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March 2022 Wrestling Discussion


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Jacques Rougeau [Jr.] is absolutely an all time Top 5-10 guy for me because few things better encapsulate pro wrestling and what I enjoy about it than the semi-delusional obnoxious loudmouth jackass heel who, while mostly ridiculous and in over his head also remains just dangerous enough to remain an infuriating menace.  And who never goes away no matter how badly his ass gets kicked.  Yet is hilarious all the time.  Jacques was pretty much the first iteration of that I saw. And probably still the best.

Darsow is another guy who always completely commits to the bit and never allowed himself to be so cool as to wink through the fourth wall.

"Comedy Jobbers" yet with some legit threat to win.

 

i think this goes a long way towards explaining why I'm such a booster for Jessie McKay as well.



 

Edited by BobbyWhioux
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2 hours ago, For Great Justice said:

Sid

Sid sucks, I acknowledge that he sucks, I recognize that he sucks, but for pretty much my entire life I was happy when he was on my television.

For me all time, it is either Randy Savage or Eddy Guerrero.  I will never be as big of a fan as I was as a kid loving Randy Savage and jumping off my porch dropping elbows on imaginary opponents.  I'm pretty sure Macho Man's elbow drop did more to make me a fan than anything else in all of wrestling.  Something about him jumping off the top rope and dropping an elbow spoke to my motherfucking soul.  The only other point in my life where wrestling that important was my high-school years which pretty much coincided with the Monday Night Wars.  Steve Austin is probably 3rd on this list, but once I got into the wrestling discussions on the internet Eddy Guerrero is the guy who really stood out to me.  When he was a generic babyface with the white and red singlet, I wasn't that big of a fan.  He was good and all, but nothing felt special about him.  Then, he turned heel and everything changed.  Instead of having the big bushy mullet, he wet that shit and looked bad ass.  He looked like he was standing outside in the rain all damn day, hoping some poor asshole walked by so he could beat their ass and steal their shoes.  Not because he didn't have any shoes, but because walking home after you just got your ass beat during a rainstorm would suck even worse if you weren't wearing shoes.  My favorite match of all time is Rey vs. Guerrero from Halloween Havoc '97.  Fun fact, that is the first PPV I was ever allowed to order.  I taped it of course, and watched that match at least 150 times, and it still feels special to me.  I used to pack that tape in my suitcase when I went to visit my grandparents, so I'd have it in case I got bored and wanted to watch it again. It's the perfect wrestling match to me, and probably always will be.

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Sid is one of the best pro wrestlers ever. Can't agree that he sucks. I don't give a shit how bad his punches are, and yes, I know that's sacrilege here at DVDVR.

He has intensity, he just makes you want to run through a wall when he comes out and starts fist-bumping folks, and he knows how to harness that to get over anywhere.

He's one of those guys who would get over in 1970, 1990, 2010, or now. Dudes like that are pro wrestling.

Though he's probably number one on that ol' "coasted on charisma and a dope finisher" list I mentioned earlier. 

Edited by SirSmellingtonofCascadia
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Sid is another one of those guys who is enhanced by the fact that he absolutely 100% never winks through the 4th wall.  Sid always behaved as though he completely believed wrestling was real.

This is why he is the guy who was able to drag the Shockmaster debut back on track and avert further disaster.

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1 minute ago, Morganti said:

Most of the crew that worked chikara makes me happy. 

The new day are all time favorite because i can relate to all three of them, being a black nerdy dude myself.

I know im in a minority but i always loved the various degeneration x reunions.  

This is also behind my love for New Day. Woods hitting the Final Fantasy victory theme before they introduced themselves is an all-time wrestling moment. In general, I feel like black nerds are having a Renaissance and getting out there and being their best selves. De'Aaron Fox being an unabashed Dragonball fan is another example. I don't even like anime, but I like people living their truth, dammit. 

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Bobby Heenan, FTR, Tully, Arn, Hennig, Bret, Claudio Castignoli, Danielson, Fit Finlay, Ishii, Savage, Scott Hall, Tajiri, Omega, Don Callis, the Bucks (especially heel Bucks), Midnights, the Bulldogs, Benoit, Malenko, Eddie Guerrero, Kingston, Punk, Hangman, Dibiase, Hansen, Misawa, Kawada, Kobashi, Jericho (96-00), Mike Awesome, Cactus, Austin, Rock, Angle, Okerlund, Heyman and Hogan (84-91; 96-98).

EDIT: Owen Hart

Edited by HarryArchieGus
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30 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Sid is one of the best pro wrestlers ever. Can't agree that he sucks. I don't give a shit how bad his punches are, and yes, I know that's sacrilege here at DVDVR.

He has intensity, he just makes you want to run through a wall when he comes out and starts fist-bumping folks, and he knows how to harness that to get over anywhere.

He's one of those guys who would get over in 1970, 1990, 2010, or now. Dudes like that are pro wrestling.

Though he's probably number one on that ol' "coasted on charisma and a dope finisher" list I mentioned earlier. 

Hang this post in The Louvre

 

4M0c.gif

Edited by For Great Justice
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Doing show prep last night, I was watching 1984 Crockett and seeing The American Starship made me think just how weird the careers of Hall and Spivey ended up after that start. That and why is a team named Starship coming out to Prince? 

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3 hours ago, Octopus said:

What wrestler makes you unreasonably happy? Just seeing them in a match and you can help but smile. Whether how the act or their personality or even nostalgia, just the idea of them brings you joy. 

I want to say (write) Terry Funk, but him always putting a smile to my face is not unreasonable, is it?

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1 hour ago, PetrolCB said:

The whole thing is weapons grade awesome...

 

Poor Shawn could have came out with the entire Knicks starting five and the 96 Yankees that just won the World Series three weeks earlier, and he still would have been booed.

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1 hour ago, PetrolCB said:

The whole thing is weapons grade awesome...

 

I still love that Sid looked genuinely surprised by the 10 foot tall S I D as he enters the ring.  

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Sid looked otherworldly. Genuinely larger than life, and those kind of talents are exceptionally rare - perhaps generational. No “big men” debutants have carried themselves like Sid in the past 10-15 years.

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On 3/13/2022 at 7:02 AM, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Oh, I had no idea what everybody was talking about with the “Butch” stuff until now.

buenas_noches-DMID1-5g6y2fym4-480x204.gi

Love the pronunciation of "Booch" in that film, too.

Edited by nate
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I think the other thing with Sid is that when he lost, he lost credibly. It wasn't like most other big men who got beat by big boots or clotheslines because they were too big to take the other guys' finish. Sid was still able to go up for Taker's tombstone or Nash's jackknife where need be. 

Alternatively, he slipped on a banana peel and lost because he had half the brain that they did.

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I remember seeing Sid on an ECW commercial for Living Dangerously '99. Me and my brothers went to my Neighbors house who had PPV to watch it. It was our first ECW show we watched because of Sid of all people. The PPV was dope but for people that were only exposed to WWF and WCW it was like a different universe from that independent Wrestling type smart audience and Hip Hop and Rock type hype videos and nevermind just the Wrestling style.

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I think I read 4 pages without comprehending a word because I could not believe that folks named DiBiase, Roberts and Rude for their least memorable workers. I don't want it to be my only gimmick, but y'all make me feel OLD. Watch any of those ICON's matches (or especially feuds) BEFORE the WWF and you will learn. Dibiase was over and a workhorse, Roberts was a master of psychology as heel or babyface or tweener, and Rude -- well, he did cruise on charisma, style and a finisher there for a bit, but the man could work and had presence, especially live.

Now I like Mike Rotundo but I will not dispute his pick for some. He is of that class of workers that it wasn't that "you had to see his early stuff", it's more that he was more effective, I believe (esp. as a babyface), when he was younger. He grew up, and never really evoved. A young'un who uses veteran moves (the whole technical amateur wrestler gimmick) is great, a vet who wrestles like a vet irregardless of most-recent-gimmick is less charming. The man could go, tho'.

As a passionate human, there are not too many wrestlers that I don't have a bit of a reaction to, but I would be hard-pressed to recall when Slick, Axl Rotten, Gangrel, Teijo Khan, or Warlord stirred a feeling from me.

However, for workers that delight & inspire & enervate me, I can rattle off many, and then be overwhelmed with regret an minute/hour/day/week later at the many I forgot:

The Sheepherders

Kevin Sullivan

Capt. Lou

The Grand Wizard

Fred Blassie

Stevie Richards

Horsemen Era Ric Flair

Terry Funk

Mike Jackson

Eddie Guerrero

Jimmy Valiant

Sabu

Buxx Belmar

Perry Saturn

Patti Pep

Big Van Vader

Midnight Express (any iteration, bonus points for JC)

Oleg the Usurper

Mike Jackson

The Great Kabuki w/Gary Hart

Claudio Castagnoli

Cactus Jack

Tully Blanchard w/JJ Dillion

Ron Bass w/JJ Dillion

Muta (esp. in the USA)

Tajiri

The Wild Samoans

Umaga

... I could go on ...

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8 hours ago, Octopus said:

What wrestler makes you unreasonably happy? Just seeing them in a match and you can help but smile. Whether how the act or their personality or even nostalgia, just the idea of them brings you joy. 

Love this question, too.

In the spirit of overthinking everything, I wanna focus on "unreasonably"

 There are a whole lot of wrestlers where I think it's reasonable if they make you maximally happy: Liger, Eddie, Kobashi, Bryan, Savage, Terry Funk, Andre, and on and on.

Then there's a special sub-category of pro wrestlers who, if it were not for the Death Valley Driver Video Review, you might think you were alone in loving their work (and at least in my case, might never otherwise have discovered): Johnny Saint, Negro Casas, Volk Han, Shinobu Kandori, and so on.

in my case, there are also wrestlers with whom I have a personal connection (like John Tenta, Asian Cooger, Daisuke Harada -basically anyone who was in the Vancouver territory in the 1980s or the Vancouver indies from 2005 through 2009 or Osaka Pro from 2009 through 2012 - and so on) and I mark out unreasonably any time I see any of them. 

And the famous wrestlers I have met who were unusually kind to me: Abdullah, Hokuto, Chono, Akiyama, Bryan, Bob Sapp, Onita, and so on...

So that narrows my list down considerably, if I eliminate all of them. But my list is still at least as long as the good reverend's

So, a top 5 of pro wrestlers where I think I mark out more for them than most of you do:

El Felino  

Manabu Nakanishi

Bear Country

Kantaro Hoshino

Les Kellett

 

Edited by Gordlow
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22 hours ago, Gordlow said:

My honest argument would be that hating a wrestler's work, as you do with Brody's selfishness, as I do with Helmsley's or Inoki's self-conscious self-aggrandizement, can be pretty enjoyable. Particularly when there are people who strongly agree or disagree with your take and there are discussions to be enjoyed as well.

So my take on the question is that it isn't "who have you seen a lot of, that you hate?" so much as " Who have you seen a lot of, that doesn't create much of a response one way or another? "

Overthinking it further: It's probably possible to hate a wrestler (or their work) and not enjoy talking about it at all. That might be worse than just being bored.

Doubling back here, I'd almost argue that it's like god creating a rock too heavy to lift. Even with someone like Randy Orton, he's so beloved by so many other wrestlers that I kind of want to get to the bottom of it, you know? I want to dig in there and make sense of just why they value him so? Is it mechanics? Is it footwork? Is it pacing? Is there something to his strikes that make them particularly easy without actually looking that way? If I'm watching a Randy Orton match, which again, I'm never obliged to watch a Randy Orton match; no one is forcing me; I am not a completionist here... then I'm almost paying more attention and not less because of it.

Same with a Rotunda match. I get his background. He wasn't a fan but he had legitimate skills and he was trained by The Destroyer! I want to figure out what he's trying to accomplish in there, how he thinks it's going to move the fans, where it goes right and how it goes wrong.

Some of that's me and the brain not shutting off, though. If I'm watching a match and reviewing a match especially, a big part of what I'm looking for is what new thing I can learn that I didn't already know. What does this match tell us about the wrestlers or the moment in time or the promotion or the crowd or wrestling in general? And I don't think the answer is ever "nothing."

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