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Remembering Scott Hall (1958-2022)


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That entire shoot is on youtube on the channel "best of the KC archive" or similar (it's their own channel not a reup), but as with a lot of of their stuff there is a ton of grim misogyny as well


https://www.wrestlinginc.com/news/2022/03/news-on-scott-halls-health-before-his-passing-sean-waltman-on-hall-suffering-during-the-pandemic/

Unfortunately it sounds like Hall's final years were not good, Waltman seems to imply he basically fell off the wagon and became isolated because of the pandemic, and when he fell and broke his hip he was lying around for days before DDP checked in on him because nobody had heard from him, pretty miserable stuff

 

Edited by Firebreaker Chip
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I've seen a number of people on Twitter and Reddit kind of getting on Pac's case for stating that publicly, but in my completely unqualified opinion, I think in the long run showing the reality of the situation might help people who may be struggling. People who don't understand how difficult sobriety is or what those steps entail want to hang on to Hall's redemption story without realizing that it isn't completely negated just because he had a rough couple years at the end, when relapse is a completely expected part of the process from what I understand about it, and if I'm wrong please anyone feel free to correct me

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On 3/16/2022 at 4:27 PM, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Legit might be the best one, actually. 

Man, before he had all those injuries, Kid could fucking go. 1994-1996 Kid has got to be one of my favorite workers ever. Most guys who go-go-go irritate me for some reason, but Kid is captivating. Maybe because he feels more out-of-control even though he hits his shit cleanly? He's also an elite bumper and great at showing fatigue through body language. 

Waltman is one of those dudes who I never think about when thinking about the very best wrestlers to exist, but he would get more than a look-in on my final list. 

if you haven't yet I  love his 1991 run in GWF as a heel Lightning Kid.  He was on fire even then and was the  heel you wanted to see get their ass kicked. Tremendous worker. 

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I think Waltman is right to speak the truth on this. The pandemic era has been very hard on people in recovery the isolation and stress has lead to relapses across the country for every type of addiction. None of that discounts the hard work Hall put in over the past ten years. It’s not Scott’s fault that there has been a lack of resources provided to both people in recovery and those who work with them. My work deals with some of this stuff and we applied for a grant in April 2020 to provide support specifically related to these issues and it wasn’t approved and funded until September 2021 by that time the damage has been done. Scott didn’t “fail” his sobriety, society failed him and many others.

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I think we all knew that this type of thing was possible and probable. We’ve discussed this before concerning other wrestlers and situations. Nobody just up and walks into the daisies somewhere forever fresh out of rehab. Also broken hips often have other bad situations attached to them and that put my radar for this back on. But what sublime said. It doesn’t take away from Hall’s incredible career and contributions to wrestling at this point. Also Hall actually fought his demons. He didn’t just take a paid vacation from them then rejoin the party as soon as it got a little rough. I respect that regardless of how it ended. 

I think Waltman is doing the right thing but I would want to know a little more about it and what his real motivation is behind doing this before I made a final judgement with him. 

I’ve had my fill of Nash though actually. I referred to an example why before and don’t need to say it again, and I just don’t buy his attitude change in general. 

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I've always felt like Hall, Waltman and even Nash would be looked at as better workers than people give them credit for when all is said and done. You hear Hall talk about psychology of tag matches and working the camera and all the details like that same with Nash. I remember Nash talking about working with younger guys in TNA and he'd pretend like he forgot a planned spot just so his opponent would have no choice to improve and learn to think on his feet. Shawn and Hunter both have been manufactured by WWE as 2 of the best ever. Whether it's true or not isn't my point but because the other Kliq Members haven't been WWE lifers like those 2 it's hard to measure their workrate on the same scale.

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Does anyone else remember the WWF magazine where they went into Razor's backstory in Cuba? IIRC, he was a plucked from the streets by Castro because they saw his potential as an athlete. He spent years being a pampered athlete but also under the thumb of Castro's regime. He saw an opportunity to escape via raft with some other people and he took it. THe soldiers were firing at the escapees but Razor didn't give a fuck and got on the raft. As the raft was getting going, he noticed that they were being slowed down due to an old man clinging to the side. And this is the part I remember vividly from the story, Razor looked at the old man and said, "Lo siento viejo, pero la vida es dura" which translates to "I'm sorry old man, but life is hard" and kicked him off the raft. I'm kind of surprised none of that ever made it to tv when he was a heel because it seems like they spent a long time crafting that story.

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On 3/17/2022 at 7:24 PM, BloodyChamp said:

Also this thread can’t be without a gif of this greatness.

https://imgur.com/gallery/kTjksYe

 

Great gif to share. His fallaway slam was a thing of beauty. I think he got surprisingly little "pop" when returning to WWF in 2002. I mean, that was only a few years after his height in WCW (I assume that gif may be 98?) but next to nothing of that rabid elation from the late 90s fans was left over. Was it simply because WCW fans didnt carry over to WWF? Because they were not filming shows in WCW territory arenas? Would love to know the mechanics for that falling so flat.

 

20 minutes ago, cwoy2j said:

Razor looked at the old man and said, "Lo siento viejo, pero la vida es dura" which translates to "I'm sorry old man, but life is hard" and kicked him off the raft. I'm kind of surprised none of that ever made it to tv when he was a heel because it seems like they spent a long time crafting that story.

Well to be fair, somewhat of a line between pulling a tablecloth off and committing murder out at sea.

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24 minutes ago, A_K said:

Great gif to share. His fallaway slam was a thing of beauty. I think he got surprisingly little "pop" when returning to WWF in 2002. I mean, that was only a few years after his height in WCW (I assume that gif may be 98?) but next to nothing of that rabid elation from the late 90s fans was left over. Was it simply because WCW fans didnt carry over to WWF? Because they were not filming shows in WCW territory arenas? Would love to know the mechanics for that falling so flat.

 

Well to be fair, somewhat of a line between pulling a tablecloth off and committing murder out at sea.

Eh they were close enough to the shore that the old man could've swam back.

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1 hour ago, cwoy2j said:

Eh they were close enough to the shore that the old man could've swam back.

Should have poked in him the eye with the tooth pick then for good measure 😉 

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2 hours ago, A_K said:

Great gif to share. His fallaway slam was a thing of beauty. I think he got surprisingly little "pop" when returning to WWF in 2002. I mean, that was only a few years after his height in WCW (I assume that gif may be 98?) but next to nothing of that rabid elation from the late 90s fans was left over. Was it simply because WCW fans didnt carry over to WWF? Because they were not filming shows in WCW territory arenas? Would love to know the mechanics for that falling so flat.

 

 

I think it was a few things. The whole angle fell flat really. Flair/UT was good and Rock/Hogan was good but the good didn’t outweigh the bad. Hall caught the raw end of more of it because he was subbing for Hogan vs Austin in many people’s minds. He also had a little late career Von Erich boys thing going on personally. People knew what was going on with him and weren’t as mad at him as they were just over him. I sure wish I could tell that guy what I thought of him now though gosh. 

Edited by BloodyChamp
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6 hours ago, A_K said:

His fallaway slam was a thing of beauty. I think he got surprisingly little "pop" when returning to WWF in 2002. I mean, that was only a few years after his height in WCW (I assume that gif may be 98?) but next to nothing of that rabid elation from the late 90s fans was left over. Was it simply because WCW fans didnt carry over to WWF? Because they were not filming shows in WCW territory arenas? Would love to know the mechanics for that falling so flat.

 

 

I marked out seeing those guys back in WWF when they came back but you know how petty that company is. It's funny I remember after Sting had his WWE run Hall joked about how Sting should have have a "no job" clause in his contract and went on how there is still a WCW bias. Bruce covered on his podcast about how some guys didn't want them back at the time in '02 because of their reputation of being lazy. I think they knew what was expected of them and they all stepped it up. They all looked happy to be back in WWF. The booking sucked, especially for Scott Hall with the beer and him literally struggling to stay sober. I was bummed when he got released and Nash getting injured twice. I marked out seeing Shawn being added to the NWO, It was a few weeks after Hall got released and then Nash got injured again and they had to end it. I thought it had potential even when they had to turn Hulk face and added Pac. He came back with the short tights looking super ripped and he was really being treated seriously in WWF since his run with Kane. 

At that time you could consider me a WWF guy but even with them coming in as the NWO, Hogan, Hall and Nash I looked at them as WWF guys that finally returned home which is funny because the NWO started as a subliminal invasion of WWF guys in WCW and now WWF guy legit looked at these guys as WCW guys even though I didn't exist anymore. It would be like if Bret never got hurt and they brought him back a few years after WCW and they painted him as a WCW guy. 

It's crazy but it's probably Vinces mentality more than anybody because if he looked at it as these guys are coming back home, the rest of the locker room would see it the same way. It's the same way with the preception of the guys that come over during the Invasion angle, you buy your competition but you allow your locker room to treat them like outsiders ? It's a very petty mindset that have cost them so much money SMH 

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38 minutes ago, Ziggy said:

The booking sucked, especially for Scott Hall with the beer and him literally struggling to stay sober.

That whole story is unbelievably fucking stupid. Bruce went into it on his podcast. They knew he was on Antabuse, and still did take after take after take late into the night, dousing him in alcohol.

Edited by PetrolCB
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2 hours ago, Ziggy said:

I marked out seeing those guys back in WWF when they came back but you know how petty that company is. It's funny I remember after Sting had his WWE run Hall joked about how Sting should have have a "no job" clause in his contract and went on how there is still a WCW bias. Bruce covered on his podcast about how some guys didn't want them back at the time in '02 because of their reputation of being lazy. I think they knew what was expected of them and they all stepped it up. They all looked happy to be back in WWF. The booking sucked, especially for Scott Hall with the beer and him literally struggling to stay sober. I was bummed when he got released and Nash getting injured twice. I marked out seeing Shawn being added to the NWO, It was a few weeks after Hall got released and then Nash got injured again and they had to end it. I thought it had potential even when they had to turn Hulk face and added Pac. He came back with the short tights looking super ripped and he was really being treated seriously in WWF since his run with Kane. 

At that time you could consider me a WWF guy but even with them coming in as the NWO, Hogan, Hall and Nash I looked at them as WWF guys that finally returned home which is funny because the NWO started as a subliminal invasion of WWF guys in WCW and now WWF guy legit looked at these guys as WCW guys even though I didn't exist anymore. It would be like if Bret never got hurt and they brought him back a few years after WCW and they painted him as a WCW guy. 

It's crazy but it's probably Vinces mentality more than anybody because if he looked at it as these guys are coming back home, the rest of the locker room would see it the same way. It's the same way with the preception of the guys that come over during the Invasion angle, you buy your competition but you allow your locker room to treat them like outsiders ? It's a very petty mindset that have cost them so much money SMH 

Good post. Yes time plays tricks on the mind; for the past decade almost it feels like they've had the same guys front and centre in the company (I mean Lesnar's been presented the same way for basically 10 years straight now), whereas back then they had a ton of different talent-epochs compressed within a very small amount of time. The booking was bad for sure, but even so it seemed very few of them could get any reaction outside of Hogan. Peak-WCW did always seem to have a harder party crowd than WWF to me (all those big spring break events), and maybe that cool off contributed to it too. Maybe also the fatigue from the prior Invasion storyline contributed. Either way, it was a lethargic program for what should have been a really special return on Hogan/Hall/Nash who not even WCW could put in the same room together during their final years.

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On 3/18/2022 at 12:33 PM, Sublime said:

I think Waltman is right to speak the truth on this. The pandemic era has been very hard on people in recovery the isolation and stress has lead to relapses across the country for every type of addiction. None of that discounts the hard work Hall put in over the past ten years. It’s not Scott’s fault that there has been a lack of resources provided to both people in recovery and those who work with them. My work deals with some of this stuff and we applied for a grant in April 2020 to provide support specifically related to these issues and it wasn’t approved and funded until September 2021 by that time the damage has been done. Scott didn’t “fail” his sobriety, society failed him and many others.

Waltman was close friends with the man. So unless Hall's family requested those details kept private, I'm not that bothered by it. But I have no idea how Hall's family and kids feel about it. 

It does very much sadden me to hear he was in such bad shape and wasn't doing well before he died. His relapses over the years were documented. Though I wasn't sure how things were with him in the last few years. 

And as sad as this all is, it's not the responsibility of Hall's relatives or his close friends to take care of him and make sure he stays clean and sober and check in on him 100% of the time. He's still a grown adult man at the end of the day. If he needed a sober living companion or a roommate, he could've put in for that. 

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11 hours ago, A_K said:

Great gif to share. His fallaway slam was a thing of beauty. I think he got surprisingly little "pop" when returning to WWF in 2002. I mean, that was only a few years after his height in WCW (I assume that gif may be 98?) but next to nothing of that rabid elation from the late 90s fans was left over. Was it simply because WCW fans didnt carry over to WWF? Because they were not filming shows in WCW territory arenas? Would love to know the mechanics for that falling so flat.

 

I could be recalling incorrectly but a large portion of the fans were sorta done with Hall by the last couple years of WCW, he was always gone for the obvious reasons and it wasn't like he was tearing the house down when he was there. Heck at the time people were confused as to why you'd bother with Hall vs Austin when Nash was right there and it's not like Nash at that point had a sterling reputation.

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12 hours ago, username said:

 

I could be recalling incorrectly but a large portion of the fans were sorta done with Hall by the last couple years of WCW, he was always gone for the obvious reasons and it wasn't like he was tearing the house down when he was there. Heck at the time people were confused as to why you'd bother with Hall vs Austin when Nash was right there and it's not like Nash at that point had a sterling reputation.

I dunno, I remember Hall still being pretty popular at the end of WCW. I remember that stupid San Francisco 49ers match where Booker and Jeff Jarrett had to get the WCW title out of boxes that were on each ringpost. Booker got one of the dummy boxes that had a pic of Scott Hall in it and that picture got a big pop. This was around the time where Hall wasn't around much so I think it was one of those "absence makes the heart grow fonder" deals.

wpdopo4y4yb61.jpg

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That definitely got a pop lol and I think it was discussed in good taste on like page 2. Maybe a couple people missed it but I compared him to the Von Erich boys at the end. He was still great, especially when he showed up, but that wasn’t every night and people knew the pattern. 

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1 hour ago, zendragon said:

I remember he got a huge pop at Slamborree 98 of course after everything in WCW starts to feel like a mess

I'd argue the finish to that very main event was a mess to be honest with you, kicking off two decades of nonsensical Paul Wight turns. But yeah, it was great to see Hall back that night. In retrospect, I wonder if he got such a big pop in part because Worcester was such a WWF town

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