A_K Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 5 minutes ago, Log said: Is there a Roman Reigns Wrestlemania main event that doesn't involve a part-timer or legend that could "draw big money"? Like, is there anyone on the roster that he could face that would generate ticket sales other than the "I'm going to Wrestlemania" ticket sales? Do those kinds of ticket sales even exist for Wrestlemania? Probably not, but indulge me here. Anyone says Cody and I drive to your house and smack you. No - hence they’ve changed their recruitment process. As with any business, the idea that the “brand” trumps “content” is a nice idea only in the very short term. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A_K Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 P.s. — Roman is at the start of his mainstream-exposure arc. As the late 21/early 22 “Tonight Show” appearances attest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 12 minutes ago, Log said: Is there a Roman Reigns Wrestlemania main event that doesn't involve a part-timer or legend that could "draw big money"? Like, is there anyone on the roster that he could face that would generate ticket sales other than the "I'm going to Wrestlemania" ticket sales? Do those kinds of ticket sales even exist for Wrestlemania? Probably not, but indulge me here. Anyone says Cody and I drive to your house and smack you. My first answer would prob be a mega pushed Rex Steiner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 9 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: I mostly agree with you, but not on the celebrity WM involvement. That would be like saying well if Hogan was a mega-star in 1985 they wouldn't have needed Ali & Liberace and shit. Wrestlemania is based around celebrity involvement. So them using Johnny Knoxville or Logan Paul would have happened regardless of how many tickets sold or how popular the brand is / how big of a mega-star Roman is. At the first Wrestlemania, the celebs were a pathway to get eyes on the wrestlers. I can't quite put my finger on it, but it's different now. It's like, back then, the celebrities wanted to hang around this fun, cool new fad. Now, WWE feels more needy about it. Like, "Hey, look! Logan Paul! You like him, right? Come watch him on our thing!" Whereas, in 84-85, it was more like, "Cindy Lauper is really popular. She seems to be into this WWF thing. I should check that out." 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, odessasteps said: My first answer would prob be a mega pushed Rex Steiner. I think that's probably correct in a couple years, but I don't think that generates a huge buzz now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caley Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Oh good the "is he a draw?/who is a draw?" conversation is still...going... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Just now, Log said: I think that's probably correct in a couple years, but I don't think that generates a huge buzz now. Yeah. You’d need like 2+ years of a Goldberg push, but they already ruined the chance of the undefeated gimmick with him. I guess they could do it for Steveson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Since BTS has recently done shows on both WM 2 and 3, it’s interesting to see how they went so overboard with celebrities at 2 and how it really didn’t do anything for them and then they pulled way back at 3, where they had a humongous match to sell the show. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 Some think AEW will have to cut down on the blood and lang. I think only hardway and blood capsule would be used after then. AEW PPV's probably will be extempt from those possible changes. At least AEW doesn't have to worry about the defunct Standards and Practises like WCW did. Which axed angles and contents. WCW was a wholly-owned subsidiary of Turner. AEW is an independent production company, so they're not too beholden like WCW was, and have less to worry about in changes to creative and can support themselves financially. The only reason I posted about the Warner Bros. Discovery news days ago, is because what the future holds for Rampage.... if WBD decides to cut costs or move the show to TBS or elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, caley said: Oh good the "is he a draw?/who is a draw?" conversation is still...going... You can not read it. I'm not really interested in who can/can't draw. I just think it's interesting discussing how the metrics of what constitutes a "draw" in pro wrestling has changed over the years. Used to, you could point to hard numbers in attendance, ticket sales or ratings (though we all understand that they're not objective). Now, it's more nebulous. Sure, a company may get x dollars for their tv deal while this guy was champ, but how much of x was because of him? Judging by the amount of replies, I'd say a lot of us are interested in this conversation. It's cool that you're not, but maybe contribute something more worthwhile or don't post? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 2 minutes ago, Blue Dragon said: Some think AEW will have to cut down on the blood and lang. I think only hardway and blood capsule would be used after then. AEW PPV's probably will be extempt from those possible changes. At least AEW doesn't have to worry about the defunct Standards and Practises like WCW did. Which axed angles and contents. WCW was a wholly-owned subsidiary of Turner. AEW is an independent production company, so they're not too beholden like WCW was, and have less to worry about in changes to creative and can support themselves financially. The only reason I posted about the Warner Bros. Discovery news days ago, is because what the future holds for Rampage.... if WBD decides to cut costs or move the show to TBS or elsewhere. The standards of what is allowed on basic cable has changed drastically since WCW was on, as well. I swear I've heard some "fuck"s on movies shown on FX and maybe TNT. Sometimes I'm shocked at how not-edited some movies are that they show. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Natural Posted April 20, 2022 Author Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) 28 minutes ago, Log said: Is there a Roman Reigns Wrestlemania main event that doesn't involve a part-timer or legend that could "draw big money"? Like, is there anyone on the roster that he could face that would generate ticket sales other than the "I'm going to Wrestlemania" ticket sales? Do those kinds of ticket sales even exist for Wrestlemania? Probably not, but indulge me here. Anyone says Cody and I drive to your house and smack you. Cody... ...There's an ocean between us. . In all honestly I'm drawing (pun not intended) a blank. Edited April 20, 2022 by The Natural 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DJ Hero Morganti Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 You could probably build to Roman vs Big E or Xavier Woods using the history of the new day/usos and create a buzz. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra Commander Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 13 minutes ago, odessasteps said: Since BTS has recently done shows on both WM 2 and 3, it’s interesting to see how they went so overboard with celebrities at 2 and how it really didn’t do anything for them and then they pulled way back at 3, where they had a humongous match to sell the show. Wonder how much of having 3 sites for Wrestlemania 2 involved having more sites than the 2 site Starrcades Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kang Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 You have to combine all of the metrics or use few of them to see who is the top draw. Anyway American Pro Wres has moved away from attendance being the main driving thing. In Japan attendance still matters more, still even they want the tv money and the other means of making or getting money nowadays as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 25 minutes ago, caley said: Oh good the "is he a draw?/who is a draw?" conversation is still...going... Nah, we settled that conversation by noting the different contexts in which Roman is or isn't a draw. Now we're onto discussing the company's influence on Roman's ability to be a draw. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 hour ago, NoFistsJustFlips said: I mostly agree with you, but not on the celebrity WM involvement. That would be like saying well if Hogan was a mega-star in 1985 they wouldn't have needed Ali & Liberace and shit. Wrestlemania is based around celebrity involvement. So them using Johnny Knoxville or Logan Paul would have happened regardless of how many tickets sold or how popular the brand is / how big of a mega-star Roman is. Fair point though I don't think Ali or Liberace meant a whole lot. Cyndi and T did, obviously but as we transition in '87 the celebrity involvement wasn't needed as a focal point. Hogan used that celebrity exposure to become an all time star. Austin is another good example. The Tyson thing was huge in launching him but WM 15, 16, 17 you didn't need an outside celebrity to carry the ball. Austin and Rock and the gang WERE the celebrities. John Cena main evented for over a decade and aside from the Donald Trump angle when did the WWE load up the celebrities at the big shows as the main draw? This is definitely a more modern trend because they don't trust their stars to be able to bring in fans. If they believed in their guys you don't pay whatever they pay Bad Bunny or Ronda Rousey or Logan Paul or Johnny Knoxville or STEVE AUSTIN to bail out these shows. I mean, this UK show...they're totally gonna try to get Tyson Fury in there. You think they're going to trust Roman vs Drew alone to sell (even though they probably won't need Fury because the pent-up demand is so great)? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John from Cincinnati Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 8 minutes ago, Hagan said: John Cena main evented for over a decade and aside from the Donald Trump angle when did the WWE load up the celebrities at the big shows as the main draw? The next year with Mayweather. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 38 minutes ago, John from Cincinnati said: The next year with Mayweather. Snoop was featured celeb at 24 too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Morganti said: You could probably build to Roman vs Big E or Xavier Woods using the history of the new day/usos and create a buzz. Big E is WWE's biggest miss, IMO. That guy has "It" and a LOT of it. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinit Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 10 minutes ago, Log said: Big E is WWE's biggest miss, IMO. That guy has "It" and a LOT of it. It's too bad Vinny has a very narrow view of what "IT" is. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 hour ago, Cobra Commander said: Wonder how much of having 3 sites for Wrestlemania 2 involved having more sites than the 2 site Starrcades That and Vince wanting to run coast to coast and/or NY/Chicago/LA for media hits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
odessasteps Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) If you did six man matches that lead a match between Roman and the pushed member of New Day, especially if Big E comes back from his broken neck, would be a good story. Edited April 20, 2022 by odessasteps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SirSmUgly Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 (edited) They can build whomever they want at this point if we're just focused on the remaining hardcore audience. When they want to, they can commit. Honestly, the vast majority of my wrestling watching in the past three or so years has been between the years of 1970 and 1998, so I don't know if there's anyone on a roster anywhere in the U.S. that can be a legitimate crossover star, but I don't think that the fragmentation of entertainment media means that it's not possible to do that anymore in wrestling. Things break through all the time and become broadly hot amongst a wide demographic. Everyone on the planet just went to see a Spider-Man movie a few months ago. Yeah, Spidey has a rich history, so it's not one-to-one, but I think the right talent could absolutely get hot and become a megastar in 2022 that drives ratings and subs. The issue is that it won't happen in either WWE or AEW because the conditions aren't right in either company for it (though for very different reasons). But theoretically, yeah, things still catch on with multiple demos. I could see the right characters for the right company coming along and sparking a one or two year hot streak for pro wrestling again. Edited April 20, 2022 by SirSmellingtonofCascadia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hagan Posted April 20, 2022 Share Posted April 20, 2022 1 hour ago, John from Cincinnati said: The next year with Mayweather. Great point. Totally forgot about that. I concede my point though I do think they've definitely double-down on celebrities the last few years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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