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Dynamite - 3/23/22


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For all it's highs and lows, I think one thing most of us could probably agree upon about the women's division is that in no way is it large enough to support two titles at this time. I'm thankful for Dark (and I suppose moving forward ROH) developing some more women, but after a deluge of good to great signings in the men's division, i'd like to see some more signings in the women's division. Ember Moon has to be free soon. Skye Blue and Willow Nightingale should be signed full time. I know TV time is scarce but it's gotta be done. For example, where do you go with Britt Baker from here? Back to Ruby? She's worked basically everyone at this point

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54 minutes ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I think when people start comparing Liger/Sasuke to Velvet/Hirsch that the plot has been lost a bit. That wasn't the "only" thing wrong with the match, its the easiest example, and the issue wasn't necessarily it was a botch but two wrestlers doing things they don't have the skills to do yet which took some people out of the match. Which wasn't the case with Liger/Sasuke, as that was an amazing match beyond the foot slip. Just feels like an odd match to get defensive about, it was a so-so short midcard Dynamite match.

Plus, NoFistsJustFlips said he thought the match was ok. Which is about as good as its going to get with those two in a six minute TV match. Anyone arguing that it was a masterpiece is probably watching wrestling different than most others. For the record, I like both the Young Bucks and Mark Henry like I am sure many others so dividing fans into two camps doesn't make any sense either. Its not that serious, sometimes matches just don't click with people, its not a broader conspiracy.

I really want to make the "Yeah, but you're a Keiji Mutoh fan, so what do you know?" joke, but I'm afraid it would be taken seriously .

(Keep in mind that I might be Osaka Pro's #2 Gaijin fan, so what do I know?)

Just to be clear: My point was not "Hirsch vs Velvet = Liger vs Sasuke" but that a percentage of online wrestling discussion seems to, in some corners, have taken a hard swing into "perfect execution is necessary at all times" territory.

I blame BotchMania.

The interesting discussion point here might be:

Should everyone in AEW refrain from trying new things? (Obviously not).

So:

With AEW not running house shows, where do does their roster get the chance to get reps on trying and perfecting new things? 

The factory? Between the time the ring is set up and the crowd is let in? 

Can the ROH acquisition provide a work-around for this? 

 

In the meantime, I'm fine with the occasional slip-up. Gives the shows that sense that we're watching people work close to the edge, which can be exhilarating.

 

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Butcher is really becoming "guy who looks dangerous but, on replay, is safe as fuck."  On Rampage, he did his damnedest to catch Darby's nutty dive, slowing him down as best he could.  On Dynamite, after looking like he was going to powerbomb Darby to his death down the concrete stairs, he seriously laid Darby down gently as a newborn and Darby did the rest.

Speaking of blaming Botchamania, unless it says "Tommy Vercetti > Link," I don't want to see another video game sign again.

Edited by Technico Support
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If I was in an "offensive" mood (vs. "defensive") I'd list off every finisher in AEW that usually look bad. TayKO, Cole's Knee Thing, Miro's lean-back on his Camel Clutch, Ruby's kick, undercarder finishers like Alan Angels, Abadon, Sonny I wanna say?... then moves that only look bad 25%-50% of the time, GTS, Meltzer Driver, Black Mass, Backfist to the Future, Judas Effect...

I was watching a SANADA match the other day. I think he has the worst moveset on Earth if only because of the Skull End and Paradise Lock being the two moves he builds his matches around. It got me to thinking... how has *nobody* told him to knock it off? That those two moves could absolutely be the factors keeping him from the top? And yeah, there's a lot of repeated ass-lookin' moves in AEW, I wonder who should be consulting with the talent about it? Is it considered really, really rude for management/a fellow wrestler to tell someone a move looks like garbage? 

Point is I'm not going to give the only person to ever make the Overdrive look good in Red Velvet a hard time over a slip that got covered for when so much of the main event scene has the same problem - even if her general moveset could use pruning.

Edited by John E. Dynamite
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4 hours ago, Gordlow said:

I guess if Liger vs Sasauke Super J Cup 1994 happened today a bunch of people would hate it because "Sasuke blew the finish."

I still gave it *****. Liger's taunting the botch cost him the match by the flash Hurricarana. Both recovered it well.

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I'm pretty stoked Nyla is next in line to face Rosa. I've been waiting to see them do more with her for a while now. I know she's supposed to be the "monster" of the women's division but if they ever turn her face and let her show some of the personality she shows on twitter, she's gonna become their most popular female performer pretty quickly.

Also fuck anyone who hates on trans people. They're humans too.

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Speaking of finishers that don't or do look good, i ALWAYS worry that Hangman is gonna stumble and fall on his face doing the Buckshot during a big climatic finishing sequence and look like an idiot. But he keeps surprising me every time and always hits all his cowboy shit clean af.

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17 hours ago, Cobra Commander said:

Layla/Velvet.. on one hand, the wrench that is supposed to catch the attention of the referee is supposed to be a little absurdly large for a wrestling weapon. On the other hand, it's absurdly large.

 

maybe it was a normal sized wrench but Leyla is so tiny?

 

Anyway I really didn't have a problem with Sammy bragging about having sex with his girlfriend however I could do with out "Lucha Whore-us" comment" Lambert and Jericho have used this slut/whore/stripper insults recently and I wish they would knock it off. AEW seems to have a decent fanbase of pre-teen girls. I follow Thonder Rosa on FB and she's always post pictures of her with young fans. Enough with the Misogynistic crap 

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2 hours ago, eikerir said:

Speaking of finishers that don't or do look good, i ALWAYS worry that Hangman is gonna stumble and fall on his face doing the Buckshot during a big climatic finishing sequence and look like an idiot. But he keeps surprising me every time and always hits all his cowboy shit clean af.

My concern from the Buckshot Lariat is the landing from the vault and Hangman Page doing his knees in but as you note, he cleanly hits it. Cowboy Shit.

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Just now, The Natural said:

My concern from the Buckshot Lariat is the landing from the vault and Hangman Page doing his knees in but as you note, he cleanly hits it. Cowboy Shit.

Yeah, I assume if he starts feeling it in his knees or gets older he can always go to a standard Lariat or something else. Everything he does looks pretty hurty so options are endless.

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This might well be the best CM Punk ever for what he's doing when you consider he walked away from wrestling for seven years and his age. It's either that or Punk's time in ROH with the Samoa Joe trilogy and Summer of Punk.

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36 minutes ago, The Natural said:

This might well be the best CM Punk ever for what he's doing when you consider he walked away from wrestling for seven years and his age. It's either that or Punk's time in ROH with the Samoa Joe trilogy and Summer of Punk.

I always felt Punk got better in the ring in WWE as he matured but he probably had lots more creative freedom in ROH, so current Punk might be the best of both worlds.

 

 

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14 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said:

I think when people start comparing Liger/Sasuke to Velvet/Hirsch that the plot has been lost a bit. That wasn't the "only" thing wrong with the match, its the easiest example, and the issue wasn't necessarily it was a botch but two wrestlers doing things they don't have the skills to do yet which took some people out of the match. Which wasn't the case with Liger/Sasuke, as that was an amazing match beyond the foot slip. Just feels like an odd match to get defensive about, it was a so-so short midcard Dynamite match.

Thank you this is way more eloquent than I was able to explain it. You nailed it. It isn't specifically that they botched a spot. It was the reason for the botch. They were trying stuff too difficult for what they can pull off yet. Liger/Sasuke were both seasoned pros at that point that could nail everything they were attempting. They just didn't in that finish. Mistakes happen. But their mistake wasn't due to poor planning. It was just a freak accident.

And to maybe help with where my head is at, I'm an indy worker. I don't watch matches for pure enjoyment anymore. My brain is wired different now. I look at everything from an analytical place. Deconstructing things from a place of study if you will. My criticism isn't something I expect all fans to also do like I do. And I should have been more clear about that. I'm watching from a perspective of using every match I watch to help teach me a lesson to get better. Not strictly just for pure enjoyment.
 

14 hours ago, Kevin Wilson said:

Plus, NoFistsJustFlips said he thought the match was ok. Which is about as good as its going to get with those two in a six minute TV match. Anyone arguing that it was a masterpiece is probably watching wrestling different than most others. For the record, I like both the Young Bucks and Mark Henry like I am sure many others so dividing fans into two camps doesn't make any sense either. Its not that serious, sometimes matches just don't click with people, its not a broader conspiracy.

Nailed it, thank you. I didn't hate the match or the workers. I thought it was okay and I think that's a fair assessment. It wasn't a bad match. It wasn't a good match. It was okay. There were parts of it that looked great and parts that looked bad. It's certainly nothing AEW should be embarrassed about showcasing on their TV. But it's not something we should be shouting from the rooftops about being the best in the business. Fair?

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On 3/24/2022 at 11:10 AM, NoFistsJustFlips said:

I so don't get the hate for the Tay & Sammy line. Like Paige had Brad Maddox finish on the actual NXT Women's Title and there wasn't this much outrage. I think people just dislike Sammy & Tay, and they're grasping at whatever to be mad about. Most any other pair doing that same line with that same Twitter pic wouldn't get the same outrage. Also strongly disagree with that Kingston Tweet. The TNT Title isn't a memorial to Brodie. Stuff that happens with the belt shouldn't immediately be considered to also be happening to Brodie. That's just taking things too seriously.

 

It just doesn't make you very likeable when you tell people of how you have sex. Seriously,  if you're at your friend's house,  and you comment on their new kitchen table, and they respond with,  "yeah,  we've fucked on it," you'd be a little weirded out by it right? That's what they did, and it just seems unnecessary. Nobody likes that couple. 

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29 minutes ago, supremebve said:

It just doesn't make you very likeable when you tell people of how you have sex. Seriously,  if you're at your friend's house,  and you comment on their new kitchen table, and they respond with,  "yeah,  we've fucked on it," you'd be a little weirded out by it right? That's what they did, and it just seems unnecessary. Nobody likes that couple. 

Good reply. I can see how two hot people talking about banging each other would get jealousy and heat. And that is not good for babyfaces.

My questioning wasn't in a sense this is getting heat, why? My questioning was this is getting you desecrated the memory of a dude that passed away responses, why? Totally reasonable to not like them as characters after that promo. Unreasonable to go on Twitter and rant about how it desecrated the memory of Brodie, or that they sullied the title's image and AEW needs to get rid of the TNT Title. Real takes I saw lots of randos running with on Twitter. And like the reference point I used Paige & Maddox legitimately finished ON the real NXT Women's belt and it didn't get this level of outrage / disrespect. I suppose Paige is likable and Sammy & Tay aren't. Plus projecting feelings of Sammy's prior relationship ending into all of it.

And I'm gonna be honest if friends tell me they fucked on a a table it'll probably turn me on not weird me out ?

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At this rate, "we fucked on it" should just be an AEW running gag. 

Fuego showing off his nice, newer car?  Tay and Sammy slide in to casually mention that they christened the backseat an hour ago.

Excalibur promoting AEW's first show in a new arena?  Tay and Sammy interrupt him to explain how they did the deed in the bleachers there last week.

Jade shows up and is proudly showing off her new cape?  Tay and Sammy exchange knowing glances and slyly point out conspicuous wet spot on the back of it.

And so on. 

 

Edited by Technico Support
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19 minutes ago, Technico Support said:

Jade shows up and is proudly showing off her new cape?  Tay and Sammy exchange knowing glances and slyly point out conspicuous wet spot on the back of it.

Jade has also tweaked her character to be much more sexual in a way that is kind of creepy.  She's basically turning into the female Georgy Porgy kissing the girls and making them cry. 

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55 minutes ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

And like the reference point I used Paige & Maddox legitimately finished ON the real NXT Women's belt and it didn't get this level of outrage / disrespect.

i don't know that i agree with that assessment. From what i remember seeing at the time, there was a LOT of anger about Paige's belt being disrespected. Probably moreso because it was the women's belt. And yet even more because she was the FIRST champ. As those vids surfaced a couple years after the events took place, more of the emphasis was placed on how Paige was treated than the physical belt (and obviously rightfully so), but there was still a lot of outrage over the belt.

but at least THAT was never explicitly mentioned on TV, from a babyface.

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7 minutes ago, twiztor said:

i don't know that i agree with that assessment. From what i remember seeing at the time, there was a LOT of anger about Paige's belt being disrespected. Probably moreso because it was the women's belt. And yet even more because she was the FIRST champ. As those vids surfaced a couple years after the events took place, more of the emphasis was placed on how Paige was treated than the physical belt (and obviously rightfully so), but there was still a lot of outrage over the belt.

but at least THAT was never explicitly mentioned on TV, from a babyface.

Yeah, I don't think we should judge something that happened on television with the same lens that we look at a leaked sex tape. Honestly,  I wouldn't care if fucking in a championship belt was part of a wrestler's contract,  but it doesn't need to be explicitly pointed out in television. I remember telling my roommate at the time that I would spend the rest of my life butt naked wearing nothing but a championship belt if I actually got with this Colombian girl in college who went on to be a Univision reporter. I'm not a prude about this type of thing,  I just thought the segment was cringe worthy. 

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21 minutes ago, twiztor said:

i don't know that i agree with that assessment. From what i remember seeing at the time, there was a LOT of anger about Paige's belt being disrespected. Probably moreso because it was the women's belt. And yet even more because she was the FIRST champ. As those vids surfaced a couple years after the events took place, more of the emphasis was placed on how Paige was treated than the physical belt (and obviously rightfully so), but there was still a lot of outrage over the belt.

but at least THAT was never explicitly mentioned on TV, from a babyface.

Quite frankly, we call them "Championships", Pal.

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Good point actually. The Paige thing was not referenced on TV so it's not a good comparison after all.

I guess I understand the position a little better now. It's not people complaining of the actual action, it's people complaining that the scripted idea of it is not something want part of the stories. And that is a fair point of view.

But just like Hobo Joe said, just know that we're all banging with the belts on, off screen ?

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