Dynamite - 2/23/2022

[HarryArchieGus]

9 hours ago, JLowe said:

Seeing everyone's takes on this promo is interesting, because I was very confused and I hated it. The best thing this company has done, out of many great things, is have one guy be an actual, old-school, living the gimmick heel. I don't need his villain origin story, I just need a cocky cowardly heel who cheats and then says he's better than everybody. That's it. Wrestling 101.

Furthermore, by going deeply personal into anti-Semitic bullying, IF he ends up swerving everyone, saying it's bullshit, and cheating, WOW, you've set up some truly horrid shit there. I'd like to think that an AEW crowd wouldn't chant slurs, but they're also about to make a big swing into Texas. There is a whole lot of nuance that has to be worked very. very carefully to tell this story that some of you are suggesting (using his own weaknesses to elicit sympathy from Punk so he'll hesitate to take the kill shot), and considering how ineffective Hollywood has been at this of late, I'm not sure that even two talented talkers and entertainers like Punk and MJF will be able to pull it off.

So many interesting takes on this promo.  Also, kudos to @Matt D per usual.  

9 hours ago, EVA said:

Re: the anti-Semitic part of the angle

 While MJF has shown that there isn’t much he won’t do for heat, it seems like his Jewish identity is important to him IRL, and I think he’s even talked about facing anti-Semitism in the past. So my instinct is that he wouldn’t trivialize it by doing an angle where he lies about it. People believing anti-Semitism isn’t real is actually a real problem, and we don’t need pro wrestling angles that play into that with wrestling’s most-prominent (?) outwardly Jewish character. I’m choosing to believe that everyone involved, especially MJF, is smart enough to realize that.

My Jewish lady friend, who really likes young Max, keeps an eye on him in part because he does play into some lightly questionable Jewish stereotypes.  The most recent example being Max's greedy scheming over getting paid by Andrade - the FTR angle.  She wasn't watching last night, but I did cringe a little with her in mind - mostly for the worry of where it might end up.  That said, again, for any worries or shortcomings, I thought it was an ambitious and well executed promo.  I also get the crowd that says 'this doesn't make me want to see a bloody match now'.  But... there's some time to go before we reach the Revolution.  Time will tell.  Trusting these two with this kind of sensitive material certainly seems fair.  

Edited February 25, 2022 by HarryArchieGus

[TheVileOne]

So much panic over last week's numbers for nothing. The numbers pendulum as they tend to do.

Has anyone forgotten that Nielsen is a sampling? It's pure estimates at the end of the day. It is not a good system, but it's a system that continues to get used because it's all we have. 

The greater worry would be if they drop and continue to drop and never go back up. 

Even with the drops last week, AEW was still No. 3 in the cable TV ratings. So it's not like the show did awful numbers. 

[eikerir]

Good show that could’ve been much more enjoyable with a better crowd. Random thoughts as usual:

 

Opening Battle Royal got really fun when it came down to all the single team members. The finish was somewhat expected with some sort of double cross between The Bucks and ReDragon, but Kyle played it off so smoothly and perfectly.

Loved the post match brawl still acknowledging the past history between so many of these guys and I really digged Page’s cowboy tale style of promo, it all came off really well and I like the “open world” feel that AEW has with so many people involved with each other instead of living in a small feud bubble.

 

 

MJF’s promo was something, I never got 100% into it because I kept expecting him to eventually turn it around into his usual dickhead promo but was a nice twist that it didn’t. Punk comimg out and just asking “is it real or not?” without having to say it into a mic came off really well too.

 

 

Warms my heart to see the massive pops and ovations that Eddie has been getting lately. And I popped out loud in real life when he called Jericho’s bullshit line and said “what’s a baby face?”. It’s been driving me crazy how some guys say baby face or heel during promos. Bad guys don’t wake up and think “oh well, another day of being a heel”, they’re just dickheads by nature. Kingston HAS to win this feud.

 

 

The crowd got into the TBS title match near the end, but I thought Jade looked terrible tonight. She seemed lost most of the match, her timing was off with almost everything (including her attempts at talking shit post match) and that kick out was embarrassing. Not her best night.

 

LMAO at Starks saying hello to Keith Lee.

 

 

Main event was good but I feel they could have a proper classic if given more time in the future. Loved them elbowing each other whilst holding hands and that counter to the Dragon Screw Leg Whip leading directly into the finish was smooth AF.

Letting Wild Thing play during the entire post match brawl was such a good choice, gave it so much more energy. Bryan and Mox in the ring give off this real big fucking stars vibe when they’re in there just staring at each other. Good shit.

 

 

 

 

Edited February 24, 2022 by eikerir

[Horatio]

Has anyone mentioned the awesomeness of a Danielson vs 2.0 fight-forever-we-just-can't-be-friends possibility? 

I mean, Danielson has never disappointed me, but he's never been my favorite either (vanilla is my favorite, too, btw). I originally thought pairing with  2.0 was a good idea; however, the booking of the two blandest guys to come along SINCE Danielson started, wanting to get in HIS face and fight over whose vanilla has the highest alcohol content makes TOO MUCH SENSE. Garcia has to eventually find his way out of this.

[JLowe]

2 minutes ago, Horatio said:

Has anyone mentioned the awesomeness of a Danielson vs 2.0 fight-forever-we-just-can't-be-friends possibility? 

I mean, Danielson has never disappointed me, but he's never been my favorite either (vanilla is my favorite, too, btw). I originally thought pairing with  2.0 was a good idea; however, the booking of the two blandest guys to come along SINCE Danielson started, wanting to get in HIS face and fight over whose vanilla has the highest alcohol content makes TOO MUCH SENSE. Garcia has to eventually find his way out of this.

I mean, Garcia is basically Lance Storm with a Masshole accent.

[Horatio]

1 minute ago, JLowe said:

I mean, Garcia is basically Lance Storm with a Masshole accent.

Based on what I saw last night, I think he knows Danielson might be the one guy he's not willing to poke in the eye...2.0 came off as credible enough, but oblivious at the same time.

[John E. Dynamite]

Bugging me all day thinking of who Abrahantes reminded me of. Thanks, honey

.

 

[Wyld Samurai]

1 hour ago, JLowe said:

I mean, Garcia is basically Lance Storm with a Masshole accent.

Lance Storm had a much sweeter 'do.

[Peck]

5 hours ago, Casey said:

You be the judge.

 

I'd be SO pissed if my mom didn't know the difference between "your" and "you're"

[Swift]

20 hours ago, NikoBaltimore said:

Okay, that just so happening to be their first names never registered with me like that but is making me laugh.  It would have been corny to match them up for that reason but thankfully that had nothing to do with anything.

re: Daniel/Bryan

It's weird really. So Bryan Danielson, AKA Daniel Bryan, is married to Brianna Garcia. And then 8 years later along comes ickle Daniel Garcia. Daniel's son, innit.

[AxB]

21 minutes ago, Swift said:

re: Daniel/Bryan

It's weird really. So Bryan Danielson, AKA Daniel Bryan, is married to Brianna Garcia. And then 8 years later along comes ickle Daniel Garcia. Daniel's son, innit.

Within the context of WWE storyline lore, her name is now Brianna Bryan.

[EVA]

[JLowe]

32 minutes ago, Peck said:

I'd be SO pissed if my mom didn't know the difference between "your" and "you're"

If you saw his WrestlingClassics Instagram comment, she didn’t teach him the difference between “their” and “there” 

[John from Cincinnati]

16 minutes ago, JLowe said:

If you saw his WrestlingClassics Instagram comment, she didn’t teach him the difference between “their” and “there” 

Punk's gonna scoop Max and drop him with the grammar slam.

 

[nate]

8 hours ago, Log said:

This MJF thing is so weird because usually "shooty" stuff is presented with a big "HEY LOOK! I'M SHOOTING HERE!"  That promo wasn't.  Like others, I kept waiting for the "gotcha!" from him when Punk came out. 

I can't tell if this was a cynical ploy to soften Punk or a change in direction for the MJF character.  Maybe he comes out at the PPV and gets all gritty and fights his ass off?  Or maybe Punk drops his guard and he's all "That was all true, but you've lost your edge!  The old Punk wouldn't have softened for some sob story."?  

Like I said earlier, ultimately, the success or failure of that promo is going to hinge on where they go from here.

That last bit summarizes what my earlier point was.  It may have been misconstrued as an assumption that MJF was "faking," but I was more intrigued by the concept that the story is true but can still be used as psychological mat warfare.

 

[zendragon]

1 hour ago, AxB said:

Within the context of WWE storyline lore, her name is now Brianna Bryan.

From the company that brought you Pat Patterson, Ken Kennedy and Kelly Kelly.

 

Re: MJF promo. I would imagine its "real" but its what's sent him down the dark path.  But maybe he's so forgone there's no way to bring him back, and he's willing to use this to get CM Punk off his game.

[Horatio]

20 minutes ago, zendragon said:

From the company that brought you Pat Patterson, Ken Kennedy and Kelly Kelly.

 

Re: MJF promo. I would imagine its "real" but its what's sent him down the dark path.  But maybe he's so forgone there's no way to bring him back, and he's willing to use this to get CM Punk off his game.

This is the only way I can see them justifying that promo, which was just awkward and a little too long in my opinion (the tears were something else entirely, I mean, wow). I want to see MJF go batshit crazy from here. I want to see Raven-esque doctor visits. I want to see Raven and his sister come in to warn him about what happens if he doesn't take his meds. I want to see him get locked up in a straight-jacket. I don't care if it happens every week. That promo last night was deep waters and it may require desperate measures to make it all worth it.

[Go2Sleep]

What a show for promos.

MJF's was an all-timer. I really hope they don't do a "work" and have him say he made it all up to get heat. The fact that I was waiting for him to just obliterate Punk after "Is it true" and it never came was the right kind of swerve. I love the idea of 2 epic dickhead promo guys going at it for weeks, but instead of never ending escalation of dickheadery, one guy actually finally cuts deep. If they managed a double turn out of this feud, it would be the most epic since (and possibly, possibly greater than) Bret/Austin.

Jericho was great as the condescending prick too. Definitely one of his finer AEW promos.

Dragon and Mox at the end was suitably intense and made me even more pumped about their match.

Starks little cut off on Keith Lee followed by the Lee/Hobbs stare-down was easy to overlook, but would stand out as awesome on a lesser show.

Only thing I didn't like was the Death Triangle/HoB segment. Penta Oscuro is a million times better name than el Zero Miedo, but what was the point of debuting a "new" gimmick only to get a roll-up win (although Malakai choking on the mist was a cool kayfabe twist on that spot) and then get killed post-match? The whole thing would've made a lot more sense if Penta turned on Pac before the match as the third man, then Buddy showed up to even the odds. Buddy with Pac and Fenix makes more sense than him with HoB, but the 6-mans will be awesome either way, I guess.

[Guest Jimbo_Tsuruta]

4 hours ago, zendragon said:

From the company that brought you Pat Patterson, Ken Kennedy and Kelly Kelly.

 

Re: MJF promo. I would imagine its "real" but its what's sent him down the dark path.  But maybe he's so forgone there's no way to bring him back, and he's willing to use this to get CM Punk off his game.

Get your point but he was Pat Patterson before he reached the WWWF

[TheVileOne]

As a born and raised Jewish person, I personally didn't see anything in MJF's promo or this angle as anti-Semitic. He is playing mind games with Punk and he is trying to break Punk's spirit by telling the truth, but that's not anti-Semitic. Punk tried to get in MJF's head last week with the personal biz, and MJF struck back this week. Also, MJF didn't allow this to become some goofy heel beatdown gimmick. I'm not going to say they ended that segment with class, but I think they booked it to perfection with the way Punk came out and then MJF left. 

If we're going to talk about truly tasteless and vile, racist, derogatory garbage in wrestling, IMHO, this doesn't even rank in the top 100. 

Now as a Jewish person, I get being on guard and sensitive to certain things and not wanting to stereotype or be reductive toward prejudiced or marginalized groups, especially in wrestling which has frequently not had the best track record with this type of subject matter for decades. At the same time, I don't think any particular subject matter should necessarily be off-limits for storytelling for those reasons alone. 

[SturmCRF]

Another Jewpinion chipping in here. MJF's character as a whole has always made me a biiiit uncomfortable, what with leaning into his background as part of his character, while that character is also a rich, conniving manipulator.

I wouldn't want him not to be a heel when he's so natural at it, or be open about his heritage when he's proud of it. But also, I've known real life MJF's who had overly lavish Bar Mitzvahs, were brash and obnoxious and were massive bullies, so him doing such a good job of embodying an unpleasant anti semitic stereotype I have actually encountered, isn't exactly fun wrestling escapism a lot of the time. And again, to clarify, I'm Jewish, so hopefully that gives me some leeway to have resented fellow Jews who made my life miserable growing up, and whose worst qualities MJF has turned into a compelling heel persona.

A bit of a different perspective from those of you who experienced direct anti semitism from non Jews, which I never have, outside of my actual friends parroting Cartman lines at me and such, and possible unspoken motivations lurking in the subconscious of non-friends who were picking on me anyway because I had red hair and liked Warhammer.

All that being said, the main thing that bothered me about Wednesday's promo was the crowd reaction. 'Do we have any Jews in the house?' definitely seemed to get some boos, and I hope it's just a wrestling crowd conditioned to boo because a heel says a thing, I may even have heard what I feared hearing rather than the actual noise those people made, but these days it's tough not to expect the worst. Again, it's hard to put too much blame on MJF. I didn't like it, but nobody, whatever character they play on TV, should feel like they shouldn't be vocal about who they are because it might get the bigots riled up, so I suppose on reflection I'm not against any of MJF's choices.

[MoeCristyV.1.6]

Sooooo... The finish of MJF vs Punk has to be a shot with a roll of quarters, right? 

[Horatio]

5 hours ago, Go2Sleep said:

 

Only thing I didn't like was the Death Triangle/HoB segment. Penta Oscuro is a million times better name than el Zero Miedo, but what was the point of debuting a "new" gimmick only to get a roll-up win (although Malakai choking on the mist was a cool kayfabe twist on that spot) and then get killed post-match? The whole thing would've made a lot more sense if Penta turned on Pac before the match as the third man, then Buddy showed up to even the odds. Buddy with Pac and Fenix makes more sense than him with HoB, but the 6-mans will be awesome either way, I guess.

I thought Penta was playing headgames: pretend to be in ultraviolent mode/work light/block the mist/get the win. I am even thinking the poisonrana was a ruse. 

With Buddy, they're definitely going with continuity of Buddy knowing he can't beat Black and he's still just a follower at heart.

What was confusing is when Penta did a crossbody only to lay around ineffectively afterwards. AND he took the headstomp on the chair, but when the lights returned, he was crawling to cover up Pac. Did we miss something?

[Brandon Bones]

I’m sure for some viewers even the mention of a religious… thing … is going to cause some level discomfort.  
 

If you’re an atheist.  You might be like “The fuck is this shit doing here.”

If you’re religious.  You might be worried if that religion or those who follow it are being represented satisfactorily.  
 

Weird thing about me is, I’m an atheist who isn’t at all bothered that a Jewish man decided to incorporate that part of his actual life into his representative television character.  Is it weird?  
 

In my life I’ve not seen the culture I live in handle these kinds of things particularly well.  When Vince was going to fight “God” at the ppv.  I dismissed it as dumb and “asking for trouble”.  That could have gone much worse.  

Fortunately, it ended up being just dumb when a spotlight only wresting entrance turned it into a Mr. Show sketch.  DEFCON 1 averted.  
 

Madonna dancing in front of some burning crosses selling Pepsi?  Everybody Panic!!!  It’s almost worth it to not incorporate those kinds of ideas at all just to avoid the backlash.  
 

Meh.  I’m on board with the hope that whatever happens at the ppv.  It will do something to put a contextual focus on what it all amounts to.  

 

[JLowe]

To be clear, my concerns with the anti-Semitic bullying motivation angle are:

1. Wrestling storytelling isn't known for execution of nuance

2. Wrestling plays heavily into stereotypes because they stereotypical wrestling audience is prejudiced.

I recognize that AEW is generally a little better at these things, but it's still requiring a lot of faith (pun intended).

Edited February 25, 2022 by JLowe