just speaking the corporate line so I shouldn't be overly parsing it but we know how this ends up. They pass on a ton of guys and girls who end up developing down the line and they end up trying to bring them back one day. 

Look how many years it took for Mark Henry to get over as a legit main eventer and monster. And that's after a lot of stops and starts and failed midcard comedy acts. 

[Ziggy]

6 hours ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Hitman/Diesel RR 1995 is one of those great matches that doesn't get enough love because of the nothing finish. Absolute classic of a match.

Like a top fifteen or twenty WWE match ever at worst.

I didn't see the KotR 94 match was good too

[The Great ML]

I don’t remember who said it...while so many of today’s generation wanted to be like Shawn, Bret’s body of work is timeless.

[HumanChessgame]

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

[southofheavy]

1 hour ago, WholeFnMachine said:

I think the Blackpool Combat Club should come out together to The Boys Are Back In Town by Thin Lizzy.

Oh GOD, that would be so awesome. 

There's a ton of Thin Lizzy songs that would work, such as...

Bad Reputation
Killer Without a Cause
Chinatown
Suicide
Jailbreak
Emerald
Cold Sweat
Toughest Street In Town

Honestly, I can't figure out why they aren't Mox's favorite band already. 

[BrianS81177]

40 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

Greg Gagne. Looked like he should be cashiering at a Home Depot, awful promo but very solid worker

[porksweats]

44 minutes ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

Trent fits that for me

[SirSmUgly]

Gagne's a good shout.

For me, it might be Tito Santana. He's got a bland nice-guy personality and is a mediocre promo, but he's always fun as hell in the ring. 

@Ziggy I'd have RR '95 first, SurSer '95 second, and KotR '94 third, but they do range from all-time great to very good, yes. 

Bret got a lot out of big guys who were still learning to work. He had at least one legitimately good match with Glen "Isaac Yankem" Jacobs in that period, for example. 

Edited April 24, 2022 by SirSmellingtonofCascadia

[Elsalvajeloco]

39 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Gagne's a good shout.

For me, it might be Tito Santana. He's got a bland nice-guy personality and is a mediocre promo, but he's always fun as hell in the ring. 

@Ziggy I'd have RR '95 first, SurSer '95 second, and KotR '94 third, but they do range from all-time great to very good, yes. 

Bret got a lot out of big guys who were still learning to work. He had at least one legitimately good match with Glen "Isaac Yankem" Jacobs in that period, for example. 

Bret had a pretty awesome 94, but I love that in 1995 after the Diesel match at Rumble 95, he was out there wrestling Hakushi, Jean Pierre Lafitte, Jerry Lawler, and Isaac Yankem 2x on PPV. Granted all four are solid to great workers in their own right, it goes to show that Bret Hart was THE WWF workhorse. 

[BrianS81177]

48 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Gagne's a good shout.

For me, it might be Tito Santana. He's got a bland nice-guy personality and is a mediocre promo, but he's always fun as hell in the ring. 

I'll agree with Tito too. He never struck me as being "exciting" yet at the same time I'm hard pressed to think of any times he outright stunk (that wasn't the fault of his opponent anyway)

[The Great ML]

2 hours ago, HumanChessgame said:

Does anyone have an opposite of a "and then the bell rang" guy? As in someone who you didn't think had that good of a look, no interesting gimmick or personality, and were more or less indifferent to but always enjoyed their matches?

Buddy Roberts as a single.

[(BP)]

Bret was on one in 1995. 

 

[ReiseReise]

Best Inside Cradles in the business, easily. 1995 was a really bad year in wrestling generally, but Bret Hart was sooooo good. And stupid gimmick aside, I actually liked Henry Godwin, I have to admit. 

 

[Fighting a man with a perm]

5 hours ago, southofheavy said:

Oh GOD, that would be so awesome. 

There's a ton of Thin Lizzy songs that would work, such as...

Bad Reputation
Killer Without a Cause
Chinatown
Suicide
Jailbreak
Emerald
Cold Sweat
Toughest Street In Town

Honestly, I can't figure out why they aren't Mox's favorite band already. 

There's an alternative universe where Philo didn't fall out with Gary Moore, Thin Lizzy continue to write and record bangers and Bono never gets the opportunity to push himself as the face of Irish music. 

Whenever Mastodon play Dublin, their cover of Emerald gets a huge reception.

[odessasteps]

1 hour ago, ReiseReise said:

Best Inside Cradles in the business, easily. 1995 was a really bad year in wrestling generally, but Bret Hart was sooooo good. And stupid gimmick aside, I actually liked Henry Godwin, I have to admit. 

 

If you watch the SAPW now on YT, you can see "Tex Salenger" before he became Tex Slazenger before he became a Godwin. 

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I feel like I'm missing something notable, but I feel like the Rumble 95 match with Diesel is the best example of a little guy being able to realistically hang with a big guy without any requirement of suspension of disbelief.  That to a non-viewer who would instinctively raise eyebrows at the lack of weight divisions being used here, Bret chopping down this lanky motherfucker, and putting his better moral judgement at the door to beat his ass and bend the rules where necessary, looked 100% realistic and believable.

It was also the worst possible match/story possible for Nash's first big match as champion. As much as Nash gets on his case in shoots about Bret only being about Bret - this is a far better example than the '96 cage match, which Bret was right in pointing out, made him look weak with two straight title matches getting comprehensively beaten by two bigger guys and having his title saved by outside interference ahead of losing the title clean to Shawn at Mania. 

In fairness, the '94 KOTR match was an interesting one too that I think was slightly off. Nash destroying Bret, and then only losing because Neidhart saved the title was probably the worst match for Bret's first defense as champion in 1994. I don't understand why they didn't run back Yoko/Bret for a more definitive conclusion, given Yoko had the excuse that he had to wrestle two guys in one night. 

[The Natural]

23 minutes ago, GuerrillaMonsoon said:

I feel like I'm missing something notable, but I feel like the Rumble 95 match with Diesel is the best example of a little guy being able to realistically hang with a big guy without any requirement of suspension of disbelief.  That to a non-viewer who would instinctively raise eyebrows at the lack of weight divisions being used here, Bret chopping down this lanky motherfucker, and putting his better moral judgement at the door to beat his ass and bend the rules where necessary, looked 100% realistic and believable.

It was also the worst possible match/story possible for Nash's first big match as champion. As much as Nash gets on his case in shoots about Bret only being about Bret - this is a far better example than the '96 cage match, which Bret was right in pointing out, made him look weak with two straight title matches getting comprehensively beaten by two bigger guys and having his title saved by outside interference ahead of losing the title clean to Shawn at Mania. 

In fairness, the '94 KOTR match was an interesting one too that I think was slightly off. Nash destroying Bret, and then only losing because Neidhart saved the title was probably the worst match for Bret's first defense as champion in 1994. I don't understand why they didn't run back Yoko/Bret for a more definitive conclusion, given Yoko had the excuse that he had to wrestle two guys in one night. 

One of my favourite things about Bret/Diesel from Royal Rumble 1995 is how aggressive Bret Hart was. The bending of rules you brought up. That started when Bret returned the week before beating Jeff Jarrett on RAW (Bret's first match after Bret dropped the WWF Championship to Bob Backlund at the 1994 Survivor Series). There's times I prefer the Royal Rumble match to Survivor Series 1995 and vice versa. If I had to pick right now, Survivor Series. The two best matches of Kevin Nash's career by far.

Edited April 24, 2022 by The Natural

[GuerrillaMonsoon]

I think the Survivor Series match loses a bit of credit because they practically run it back but better with Shawn at Good Friends, Stiffer Enemies.

Another completely different story told to the other two matches, and I think it makes both guys look a million bucks - it's a consistent narrative of Bret taking a shit kicking but never out of it, because he can outsmart someone/lull them into a false sense of security, it gives Nash's heel turn momentum because he lost only due to taking pity on Bret, the powerbomb through the table is fair/fair after Bret threw the rule book out the window first. 

If anything, after such a lacklustre title run, you feel its a shame that his title reign ends here after such an awesome showing. They had so many pieces on the table in 1995, and could have been so good, instead they wasted the summer on Sid and Mabel.