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APRIL 2022 WRESTLING DISCUSSION


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1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said:

Wonder how much of having 3 sites for Wrestlemania 2 involved having more sites than the 2 site Starrcades

That and Vince wanting to run coast to coast and/or NY/Chicago/LA for media hits. 

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If you did six man matches that lead a match between Roman and the pushed member of New Day, especially if Big E comes back from his broken neck, would be a good story. 

Edited by odessasteps
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They can build whomever they want at this point if we're just focused on the remaining hardcore audience. When they want to, they can commit. 

Honestly, the vast majority of my wrestling watching in the past three or so years has been between the years of 1970 and 1998, so I don't know if there's anyone on a roster anywhere in the U.S. that can be a legitimate crossover star, but I don't think that the fragmentation of entertainment media means that it's not possible to do that anymore in wrestling. Things break through all the time and become broadly hot amongst a wide demographic. Everyone on the planet just went to see a Spider-Man movie a few months ago. Yeah, Spidey has a rich history, so it's not one-to-one, but I think the right talent could absolutely get hot and become a megastar in 2022 that drives ratings and subs. 

The issue is that it won't happen in either WWE or AEW because the conditions aren't right in either company for it (though for very different reasons). But theoretically, yeah, things still catch on with multiple demos. I could see the right characters for the right company coming along and sparking a one or two year hot streak for pro wrestling again. 

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
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1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said:

The next year with Mayweather. 

Great point. Totally forgot about that. I concede my point though I do think they've definitely double-down on celebrities the last few years. 

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17 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

I don't know if there's anyone on a roster anywhere in the U.S. that can be a legitimate crossover star, but I don't think that the fragmentation of entertainment media means that it's not possible to do that anymore in wrestling. Things break through all the time and become broadly hot amongst a wide demographic. Everyone on the planet just went to see a Spider-Man movie a few months ago. 

Sure, but look at how many old stars they needed to draw those houses. And consider how inorganically they propped up Holland's push by attaching him to Iron Man and putting Happy Hogan in his movies. I'm not sure how much of a draw Tom Holland's Spiderman really is. 

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2 hours ago, A_K said:

As with any business, the idea that the “brand” trumps “content” is a nice idea only in the very short term.

Everybody is talking about who is a draw or who isn't a draw, but this is the only comment in the entire conversation that addresses the actual issue.  I don't think Roman, Brock, or anyone else is a draw in the current WWE, because they want to present their brand a certain way, not put on the best wrestling show.  It doesn't matter if Roman or Brock are draws, because they chose to put those guys on top and whether or not the draw money is kind of irrelevant.  They want those guys to be the face of their brand, and they'd rather sell their brand to Fox, to Saudi Arabia, and to Peacock than to sell tickets to wrestling fans.  It doesn't matter if we want to watch it as much as it matters that these other companies want to buy in.  For what it's worth, I think both of those guys could potentially be huge draws if they wanted to put on a great wrestling product, but I don't think that's the case.  They could have let those guys go out and put on a great wrestling match at Wrestlemania, both guys have proven to be capable of it, but they would rather put on the same ol' Brock Lesnar suplex and finisher spamming nonsense that they've been putting on for the last few years.  It's no longer about us, it's about them, and that is why wrestling fans aren't buying tickets.

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45 minutes ago, Log said:

Big E is WWE's biggest miss, IMO.  That guy has "It" and a LOT of it.  

The match between Big E and Roman was completely wasted at last year Survivor Series. It was good, but the reactions received made it clear that was Summerslam big at worst and probably should have been saved for a Wrestlemania.

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9 minutes ago, supremebve said:

They want those guys to be the face of their brand, and they'd rather sell their brand to Fox, to Saudi Arabia, and to Peacock than to sell tickets to wrestling fans.

I keep thinking this is where the bubble starts, but maybe I'm wrong.  Currently, these streaming companies and networks are buying based solely on content.  "WWE can give us X hours so let's give them a bunch of money."  That always weirds me out because surely there's a point where these companies see that not enough people are watching the content they paid for to justify the price, right?   Then again, maybe I just don't get this new content-based model.  Like I'm looking at Netflix and I see a show like "To The Lake," which is a Russian-produced drama/horror/action thing.  I watched it but I don't know anyone else who did.  I don't know how much Netflix paid for it but surely not enough people are watching it to justify the expense.  What's the deal?

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Just now, Technico Support said:

I keep thinking this is where the bubble starts, but maybe I'm wrong.  Currently, these streaming companies and networks are buying based solely on content.  "WWE can give us X hours so let's give them a bunch of money."  That always weirds me out because surely there's a point where these companies see that not enough people are watching the content they paid for to justify the price, right?   Then again, maybe I just don't get this new content-based model.  Like I'm looking at Netflix and I see a show like "To The Lake," which is a Russian-produced drama/horror/action thing.  I watched it but I don't know anyone else who did.  I don't know how much Netflix paid for it but surely not enough people are watching it to justify the expense.  What's the deal?

Not only are they selling content, they are selling content to people who probably don't watch wrestling.  If you are selling a wrestling show to people who don't watch wrestling they can look at Brock and Roman and think, "those guys look like pro wrestlers."  We would rather watch Bryan Danielson and the rest of the lollipop guild, because we actually like wrestling.  You can't sell wrestling to a bunch of networks when the roster is filled with guys who look like accountants.  We know that Brian Danielson, Rey Mysterio, AJ Styles, and other smaller wrestlers are awesome, but they aren't interested in selling us anything.

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4 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said:

And to think people were complaining about the draw talk. 

Nash was a part of that conversation, too.

Truly, the man is a scourge on conversations about pro wrestling. 

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4 minutes ago, supremebve said:

 You can't sell wrestling to a bunch of networks when the roster is filled with guys who look like accountants.  We know that Brian Danielson, Rey Mysterio, AJ Styles, and other smaller wrestlers are awesome, but they aren't interested in selling us anything.

Are you going to sit there and tell me Drew By God Gulak isn't a draw?!

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2 minutes ago, Wyld Samurai said:

Are you going to sit there and tell me Drew By God Gulak isn't a draw?!

Nope.  I'm saying that they aren't interested in drawing people who are interested in Drew By God Gulak.  They are looking to make money in $100+ million chunks, we don't got no money.

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1 hour ago, Eivion said:

The match between Big E and Roman was completely wasted at last year Survivor Series. It was good, but the reactions received made it clear that was Summerslam big at worst and probably should have been saved for a Wrestlemania.

I thought that should have been the direction for WM 37. That Smackdown around the holidays in 2020 when he one the IC title did a nice rating relative to the time and was a dope moment. When he one the world title it was cool but they didn't give him anything to work with. He was an afterthought 

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2 hours ago, supremebve said:

Not only are they selling content, they are selling content to people who probably don't watch wrestling.  If you are selling a wrestling show to people who don't watch wrestling they can look at Brock and Roman and think, "those guys look like pro wrestlers."  We would rather watch Bryan Danielson and the rest of the lollipop guild, because we actually like wrestling.  You can't sell wrestling to a bunch of networks when the roster is filled with guys who look like accountants.  We know that Brian Danielson, Rey Mysterio, AJ Styles, and other smaller wrestlers are awesome, but they aren't interested in selling us anything.

I think now's probably a good time to point out that WWE quite literally landed the biggest star in music last year in Bad Bunny to show up at WrestleMania and most wrestling fans went "who the hell is Bad Bunny?", and vociferously complained about him being involved. That turned out pretty dang good for them.

So as far as capturing mainstream attention, I don't know if I'd trust anyone who's hardcore into wrestling to be a great judge. (Myself included, in case anyone's going to get mad at me for saying that.)

Edited by Stefanie the Human
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25 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

So as far as capturing mainstream attention, I don't know if I'd trust anyone who's hardcore into wrestling to be a great judge. (Myself included, in case anyone's going to get mad at me for saying that.)

I remember right after the new (at the time) Punch Out for the Wii came out and was doing well, and Cena made a reference to it in a promo, and a recapper complained about how he was talking about a decades-old game.

We're all one step away from being Vince McMahon telling Freddie Prinze Jr. "We have Santino".

And yeah, Big E's a big missed opportunity, and unlike a lot of the missed opportunities of the past it's not like he has an attitude problem. I think if he was a few inches taller they'd have given him a better shot.

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28 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

I think now's probably a good time to point out that WWE quite literally landed the biggest star in music last year in Bad Bunny to show up at WrestleMania and most wrestling fans went "who the hell is Bad Bunny?", and vociferously complained about him being involved. That turned out pretty dang good for them.

So as far as capturing mainstream attention, I don't know if I'd trust anyone who's hardcore into wrestling to be a great judge. (Myself included, in case anyone's going to get mad at me for saying that.)

Too late, I'm already heated, what do you even know, wrestling is about wrestlers, dammit, my brother-in-law's niece's cousin doesn't know who this Bad Bunny is so who says the kids know him, etc., etc. 

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12 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Too late, I'm already heated, what do you even know, wrestling is about wrestlers, dammit, my brother-in-law's niece's cousin doesn't know who this Bad Bunny is so who says the kids know him, etc., etc. 

Kim Petras put out the most delightfully filthy pop album of the last 25 years, even though Twitter says I'm not supposed to like her because she works with Dr. Luke, but she also vogued in front of Westboro Baptist Church protesters a few years ago, so that was cool, and how am I not supposed to support a trans pop star even if she works with a monster?

Anyway, she should be the Smackdown Women's Champio-... wait what were we talking about?

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Just now, Stefanie the Human said:

So as far as capturing mainstream attention, I don't know if I'd trust anyone who's hardcore into wrestling to be a great judge. (Myself included, in case anyone's going to get mad at me for saying that.)

I 100% agree, but it's also why we haven't had a great crossover star in 20 years.  I think you can build a great wrestling show around a great wrestler and capture mainstream attention if they catch on fire.  I don't think you can ever get there the way they are doing it now.  You can make a star out of someone who is overly exceptional at whatever it is they do.  People flock to excellence.  You can't create that kind of star, that kind of star has to emerge naturally.  There is a ceiling on their current plan, but there is no ceiling when you let things catch on organically.

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5 minutes ago, Stefanie the Human said:

Kim Petras put out the most delightfully filthy pop album of the last 25 years, even though Twitter says I'm not supposed to like her because she works with Dr. Luke, but she also vogued in front of Westboro Baptist Church protesters a few years ago, so that was cool, and how am I not supposed to support a trans pop star even if she works with a monster?

Anyway, she should be the Smackdown Women's Champio-... wait what were we talking about?

Trans pop star = great gimmick/personal, would be cool for representation

Trans pop star in the hands of WWE = please no, please NO

EDIT: I'm a straight cis dude, so maybe I'm entirely wrong about this, but you could absolutely give a charismatic wrestler basically a Jem gimmick and it would get massively over with a diverse portion of the audience, and I'm confused as to why that hasn't happened in a major company yet/in a while. 

 

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
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8 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

EDIT: I'm a straight cis dude, so maybe I'm entirely wrong about this, but you could absolutely give a charismatic wrestler basically a Jem gimmick and it would get massively over with a diverse portion of the audience, and I'm confused as to why that hasn't happened in a major company yet/in a while. 

 

The fans in the building can't really see the hologram tech as well as everyone at home, but fuck 'em, that would be truly outrageous.

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20 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Trans pop star = great gimmick/personal, would be cool for representation

Trans pop star in the hands of WWE = please no, please NO

EDIT: I'm a straight cis dude, so maybe I'm entirely wrong about this, but you could absolutely give a charismatic wrestler basically a Jem gimmick and it would get massively over with a diverse portion of the audience, and I'm confused as to why that hasn't happened in a major company yet/in a while. 

 

I remember Rico's finally run where he was he was Jackie Gayas camps fun friend and it was getting over , but he got cut for being 40

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