March 2022 Wrestling Discussion

[For Great Justice]

Southern hibachi is indeed delicious. Agree, Mr. Warrior.

[joseph2112]

4 hours ago, NoFistsJustFlips said:

Yes exactly. It should have went down exactly how Hogan put over Goldberg. It should have been a borderline extended squash that had a tiny heat segment with an emphatic win. I don't care if Sting wasn't tan. Or had some personal issues. You built up to that moment for 18 months. You don't get cute with Montreal dusty finish fake outs. You do the right thing and figure out the best way forward with your next move. They didn't punish Sting the performer with that move. They punished their loyal audience that was begging for catharsis.

Put Sting over clean as a sheet. Have Sting come out and talk (for the first time) and say this quest has drained him and he has some personal issues he needs to work on and relinquish the title. Let him go get help. And your audience doesn't feel ripped off. You still get a vacant title. You still can go wherever you want. But you don't piss on your biggest PPV audience of all time.

I agree, and what it really should have been is the start of the unraveling of the NWO. It was already getting bloated and old, and they could have told the story in reverse for 18 months of the slow disintegration of the group, eventually back to Hall and Nash and an independent Hogan. Then move on to something new. Which I know it is hilarious to think of WCW doing something new, but there it is.

[Zakk_Sabbath]

Exactly. You do the NWO civil war a few months early, while on top you have new WCW World Champion Sting vs "Real World Champion" Bret Hart, Deathlock vs Sharpshooter. Send Bret out with the Ron Simmons belt to avoid a lawsuit. It could have been beautiful.

[Jamal]

On 3/6/2022 at 6:59 PM, zendragon said:

Kinda surprised there isn't a noticeably large gay fanbase with how damn camp wrestling is 

Oh, we're here. And many of us are strictly about the women. 

[The Natural]

Still remember this.

[The Natural]

More people will see this here:

Quote

In the latest Wrestling Observer Newsletter, Dave Meltzer has reported that Regal is genuinely dealing with serious health issues, with him opening up about this in an upcoming episode of Talk Is Jericho.

"Regal mentioned about having limited time left… Apparently Regal’s health issues at this stage are far more serious than have ever come out and there is an interview that will be released next week that he did for Talk is Jericho that will detail them."

WebIsJericho.com

This sucks. William Regal is one of the most versatile wrestlers ever from his work in the ring to his promos, can do comedy, commentary and a credible authority figure. Walking a Golden Mile is one of the five best books ever, needs talking up more.

[Log]

14 hours ago, joseph2112 said:

I agree, and what it really should have been is the start of the unraveling of the NWO. It was already getting bloated and old, and they could have told the story in reverse for 18 months of the slow disintegration of the group, eventually back to Hall and Nash and an independent Hogan. Then move on to something new. Which I know it is hilarious to think of WCW doing something new, but there it is.

I worked for a company that did some innovative and creative stuff to move from being a joke to being very successful.  Then, once they got there, they got scared to ever change anything after that point. Just keep doing that one thing that led to the initial success and fear any other options.  It is super-frustrating that WCW ended up like it did, but it's not uncommon.  Hell, my wife is dealing with that currently at her job.  

[HarryArchieGus]

I assume I am one of the few people that does not stand united with the idea that the nWo was too bloated (they should've separated the brand like the plan).  I liked the entire run of additions up til the splinter Hollywood and Wolfpac crews.  Sting and Luger had no business in an nWo group.  The inability to get everybody on the same page to run that team feud was the downfall.  Tho, things were certainly stale prior.  Hindsight and the numbers will disagree with my likes here, but I also thought the fingerpoke was fantastic entertainment.  The aftermath however was awful.  I generally enjoy Nash's chats, but his lack of responsibility and succession of excuses here makes clear, if his broadcasted product didn't already, of his having no business being a head booker.  

EDIT: Tho, I also have a great deal of love for the nWo B team and those fanastic skits.  Which I think is a Nash. 

Edited March 11, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[Log]

9 minutes ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I assume I am one of the few people that does not stand united with the idea that the nWo was too bloated (they should've separated the brand like the plan).  I liked the entire run of additions up til the splinter Hollywood and Wolfpac crews.  Sting and Luger had no business in an nWo group.  The inability to get everybody on the same page to run that team feud was the downfall.  Tho, things were certainly stale prior.  Hindsight and the numbers will disagree with my likes here, but I also thought the fingerpoke was fantastic entertainment.  The aftermath however was awful.  I generally enjoy Nash's chats, but his lack of responsibility and succession of excuses here makes clear, if his broadcasted product didn't already, of his having no business being a head booker.  

EDIT: Tho, I also have a great deal of love for the nWo B team and those fanastic skits.  Which I think is a Nash. 

No, I'm with you on that.  They needed cannon fodder.  It wasn't so much that the nWo got too big, it's that it went too long and got away from what it originally was.  There should've never been a "WCW original" in the group.  No Giant, Luger or Sting.  

[twiztor]

1 hour ago, HarryArchieGus said:

I assume I am one of the few people that does not stand united with the idea that the nWo was too bloated (they should've separated the brand like the plan).  I liked the entire run of additions up til the splinter Hollywood and Wolfpac crews.  Sting and Luger had no business in an nWo group.  The inability to get everybody on the same page to run that team feud was the downfall.  Tho, things were certainly stale prior.  Hindsight and the numbers will disagree with my likes here, but I also thought the fingerpoke was fantastic entertainment.  The aftermath however was awful.  I generally enjoy Nash's chats, but his lack of responsibility and succession of excuses here makes clear, if his broadcasted product didn't already, of his having no business being a head booker.  

EDIT: Tho, I also have a great deal of love for the nWo B team and those fanastic skits.  Which I think is a Nash. 

i agree with all the nWo thoughts. 4 life, brother.
the fingerpoke could have been OK, I think moreso the issue with it is that it came directly after Goldberg's defeat. Nash never faced Goldberg's wrath, so Nash didn't get more over. Hogan had a pretty nothing reign, where he feuded with Ric Flair, so he didn't get more over. Goldberg went on to lesser feuds and kept his popularity, but it didn't elevate him.  The moment was empty and hollow. And still talked about today, for all of the wrong reasons.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

The only bad additions to the team prior to the split were Wallstreet, and Bubba. That was rectified pretty soon after a few months when they mysteriously fell over during a couple of Reservoir Dogs struts by the nWo fixed with, and replaced by the more “Youthful” Norton, and Buff. 
 

Okay, maybe Millionaire Ted wasn’t a good fit, but Vincent was an absolute perfect stooge. It was the right to use him in the clown role with his physique deteriorating so much after his WWF peak.

Edited March 11, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs

[supremebve]

7 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

The only bad additions to the team prior to the split were Wallstreet, and Bubba. That was rectified pretty soon after a few months when they mysteriously fell over during a couple of Reservoir Dogs struts by the nWo fixed with, and replaced by the more “Youthful” Norton, and Buff.

Since you brought up Wallstreet,  I have a question for the board.  Who is the wrestler you've watched the most, but enjoyed the least? My two choices are Mike Rotonda or Billy Gunn. I'm pretty sure the best match I've seen either of them in was the dumpster match at Wrestlemania XIV. That's a good match,  but Billy Gunn's contribution has pretty much zero to do with the quality of that match. 

[HarryArchieGus]

I thought Teddy was the perfect benefactor.  It was Bischoff's involvement that rendered Dibiase useless - tho, it didn't need to be that way.  I get dissatisfaction with Ray Traylor and Rotunda, but they fit fine considering it was a 'WWF' invasion.  Neither of those guys were given anything to do which was a shame.  Vicious and Delicious were nice additions.  A lot of people seem to forget how incredibly entertaining Bagwell was during that run.  And Vincent earned every penny of his WCW contract.  

36 minutes ago, twiztor said:

i agree with all the nWo thoughts. 4 life, brother.
the fingerpoke could have been OK, I think moreso the issue with it is that it came directly after Goldberg's defeat. Nash never faced Goldberg's wrath, so Nash didn't get more over. Hogan had a pretty nothing reign, where he feuded with Ric Flair, so he didn't get more over. Goldberg went on to lesser feuds and kept his popularity, but it didn't elevate him.  The moment was empty and hollow. And still talked about today, for all of the wrong reasons.

True.  

[LoneWolf&Subs]

@supremebve
Alex Wright is one. Except for looks, I never saw what people saw in him in his younger days. Such a sloppy ass rookie, and later as a pushed guy. Jake Roberts is another. Greatest talkers ever, greatest finisher ever, but if he don’t hit that DDT, then watching a Jake match feels like a fucking waste. It’s like watching a Card’s game, and Big MaC doesn’t hit a homer.

Edited March 11, 2022 by LoneWolf&Subs

[supremebve]

2 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

Alex Wright is one. Except for looks, I never saw what people saw in him in his younger days. Such a sloppy ass rookie, and later as a pushed guy. Jake Roberts is another. Greatest talkers ever, greatest finishers ever, but if he don’t hit that DDT, then watching a Jake match feels like a fucking waste. It’s like watching a Card’s game, and Big MaC doesn’t hit a homer.

Jake is a good one. He was one of my favorites when I was a kid,  but nothing that I've watched since has been interesting at all. That man loves arm ringers and short arm clotheslines. Alex Wright wasn't around long enough to count for me. Billy Gun had been on national television since 1993 and has done nothing special for that entire time. 

[Zakk_Sabbath]

17 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Since you brought up Wallstreet,  I have a question for the board.  Who is the wrestler you've watched the most, but enjoyed the least? My two choices are Mike Rotonda or Billy Gunn. I'm pretty sure the best match I've seen either of them in was the dumpster match at Wrestlemania XIV. That's a good match,  but Billy Gunn's contribution has pretty much zero to do with the quality of that match. 

I hate to say it with his recent run of bad luck, but it has to be HHH for me. Some of his matches from that "reign of terror" era were absolutely unwatchable.

[JLowe]

22 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Since you brought up Wallstreet,  I have a question for the board.  Who is the wrestler you've watched the most, but enjoyed the least? My two choices are Mike Rotonda or Billy Gunn. I'm pretty sure the best match I've seen either of them in was the dumpster match at Wrestlemania XIV. That's a good match,  but Billy Gunn's contribution has pretty much zero to do with the quality of that match. 

It's well known in the AEW folder that I dislike Billy Gunn, but his work managing the Ass Boys has me hating him less. And either way, I've never enjoyed a second of anything Road Dogg has done in ring or otherwise, he's...

[Zimbra]

20 minutes ago, supremebve said:

Since you brought up Wallstreet,  I have a question for the board.  Who is the wrestler you've watched the most, but enjoyed the least? My two choices are Mike Rotonda or Billy Gunn. I'm pretty sure the best match I've seen either of them in was the dumpster match at Wrestlemania XIV. That's a good match,  but Billy Gunn's contribution has pretty much zero to do with the quality of that match. 

I saw a lot of Rockin' Rebel matches and didn't enjoy a single one.  Buff Bagwell has to be up there, too.

[supremebve]

6 minutes ago, Zakk_Sabbath said:

I hate to say it with his recent run of bad luck, but it has to be HHH for me. Some of his matches from that "reign of terror" era were absolutely unwatchable.

HHH's run in 2000 is the reason he's not on my list. He was legitimately great from Rumble 2000 up until he blew out the quad. He's had good matches here and there since,  but he's been a net negative in my eyes for every year but 2000.

[LoneWolf&Subs]

9 minutes ago, Zimbra said:

Buff Bagwell has to be up there, too.

That early nWo run is really great though. Dude was super motivated before the freak injury.

[Zimbra]

2 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

That early nWo run is really great though. Dude was super motivated before the freak injury.

I got back into WCW right around the time he got injured so I apparently missed out on all the good stuff.

My enduring memory of Buff is him having a match with Booker T on Raw that was so bad they just wrote him out of the invasion angle.

[Eivion]

4 hours ago, The Natural said:

More people will see this here:

This sucks. William Regal is one of the most versatile wrestlers ever from his work in the ring to his promos, can do comedy, commentary and a credible authority figure. Walking a Golden Mile is one of the five best books ever, needs talking up more.

 

[SirSmUgly]

Rotunda was never good. I watched that Varsity Club stuff a few years ago for the first time since childhood, and he wasn't any good then either. He was the far-lesser tag partner of both Barry Windham (which, okay, Windham is pretty great) and Ted DiBiase (not so okay since DiBiase is another guy who I think sort of isn't that good, which probably is controversial).

I had expectations for Rotunda in the '80s that didn't pan out. Same thing with DiBiase - I ended up watching a bunch of All Japan and Watts stuff and I think he sort of sucks then, too. Like, Hacksaw was definitely good, and maybe would have been someone I mentioned to answer that question before I saw him in Mid-South. Actually, JYD is another guy who I might have mentioned if not for watching a bunch of Mid-South. Watts had those guys being awesome brawlers, but DiBiase still stunk. 

Bagwell is mediocre a lot of his career, but he was at least a decent fiery babyface and the tag team with Scorp was fun. Scorp makes everything fun, though. And yeah, from his heel turn on Riggs to the neck injury, he was legitimately good. 

Not to go all FSW (RIP), but I've seen more than enough of CM Punk's career at this point to stick him on the back-end of my personal list. He's probably got the biggest gap between a typical fan's opinion of him and my opinion of him of any wrestler that I can think of. 

[HarryArchieGus]

40 minutes ago, LoneWolf&Subs said:

@supremebve
Alex Wright is one. Except for looks, I never saw what people saw in him in his younger days. Such a sloppy ass rookie, and later as a pushed guy. Jake Roberts is another. Greatest talkers ever, greatest finisher ever, but if he don’t hit that DDT, then watching a Jake match feels like a fucking waste. It’s like watching a Card’s game, and Big MaC doesn’t hit a homer.

Interesting.  I don't think I've ever met an actual Alex Wright fan.  Other than my pals and I whom got a kick out of his tag run with Disco Inferno.  I really want to disagree on Jake Roberts, but I have never gone back to watch the matches I grew up with nor have I been compelled to. 

@Zakk_Sabbath100% on Helmsley.  I feel no shame in saying how much I despised his post-quad tear run on top.  Prior to that he was fine, but rarely somebody whom I looked forward to seeing.  Especially with a mic in his hand.  The post quad-tear top heel run alongside his wife's promos, and overall dogshit WWE creative, was what led me to leave this great sport behind for 15 years.

Edited March 11, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[DEAN]

3 minutes ago, SirSmellingtonofCascadia said:

Rotunda was never good. I watched that Varsity Club stuff a few years ago for the first time since childhood, and he wasn't any good then either. He was the far-lesser tag partner of both Barry Windham (which, okay, Windham is pretty great) and Ted DiBiase (not so okay since DiBiase is another guy who I think sort of isn't that good, which probably is controversial).

Ted DiBiase was maybe the best wrestler in the world in 1985.